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Wobbiest: Three Laws Safe
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1 - Why do we assume that the universe is the largest unit of matter? We can say that matter has to be made up of an infinite amount of the building blocks. Matter consists of matter afterall. Down to atoms, quarks, etc. Still matter. So why do we end on the universe? How can a rational cosmologist believe this?? I cant understand how there cant be many universes. And then many super-universes in in a mega-universe, etc, etc.

2 - Or if above is flawed, then who is to say that the visible light we see from the "end of the universe" isnt either
A) That our cluster of stars, galaxies, etc was created in a place and time that has only allowed to 13.7 billion years of light to reach us.
or
B) If the universe is expanding, then who is to say that the matter past 13.7 billion years is traveling FASTER than the speed of light? We would never see that light. This question of matter being faster than light is still unanswered.
and
C) if B has merit, than you cant measure the universe in visible light and theoretically it could be infinite.

Clearly these branch from the big bang theory. Just curious to thoughts - I'm not a physicist or cosmologist by any stretch. But certainly a space nut.
 

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Because the universe literally means include everything. Much in the way that infinity is the highest number. Infinity plus one is higher, but that will be the new infinity. If we discover there is more than just what we see, then that will be encompassed as well in the definition of the universe.
 

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NFA Pimp
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We can't prove that there is another universe... yet. String theory, from all what I have seen on TV is the answer, but what the hell do I know? I am not a physicist. :lol:

The one thing I have always wondered is how do they know the definite age of the universe? All those came from something smaller then a atom? Then all of a sudden, in a billionth of a billionth of a second, we have this massive ever expanding universe? How do we know we didn't spawn off from another universe?
 

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W.W.Kano.D.
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This may answer your question, maybe not; but the Universe applies to our current model of the cosmos. We DO have many scientists speculating Multiverse and Many-Worlds Hypothesis, so I'm not sure what you mean by this. If we do take into account the Multiverse model and we suppose that this model entails infinite logical possibilities, then, we would conclude that there needs to be an infinite amount of matter, along with an unmeasurable amount of time.

Interesting thread BTW...
 

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2 - Or if above is flawed, then who is to say that the visible light we see from the "end of the universe" isnt either
A) That our cluster of stars, galaxies, etc was created in a place and time that has only allowed to 13.7 billion years of light to reach us.
or
B) If the universe is expanding, then who is to say that the matter past 13.7 billion years is traveling FASTER than the speed of light? We would never see that light. This question of matter being faster than light is still unanswered.
and
C) if B has merit, than you cant measure the universe in visible light and theoretically it could be infinite.
I've read that the 13.7 billion years of light is simply the visible universe for us but I am trying to remember how it was explained that the age of the universe is still 13.7 billion years. I'll come back if I can remember how to explain it.

As for part B nothing can exceed the speed of light according to the theory of relativity.
 

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W.W.Kano.D.
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I've read that the 13.7 billion years of light is simply the visible universe for us but I am trying to remember how it was explained that the age of the universe is still 13.7 billion years. I'll come back if I can remember how to explain it.

As for part B nothing can exceed the speed of light according to the theory of relativity.
From the little I understand, if we presuppose the Big Bang and take into account the expanding universe, then, the visible light of the expanding galaxies gives us the age of the universe.
 

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Ludicrous speed! GO!
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1 - Why do we assume that the universe is the largest unit of matter? We can say that matter has to be made up of an infinite amount of the building blocks. Matter consists of matter afterall. Down to atoms, quarks, etc. Still matter. So why do we end on the universe? How can a rational cosmologist believe this?? I cant understand how there cant be many universes. And then many super-universes in in a mega-universe, etc, etc.

2 - Or if above is flawed, then who is to say that the visible light we see from the "end of the universe" isnt either
A) That our cluster of stars, galaxies, etc was created in a place and time that has only allowed to 13.7 billion years of light to reach us.
or
B) If the universe is expanding, then who is to say that the matter past 13.7 billion years is traveling FASTER than the speed of light? We would never see that light. This question of matter being faster than light is still unanswered.
and
C) if B has merit, than you cant measure the universe in visible light and theoretically it could be infinite.

Clearly these branch from the big bang theory. Just curious to thoughts - I'm not a physicist or cosmologist by any stretch. But certainly a space nut.
1. Suppose that you had a body that was immensely enormous in size like the universe. The gravity that would be generated would cause such a body to collapse into a supermassive blackhole. Take for instance our Sun. The fusion reaction is nothing more than a bomb that has been going off for billions of years, this balances out the power of gravity which wants to compress all that matter into a singularity. What force would balance such an enormous solid body like the universe from collapsing?

2a. 13.7 billion years is the average number for the age of the universe. We still don't know our position in the universe, so it would be hard to say exactly how old it is. Even if we were at the approximate center of the universe, light that is coming from the edge of the universe would only be about 6.8 billion years old. But you have to realize something though, if we accept the Big Bang Theory, there wouldn't be any stars/suns at the very creation of the universe. All matter is too far spread out as a giant massive gas cloud. It would take hundreds of millions if not billions of years for gravity to bring matter together to form stars.

2b. Ah this is where your noodle will begin to cook. What lies outside our universe? What if our universe was actually simply a concept created with no bounderies to constrain growth? What I mean is this: the universe already exists as an unfathomable body, and at the very center is the singularity which will create all that there is, and we have bound *our* "universe" to the simple definition reaching back in time defined as the Big Bang, and it is actually bigger than we can ever imagine.

My proof is theoretical. When the Big Bang occurred, the matter and energy that came forth had be contained in this thing called the universe. So at the very minimum, to allow matter and energy to exist at this point in time, the universe would have to expand at, the very least, the speed of light, but it is also possible that the universe was already in place, and all the matter and energy from the BB was just filling it up. The universe cannot collapse because the energy from the BB is still moving away from the center of the "universe." One of the laws of thermodynamics states just this, energy cannot be destroyed.

Unfortunately we won't be able to see the light from the very beginning of the big bang because that light is radiating outwards from us and there is no matter in front of it to reflect it back to us.

2c. Theoretically, the universe is infinite. It cannot collapse because the energy from the BB is still radiating outwards from us. One of the laws of thermodynamics, if correct, prevents energy from being destroyed. What would happen if the universe did collapse and that energy, no matter how miniscule, had nowhere to go? What would happen to that energy? Would it create a paradox that destroys the universe? We don't know, and more than likely we will never know.
 

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Wobbiest: Three Laws Safe
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6,137 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
1. Suppose that you had a body that was immensely enormous in size like the universe. The gravity that would be generated would cause such a body to collapse into a supermassive blackhole. Take for instance our Sun. The fusion reaction is nothing more than a bomb that has been going off for billions of years, this balances out the power of gravity which wants to compress all that matter into a singularity. What force would balance such an enormous solid body like the universe from collapsing?
Gravity is a weak force. Why not a gravity like force, only stronger. What about a dark matter? What about a space/time fabric that is similar to our own understanding of it. Just because we dont know there is that force, doesnt mean it is not there. And I cant understand based on current knowledge of infinite breakdown of matter, that the universe is the end.


Awesome post btw.
 

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Ludicrous speed! GO!
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Gravity is a weak force. Why not a gravity like force, only stronger. What about a dark matter? What about a space/time fabric that is similar to our own understanding of it. Just because we dont know there is that force, doesnt mean it is not there. And I cant understand based on current knowledge of infinite breakdown of matter, that the universe is the end.


Awesome post btw.
Gravity is the weakest of the four forces yes... but ...

On a quantum scale, the other three forces are more powerful than gravity.
On an astronomical scale, gravity is the most powerful and the other three are the weakest.

Herein lies the problem, Einstein and other physicists cannot come up with a model that will unify all four forces in whats called the Theory of Everything because gravity is virtually absent on a quantum scale. Its like trying to weigh light, can't be done because light is energy and energy has no mass.

It would be awesome if there were more than the four forces, but with our current and limited understanding, we have yet to discover more. Its going to take another Newton, Einstein or Hawking to make the quantum leap forward.
 
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