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1994 Toyota Supra Turbo 6spd
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Discussion Starter #1
i know a lot of the serious road racing guys recommend not to get a FMIC or a big one because of over heating issues (with not getting enough air to the radiator).

the 4 row is a big heavy ass front mount too.. so as far as weight wise, i can understand not having that big of a FMIC in the front.

i was thinking the other day of an idea. has anyone ever thought about re-mounting the radiator IN FRONT of the FMIC? i know it sounds like it would be a pain in the ass and have major fitment issues without a good hack job... but as i look at my car right now i really think with some hacking it's possible to keep the big FMIC like a 3 or 4 row and get plenty of cooling to the radiator.

even if you had to get an aftermarket shorter radiator to fit or what not i think that would help a ton if that was possible...
 

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How would you get the necks for the water lines to route properly? You'd need a shorter I/C if anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
i wish i could draw up a diagram but it's really not too bad. you'd keep the stock water neck.. just imagine the radiator pipe/hose extended up front and part of the frame being etched out to give clearance.

i am having a discussion with my buddy right now and he has a valid point about using two sidemount intercoolers. can you make two side mount intercoolers as big as one 4 row IC? he also says that the 4 row would heat soak faster because it cannot vent hot air as efficiently as smaller "sidemount intercoolers?" i thought it would be backwards (smaller IC tended to heat soak faster in my experience).

do you think having a fan behind the radiator blowing onto the FMIC would effect air flow to the front mount? obviously the FMIC isn't going to be cooled as efficient if it sits behind the radiator now.

nitrous intercooler sprayer... if i were to use that in road racing would it only last one lap and the FMIC and radiator would heat soak? i'd think it'd cool it off for a few laps at least.

what do you think?
 

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WI-FI FTW, GTFO fuse box!
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a little carried away, but good point!! :bigthumb:
 

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The water cooling with a large ic is easily taken care of by removeing the ac condenser and adding ducting above and below the ic. Look at the pics in the post my track car updated.The much bigger issue is oil cooling.
 

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www.ziptieracing.com
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not to rain on your parade, but putting the intercooler behind the radiator is a dumb idea. Have you ever done dyno pulls without a fan? You see how the numbers drop? An intercooler would never be cool if it was getting hot air from the rad blown on it.

2 side mounts would be a better plan. but then you end up with a ton of IC piping which isn't great for pressure drop.

The biggest issue I see in keeping heat in check on your car is power. Power makes heat. You will probably be trying to make too much for the desert heat. I don't know a car that makes more than 500 or 550 rwhp on track that doesn't have heat issues in the desert heat. Dry air and 130+ asfault temps makes it very difficult for the car to stay cool.

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #7
turbomx5 said:
not to rain on your parade, but putting the intercooler behind the radiator is a dumb idea. Have you ever done dyno pulls without a fan? You see how the numbers drop? An intercooler would never be cool if it was getting hot air from the rad blown on it.

2 side mounts would be a better plan. but then you end up with a ton of IC piping which isn't great for pressure drop.

The biggest issue I see in keeping heat in check on your car is power. Power makes heat. You will probably be trying to make too much for the desert heat. I don't know a car that makes more than 500 or 550 rwhp on track that doesn't have heat issues in the desert heat. Dry air and 130+ asfault temps makes it very difficult for the car to stay cool.

Matt
good point and no offense taken. i know it's a random idea but i wanted to brain storm things to try to figure out if we can somehow modify this problem with the FMIC.
i've never dyno'd my car without the fan.. have you? if so how much power loss did you experience?
 

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Member Thingy
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i wanted to brain storm things to try to figure out if we can somehow modify this problem with the FMIC.
This might be just as extreme, but it is functional. I've been working on it for a while now, and have just finished the ducting for it. The setup is a vertical core intercooler with extremely low pressure drop, and extremely short i/c piping. This allows airflow to the radiator around the sides of the i/c, which unlike a horizontal core intercooler, doesn't take up the entire mouth of the car.





As you can see, the piping runs from the intercooler core, straight back to the throttle body.



Here's the mouth, which is separated by vertical "splitters" to allow smooth airflow to the intercooler, and the ducts to the radiator on either side.





Here are the templates for the ducting which forces air into the radiator, behind the intercooler (design allows for smooth airflow out of the intercooler and into the radiator, but that can't be seen in these pictures)



And finally, here is the venturi/diffuser which draws air up into the bottom 1/4 of the radiator from under the car. Not installed yet, is a wings west front airdam off a civic, which mounts directly BELOW the radiator, to push air up into the radiator duct and create a negative pressure zone behind the radiator in the engine bay, which should enhance the cooling by drawing air through the radiator at speed. ( think corvette) In addition, it will push air away from the undercarriage and front tires, reducing drag, but slightly enhancing lift ... in theory. I have a flat undertray in the works, but it depends on the actual mounting position of the radiator airdam, and how low I want that to go. Too low and I create problems with airflow under the car, too high and I lose the effect of the low pressure area behind the radiator.

All in all though, it should offer much more cooling than a normal i/c setup, and allow much more efficient intercooling with far less pressure drop across the core.
 

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I have a Greddy 3-row and stock radiator. I have run in low 90 degree weather without any overheating issues. I found running high 10:1 a/f ratios kept he EGT's in check and the coolant temps. If I tune for high 11:1 a/f ratios my coolant temps quickly climb. I know it makes a little less hp, but on a roadcourse 20hp isn't going to make much of a difference.

Later, Steve
 

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Another option could be a V-mount setup... the RX-7 guys do this all the time with good results. I don't know of an off the shelf version for the Supra - but I'm sure it could be done if you were so inclined.
 

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I was about to say exactly what Jim said.

I looked in the Drag Racing section, and looks like someone finally has done it on a Supra. It's been very popular with the 240 guys and drifters. I'll post the pic in a minute.
 

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Nice work I think your water temps will stay low. Now you just need to keep oil temps in check. I saw the plan for the one in the duct at some point you will need more oil cooling if you track it often.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
chnco said:
I was about to say exactly what Jim said.

I looked in the Drag Racing section, and looks like someone finally has done it on a Supra. It's been very popular with the 240 guys and drifters. I'll post the pic in a minute.
any more picture of this set up on this particular supra? looks like the INTERCOOLER is in place where the radiator was but is angled?
if so where does the radiator sit?
 

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Oh Snaps
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The top of the radiator touches the bottom of the IC, and it creates a V shape when you look at it from the side. The 7 guys really like this because the air that comes in through the front is forced into the radiator and IC, and also if you get vents in your hood you can expel even more hot air.
 

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When I looked at some of the race cars at autox they ran the intercooler/radiator in that V configuration (or maybe it was an L). Whatever... anyway they run a duct kinda like a reverse scoop on the front of the hood so it sucked air through the front of the car through the radiator and intercooler and out the hood.

I think that might work even running the intercooler and radiator next to each other. But it would probably increase drag and lower top speed.
 

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To do a v-mount would require cutting the radiator support. There's pictures of a v-mount on a Soarer over on CL. The car was running an RB26 transplant but had a v-mount. You can see where they cut the radiator support.

Here's the link to the actual site with pics:
http://crazymax999.web.infoseek.co.jp/public_html/12-14-01.htm

You'll have to scroll down to see them.
 

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Member Thingy
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To do a v-mount would require cutting the radiator support. There's pictures of a v-mount on a Soarer over on CL. The car was running an RB26 transplant but had a v-mount. You can see where they cut the radiator support.
Actually with a custom intercooler and radiator it is possible with the stock front end, no cutting. I had all the stuff ready to go, measurements taken, templates made and cardboard prototypes installed. Decided to ditch it at the last minute and go the route I did because what I envisioned last minute had all the benefits of the v-mount, and only half the fabrication which needed to be done.

But it will fit. There is room running the radiator from the top of the intercooler down to the bottom of the crankshaft pulley at a 45-55 degree angle, depending on size of core etc.
 

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I've always wondered if the engine was far enough back, looks like from the pics on the MKIV, it shouldn't be a problem! :)

hmmm. . . .
 
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