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Its right by the clutch pedal. Just disconnect the clip and connect the wires together. Easy as that.
Thanks VB !
I was thinking of putting a momentary switch somewhere handy to the key so that it would remind me to put the car in neutral and brake before turning the engine over. Even better would be a photo electric switch or similar on the gearshift so it was a closed contact when in neutral.
I will post something if I get it done.
 

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I have read this thread front to back. Forgive my bump but I feel that a previous question about whether or not SouthBend clutches are a safer bet than most wasn't really answered.

I wish I had discovered this thread some time ago. There is one other major SF thread on crankwalk and I did read up on that one some years back well before I began my engine build. It was enough to convince me to disable my SC's neutral safety switch as soon as I installed my R154 transmission. But at the time I had a stock NA 2JZ-GE and all I needed clutch-wise was a cheap OEM MKIII Turbo clutch kit.

Fast forward to now. I've built a bone-stock 2JZGTE. Completely stock other than ARP head bolts. It's only at stock boost also. The most boring 2JZGTE possible. But I still needed a better clutch than the OEM 7MGTE kit. So after a lot of research I went with a SouthBend Stage 2 Daily. Just as with the strict engine break-in I followed the 750-850 mile break-in from SB. It didn't quite hold the power so SB suggested a Stage 3 daily kit for the R154. It... mostly holds the power in most situations but not all situations. I've run that SB Stage 3 kit for just over 1,000 miles at this point and the new engine has just barely 4k miles on it since it was first turned over. And I just daily this car. I don't race with it. I hardly keep it over 4k rpms most of the time.

It just cruises mostly with some boost when I want some acceleration. That should paint an accurate picture of how I am using the car. And I NEVER start with the clutch pressed in. I haven't with this engine and I haven't in years. I always check the oil level too.


Now, after having read this entire thread I am not only interested in a different clutch that can hold more torque than I am putting out but I am VERY concerned that in the short amount of time running a SB Stage 2 PP and now a SB Stage 3 PP I am slowly welcoming crank walk. The V160 clutch kits seem to be what everyone references when they talk about with South Bend not so much R154's. Both transmissions are pull-types so they both have the same effect on the rear crank thrust bearing.

I am now planning to buy an OS Giken Grand Touring twin disc clutch/flywheel kit which suits my power level and is advertised to offer an anti-rattle system of some kind which is a nice plus. Obviously there are many multi-plate clutch options available for many intended uses and far higher power levels.

My question is, while I sort out getting the OSG twin kit and actually get it into my car, should driving on the SB Stage 3 R154 pressure plate, despite my other precautions, be strictly minimized or outright stopped altogether until said twin plate is installed?

Again, I don't have a high horsepower 2JZGTE or even a BPU'd one. It's just on stock twins at stock boost. It just needed a clutch kit with better holding power than an OEM MKIII R154 clutch. Of course with a V160 and its OEM clutch kit there is no issue but that's not my scenario.

I have read so much about their good reputation in the SF community, at least with V160 transmissions but I hope even their products aren't contributors all the same to the potential of crankwalk failures.

I am certainly going to switch to an OS Giken twin plate as soon as possible but I guess I am really asking if I should stop all driving of the car on the SB Stage 3 PP (R154 spec) until that happens.

Thanks all. A lot has been said here but I did want to follow up on a previous poster's question as to whether or not SB clutches are relatively or somewhat safe options as to the main topic of this thread. Or if they, like all other single disc traditional clutches against these engines in a V160 or R154... are still not ultimately safe to use even at very low or stock power levels.
 

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I have now read this thread cover to cover for the third time in the past 6 years and i have some thoughts.

None of the supra's sold in europe had the clutch switch (as far as i know), and crank walk has never been a widely discussed problem over here for the 2j. Could be a coincidence of course, but it makes you think for sure.

A few years back a post was made here with a quoted statement from Jacks Transmission regarding crank walk, but it was never discussed in this thread. The link did not work, but i managed to find the statement in their tech articles catalogue. This tech article only focuses on DSM 7-bolt engines, but i guess the general principles would apply to any engine. I don't have any personal experience with Jacks Transmission, but from what i have heard over the years they seem more than competent enough to be trustworthy.

One statement in the article does not make sense to me though, and it is the same statement that was quoted years back in this thread but was never discussed.

"On another note, people seem to think that heavy pressure plates cause crank walk too. I found that to be untrue. If your engine is going to walk, it will walk with a factory clutch. I have seen 7-bolts walk in factory OEM trim and even with automatics. Thrust pressure has nothing to do with it, it's a lubrication issue. If you have no oil reaching a bearing, it's toast. "

Thinking out loud:
While i agree that thrust load in itself probably isn't the sole reason for a crank walking, it must play a significant role? Like the quoted statement says, lets say the biggest driver for crank walk in the 2jz is lack of lubrication to the thrust surfaces. Doubling the thrust pressure on top of that must play a significant role in the wear out of the thrust washers, don't you agree?
Take two pieces of metal and put them together, apply 10 pounds of force and spin one of the pieces at 1000rpm. Now do the same to another two pieces of metal but apply 500 pounds of force instead. The two pieces that has 500 pounds of force applied to them will wear out the fastest? Now, if sufficiently lubricated, could the two pieces with 500 pounds of force last an "eternity"? Probably, i don't have enough competence on lubrication to answer that question. In regard of the 2j, does the parts in question have the sufficient lubrication to handle the extra load of a significantly stronger pressure plate? Maybe not.

Every single post in this thread from people that have had crank walk have all been running single plate clutches with high load pressure plates, which helps draw the same conclusion. The 2j probably has insignificant lubrication to the thrust surfaces, but with OEM spec load from the pressure plate, its all good. Combine the insignificant lubrication with a high load pressure plate and you have disaster after an unknown amount of time.

Well, these are my thoughts on the matter, i would love to hear other peoples take on the statement from Jacks.
 

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^^ Olav, I do not have the extensive experience many others do with multiple JZ engines against different manual transmissions and pressure plates but in doing all of my research and applying it to my R154 equipped car what you theorize seems to line up.

As you can see from a couple of my previous posts this long term potential for crankwalk with a JZ engine and a pull-type clutch transmission concerned me also.

Like you, after reading this thread extensively and speaking to a few others about it, my conclusions also came down to:

1) The tendency for wear when the pull-type R154 and V160 style pressure plates are pressing against the rear crankshaft thrust bearing when starting the engine with the clutch pedal pushed in.

2) The possibility of causing wear and stress on that rear crank thrust bearing by means of a single disc clutch with tremendously more force being applied than the stock R154 or V160 clutches put out.

#1 is solved by disabling the Neutral Safety Switch and not using the clutch pedal to start the engine (a problem you apparently do not have in European models).

#2 is solved by either a carefully designed single disc pressure plate which will still have ultimate torque and lifespan limitations... or with a twin, triple or quad plate clutch which distributes the torque load over a stacked surface area while maintaining a close to stock amount of actual clamping force from the pressure plate.

I first went with a couple of SoundBend single clutches for my R154 (although most SB recommendations here seem to apply to V160 clutches) and I spoke with their staff extensively about this. I do not know enough about the theory and method behind how aftermarket clutches are given increased clamping force from stock but SouthBend's staff (I believe I spoke to "DJ" in their customer service department) were adamant that the way they improve the torque capacity of their R154 single disc clutch kits is not the same way other aftermarket manufacturers do it. I am sorry that I cannot offer a more cohesive explanation to back this up but that along with everyone's recommendation for SouthBend clutches convinced me.

At the same time I was having some issues with my #2 turbo and so in addition to preparing to rebuild my stock set and rectify that problem I also decided to take the other sound recommendation here to switch over to a multi-plate clutch for not only better torque capacity but also to better take the stress off the 2JZ's rear crank thrust bearing once and for all and as a nice side effect to have a clutch with a much longer lifespan at the same power level.

The tradeoffs are the common multi-plate clutch scraping sound with the clutch in and a couple of mild quirks when applying part throttle but it is otherwise one of the best decisions I have made and the best clutch I have ever used apart from factory stock clutches.

My choice (for the R154) was an OS Giken STR2CD (the softer pressure plate version which comes with OS's easy to install movement alteration kit to convert from pull to push style). The break in was the only challenging part and that went by quickly enough. It's amazingly easy to live with in a daily driven car. Pedal pressure is very close to stock and the engagement point is easily learned like it's second nature.

Many other multi-plate clutch manufacturers are out there now... far more of them today than when this thread was first started, I think.

For me this has alleviated my concerns and I feel should have mitigated the potential issue. I'll report back here in 400,000 miles, lol.

...

Also Olav, Jacks Transmissions is an excellent company and one of the best in the business when it comes to handling V160 and V161 rebuilds, service and diagnosis. I believe they are also well known for working with R154's as well.

Unfortunately since the discontinuation of many critical rebuild parts from Getrag and Toyota they can only offer a partial version of their comprehensive V160 service unless YOU the customer just happen to be able to bring in the OEM parts that are hard to find now or which have not yet been reproduced on the aftermarket. Between Jacks Transmissions and SupraSport NL there are a couple of newly reproduced aftermarket V160 parts on the market now but it's far from a complete list.

Anyway, back to their possible opinion on crankwalk with 1JZ's and 2JZ's it would be a good thing to follow up with them on but I think your own post above pretty much captures what has been observed to happen with super heavy single disc pressure plates in a nutshell.

Also, the crankwalk examples Jacks provided in those links/quotes primarily applies to various Mitsubishi 4G63 engines from Eclipses and the other two DSM variants of those cars... and Lancer Evolutions and any other 4663 equipped Mitsubishi vehicles. I have heard about it quite a lot more commonly with those Mitsubishi engines than with JZ engines.

It's just that in this one area the otherwise bulletproof JZ seems to need a little more care as to which particular clutch setup is used.

The multi-plate clutch option is expensive up front but given what overall care and work people put into these cars and given the horsepower and torque outputs many people run in them I don't think it's an overkill solution.

Second best for milder modified power levels I think would still be SouthBend's single disc traditional clutches especially for V160's (highest torque capacity available from them) but also for R154 applications pushing 400ft-lbs capacity or less in street trim.
 

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The supra i just bought has a spec stage 3 single plate clutch, i can't find any torque/clamping force numbers for the pressure plate, so I'm a little worried. The clutch is almost brand new, so kinda feels like a waste to throw it out for a multi plate right away.
 

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The supra i just bought has a spec stage 3 single plate clutch, i can't find any torque/clamping force numbers for the pressure plate, so I'm a little worried. The clutch is almost brand new, so kinda feels like a waste to throw it out for a multi plate right away.
I myself only had a couple thousand miles on my SouthBend Stage 3 single disc clutch before I switched to the OS Giken twin plate. Even though I noticed no issues with it and even after hearing from many people that SouthBend clutches are good about this issue of not designing their pressure plates with too much load force onto the rear crank thrust bearing I still felt it was the better thing to switch to a twin plate with clamping force closer to stock while spreading the torque capacity out over a multiplied disc surface area.

I still have that perfectly good SouthBend Stage 3 in its box in my workroom. A 7M R154 owner could use it without any concerns at all since the 7M blocks do not have this potential for crankwalk.

I do think it would be a good idea for you to consider purchasing and installing a multi-plate clutch. A well designed one will be very easy to live with post-break-in-period and it will not only hold as much or more power than your Spec Stage 3 can but it will be kinder to your engine's bearings... and your knee since the pedal effort should be much closer to stock.

You should find just as many good options for your stock V160 as there are out there for R154's.

Also, depending on how much torque capacity you purchase from a single or triple vs how much power your 2JZ is making you should have a clutch that will last longer than your current single disc traditional type.

The only downsides with a multi-plate clutch are the upfront cost and the initial break-in. And as a distant third perhaps the free-floating noise when you put the clutch pedal in but that's subjective and to me a rather minor thing.

And with any flywheel setup on a V160 that does not use the OEM LuK dual-mass flywheel there will be some rattle at certain RPMs but you can tune that out by adjusting the engine's idle speed setting. In fact, I even get a little of that sometimes (not all the time) with my multi-plate clutch in my R154 although it's much more well known with V160's which originally relied on the stock dual-mass flywheel to dampen out those vibrations.

Still, I feel these are not big issues to adjust the car to when going to a multi-plate.

I think it would be a very good thing for you to consider switching over to one since you just bought your car and since it's a good long term fix to this potential issue. That and disabling the Neutral Safety Switch (if present on your European MKIV) and always checking for neutral before starting the engine.

It has been my understanding that much of this issue stems from starting the engine with the clutch pedal depressed which stresses that rear crank thrust bearing at the worst possible time (no oil flowing onto it yet) especially with the high amount of force beyond stock as you described in your post above. However depending on just how much more additional force is being pushed onto that crank even during gear changes from the posts I have read many pages back I get the impression of eventual crankwalk risks there as well.

A multi-plate is expensive up front but solves a lot of issues and offers more torque capacity at the same time. And unless you're close to the very edge of what a particular kit is rated for you should get a good life-span out of it to boot.

After researching this just as you have olav I can only speak from personal experience with the one OS Giken twin disc I'm on now but I do not regret my decision to make the switch for what it's worth.

...

By the way, the installation of pretty much any multi-plate clutch kit should involve the use of a billet steel clutch alignment tool (not plastic) and the installer should not allow the transmission to "hang" off the back of the engine unsupported by a transmission jack or other means of support. I don't assume many people would do that but it's worth mentioning.
 

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I myself only had a couple thousand miles on my SouthBend Stage 3 single disc clutch before I switched to the OS Giken twin plate. Even though I noticed no issues with it and even after hearing from many people that SouthBend clutches are good about this issue of not designing their pressure plates with too much load force onto the rear crank thrust bearing I still felt it was the better thing to switch to a twin plate with clamping force closer to stock while spreading the torque capacity out over a multiplied disc surface area.

I still have that perfectly good SouthBend Stage 3 in its box in my workroom. A 7M R154 owner could use it without any concerns at all since the 7M blocks do not have this potential for crankwalk.

I do think it would be a good idea for you to consider purchasing and installing a multi-plate clutch. A well designed one will be very easy to live with post-break-in-period and it will not only hold as much or more power than your Spec Stage 3 can but it will be kinder to your engine's bearings... and your knee since the pedal effort should be much closer to stock.

You should find just as many good options for your stock V160 as there are out there for R154's.

Also, depending on how much torque capacity you purchase from a single or triple vs how much power your 2JZ is making you should have a clutch that will last longer than your current single disc traditional type.

The only downsides with a multi-plate clutch are the upfront cost and the initial break-in. And as a distant third perhaps the free-floating noise when you put the clutch pedal in but that's subjective and to me a rather minor thing.

And with any flywheel setup on a V160 that does not use the OEM LuK dual-mass flywheel there will be some rattle at certain RPMs but you can tune that out by adjusting the engine's idle speed setting. In fact, I even get a little of that sometimes (not all the time) with my multi-plate clutch in my R154 although it's much more well known with V160's which originally relied on the stock dual-mass flywheel to dampen out those vibrations.

Still, I feel these are not big issues to adjust the car to when going to a multi-plate.

I think it would be a very good thing for you to consider switching over to one since you just bought your car and since it's a good long term fix to this potential issue. That and disabling the Neutral Safety Switch (if present on your European MKIV) and always checking for neutral before starting the engine.

It has been my understanding that much of this issue stems from starting the engine with the clutch pedal depressed which stresses that rear crank thrust bearing at the worst possible time (no oil flowing onto it yet) especially with the high amount of force beyond stock as you described in your post above. However depending on just how much more additional force is being pushed onto that crank even during gear changes from the posts I have read many pages back I get the impression of eventual crankwalk risks there as well.

A multi-plate is expensive up front but solves a lot of issues and offers more torque capacity at the same time. And unless you're close to the very edge of what a particular kit is rated for you should get a good life-span out of them to boot.

After researching this just as you have olav I can only speak from personal experience with the one OS Giken twin disc I'm on now but I do not regret my decision to make the switch for what it's worth.
Yeah, i put a exedy hypertwin double plate clutch in my previous supra. It replaced a horrible ACT clutch, the pressure plate on that thing was so bad my legs would cramp up if holding the clutch down just for a short time. The exedy i had was super smooth and clutch pedal felt like stock.

I think the spec clutch my new supra has in it has a much more conservative pressure plate than the ACT, i was wondering how far from stock the pressure plate is, but since spec does not provide any data on that i'm leaning towards buying a multiplate right away as you suggest.

And no, our supras does not have the clutch switch, might be the UK spec had them, but not sure.
 
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