well I know http://www.300below.com does cryo work, and www.rabidchimp.com they have prices on their site. I don't see why they wouldn't do a turbo shaft. I'm in he midst of picking up a new CT-26 so I'm thinking of having the place send my turbo out to 300below to see what they can do.

 

well I know http://www.300below.com does cryo work, and www.rabidchimp.com they have prices on their site. I don't see why they wouldn't do a turbo shaft. I'm in he midst of picking up a new CT-26 so I'm thinking of having the place send my turbo out to 300below to see what they can do.

thanks alot for the links! 775 for engine, tranny and clutch..jeez..thats a pretty good price.

 

Sure man any time! Tell me what you think if you end up going through with getting some stuff done. And the prices really aren't that bad.

 

cryo is overrated, there i said it.
I highly doubt you will see a 100% increase in strength. Even if you do, you will probably see a reduction in the toughness of the shaft, something more important than tensile or shear strength. Personally, i would rather bend the shaft then have a catastrophic brittle failure resulting in metal pieces being distributed about my intake piping.

adam

 

I work with a toyota master diagnostic tech ( highest tech. status) and before he was a toyota god, he worked on nitro drag cars for 10 years. he said that his crew always had their engines cryo-treated and it gave them awesomly longer lives!

 

so how expansive r these cryo treated turbo shaft go for?

 

I don't see having just the shaft cryo treated costing too much. Shit I wish I remebered where I sent my stuff to. my cams were $30 each, $48 for pistons and rings, $48 for rods, and $2 each for my sparkplugs. this place below advertised a complete engine for $500 and $700 with tranny. a little cheaper than 300 below. I've talked to these guys before too.

http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/motorspt-pricing.htm

 

I figure if cryo treatment raises the strength of the metal by over 100%,

I dare you to say this to a materials scientist. He'll freaking beat you down!

 

well.. it all about the weight pretty much. They'll do valves and buckets for like 3 bucks or something like that. they pretty much just have a huge ass machine that they put it all in, so the larger/heavier, the more expensive. I turbo shaft, would probably cost more to ship than to have it processed.

but some places can do multiple processes too, like shot peening, cryo, and a couple other heat treatments i think, i was told that they can talor the treatment around your needs. So, if you want a shaft that will be indestructable... pay a little more, and they run it through several more times..

 

do the whole turbo....i heard it eliminates heat more also...therefore allowing/adding longer life.

 

do it to the whole car, cryo-treating is god

 

do it to the whole car, cryo-treating is god

well i was pretty excited to see how the engine and tranny w/ clutch deal is 775

next time, capitalize the G in God, show some respect to the Man.

 

Re: Re: cryo-treatment of the turbo shaft

I dare you to say this to a materials scientist. He'll freaking beat you down!

:lol: ok maybe i over extended that ideal...but im becoming more consumed into this as im reading about more racing teams using it as well as people that are in gun clubs using it for their guns.

 

I'd say do it Johnny. F the haters. Bring back some results.

 

cryo is overrated, there i said it.
I highly doubt you will see a 100% increase in strength. Even if you do, you will probably see a reduction in the toughness of the shaft, something more important than tensile or shear strength. Personally, i would rather bend the shaft then have a catastrophic brittle failure resulting in metal pieces being distributed about my intake piping.

adam

i would defiantley see a reduction in toughness if

they drenched it in a liquid form
they did not heat it back up
they did heat it back up, but took some time to change parts to another vessel.

so far alot of companies ive been reading about have been doing precision treatments in the gas form of liquid nitrogen and reheat in the same chamber they originally threw it in.

fuck, i wonder if anyone has that article where these tractor guys used cryo treatment for their turbos and it lastest a certain amount of runs compared to its original status. dont remember where it was or from what source tho.

 

i kno of alot of FC guys do it and they work good!!!

 

i am getting my whole engine done for under $700..... www.procryo.com is doing mine.... i will be having them do my turbo next

from what i understand u will see a lot longer lifespan of the part after cryotreating it.....

 

the shaft in the turbo needs to have flex to cope with expansion and contraction due to heat and just flexing in general......it the shaft is too hard, the life of the shaft MAY be reduced under certain "load" conditions...like someone trying to push 20+lbs out of it....or past its normal limitations.

basically, the metal will act more like a carbon fiber....it is rock solid until it hits its breaking point.

I hope i am wrong. But this is usually the case with cryo treatments....

by the way...WHAT IS the shaft made of? What exact metal? Chro-moly alloy? Titanium alloy?...this is a BIG question since different metals react differently to heat treatmetns and cryotreatments.

-Jonathan

 

Whoever sais cryo treating doesnt know what there talking about, Ask any builder of tractor pullers, or high fuel dragster what they do to strenghen there motor parts?? More then half have there shit cryoed because it does shrink the molecules too such a degree that it will last double its normal life spand.. A friend owns a old 78 honda and he builds and races his car, We both have has his motor apart about a million times because there wasnt much for aftermarket pistons ect for his crappy 4 cyl, running 15 pounds on completely stock internals, no detonation and it was tuned well... It ended up blowing a rod, then piston..Blah blah blah after only a little while.. Next time around he got all stock internals from the factory and got it all cryoed he is still going on 2 years on his shit running 15 psi daily...I know for damn sure that the 550 he spent at 300below was well worth it even if he got 6 more months then he did the first time around...

Pat

 

Whoever sais cryo treating doesnt know what there talking about, Ask any builder of tractor pullers, or high fuel dragster what they do to strenghen there motor parts?? More then half have there shit cryoed because it does shrink the molecules too such a degree that it will last double its normal life spand.. A friend owns a old 78 honda and he builds and races his car, We both have has his motor apart about a million times because there wasnt much for aftermarket pistons ect for his crappy 4 cyl, running 15 pounds on completely stock internals, no detonation and it was tuned well... It ended up blowing a rod, then piston..Blah blah blah after only a little while.. Next time around he got all stock internals from the factory and got it all cryoed he is still going on 2 years on his shit running 15 psi daily...I know for damn sure that the 550 he spent at 300below was well worth it even if he got 6 more months then he did the first time around...

Pat

shrink the molecules? I think you should do some research into what you are talking about. Cryo (cold treatment) is typically performed on steel castings and machined parts for two purposes: stress releif and to transform retained austenite to martensite (temperature/cooling rate dependent solid phases within the steel), effectively furthering the hardening process of the material. The end results of cryo treating, on top of stress releif, are greater dimensional (microstructural) stability and improved wear characteristics. Note that all the above relates to STEEL, therefore excluding aluminum (pistons, heads, etc); as the strengthening techniques for aluminum involve precipitation hardening as opposed to martensite formation and tempering (steel). Benefits would be seen in cryo treatment of the block/crank/cams/transmission gears, but not much else.

Returning to the turbo issue, I'm going to guess that the turbo shaft/turbine assembly is made of a high temperature nickel-based alloy such as inconel or monel and would therefore see no real benefits to cryogenic treatment. It's easy to jump on the cryo bandwagon, but I think there are alot of unfair comparissons being made with respect to life span of cryo'd parts.

adam

 

Ok smart ass, i have done my research and as far as i know it does compress the molecules without changing the characteristics.. You have millions of molecules that make up a structure, you cryo them so those particles move closer together making a better bond...Which leads to better abrasive wear..Dont try to make it seem like i have no clue what im talking about.. I dont sit there for 40 hours researching about it, maybe you do i just know the basics which i need to know...
Right from 300below..

As our name implies, we treat engine components and parts at minus 300 degrees Fahrenheit to improve their properties. Computer technology allows us to regulate temperatures to 1/10th of a degree, accurately manipulating Cryo-treatment in accordance with the mass of your engine part.

Deep Cryogenic Tempering creates a significant increase in abrasive wear resistance and durability. The increases in tensile strength, toughness and stability may couple with the release of internal residual stresses. The end results are longer engine life, higher horsepower and less breakage.

The one-time, irreversible treatment improves the entire structure, not just the surface, giving your engine stability only found previously in seasoned engines. Decrease the movement and increase your engine's performance and life..

shrink the molecules? I think you should do some research into what you are talking about. Cryo (cold treatment) is typically performed on steel castings and machined parts for two purposes: stress releif and to transform retained austenite to martensite (temperature/cooling rate dependent solid phases within the steel), effectively furthering the hardening process of the material. The end results of cryo treating, on top of stress releif, are greater dimensional (microstructural) stability and improved wear characteristics. Note that all the above relates to STEEL, therefore excluding aluminum (pistons, heads, etc); as the strengthening techniques for aluminum involve precipitation hardening as opposed to martensite formation and tempering (steel). Benefits would be seen in cryo treatment of the block/crank/cams/transmission gears, but not much else.

Returning to the turbo issue, I'm going to guess that the turbo shaft/turbine assembly is made of a high temperature nickel-based alloy such as inconel or monel and would therefore see no real benefits to cryogenic treatment. It's easy to jump on the cryo bandwagon, but I think there are alot of unfair comparissons being made with respect to life span of cryo'd parts.

adam

 

i read nothing about compressing a molecule in that statement. What is mentioned by "300 below" is essentially the same thing my email said; benefits include stress releif and improved wear characteristics. You cant alter atomic bond lengths within an individual grain, you can just get rid of intergranular voids, dislocations, and imputities. Eliminating some of these will indeed increase the properties of the alloy, however i fail to see how this is accomplished by cryo. Strengthening of a steel part is accomplished by furthering a solid state phase transformation that occurrs upon quenching. If you want me to get into how this improves properties, just pm me, il be happy to explain it.

As for the comment regarding "sitting there for 40 hours researching about it", Try 4 years of university studying metallurgy. What I have to say isn't what I've read from some corporate site on the internet, it's what I've learned from experience and experienced people around me.

I'm trying to give you guys a bit of insight into this cryo stuff before you waste your money getting parts, which will see zero benefit to cryo, treated. Yes, you will see a longer life out of steel parts, other materials however, it is unlikely.

But hey, ultimately it's not my money being spent so if you are set on cryo, go right ahead.

 

Well next time dont bash me because i obviously havent studied it for 4 years.. Sorry i am no metallurgy specialist nore have i ever studied anything to with the studies of molecular structure, All i know is from personal expierence that it has worked for ppl i know for there motor to last longer then it did the previous time under the same load... When i first read your post i didnt read all i thought you were saying it only had a effect on the surface of the material..thanks for the insight..

Pat

i read nothing about compressing a molecule in that statement. What is mentioned by "300 below" is essentially the same thing my email said; benefits include stress releif and improved wear characteristics. You cant alter atomic bond lengths within an individual grain, you can just get rid of intergranular voids, dislocations, and imputities. Eliminating some of these will indeed increase the properties of the alloy, however i fail to see how this is accomplished by cryo. Strengthening of a steel part is accomplished by furthering a solid state phase transformation that occurrs upon quenching. If you want me to get into how this improves properties, just pm me, il be happy to explain it.

As for the comment regarding "sitting there for 40 hours researching about it", Try 4 years of university studying metallurgy. What I have to say isn't what I've read from some corporate site on the internet, it's what I've learned from experience and experienced people around me.

I'm trying to give you guys a bit of insight into this cryo stuff before you waste your money getting parts, which will see zero benefit to cryo, treated. Yes, you will see a longer life out of steel parts, other materials however, it is unlikely.

But hey, ultimately it's not my money being spent so if you are set on cryo, go right ahead.

 

No prob, didn't mean any disrespect, I just wanted to clarify.

adam