Other threads on the matter have shown little support for the MKV. Just have to see how well BMW makes reliable, fast Toyotas.............*

 

Toyota clearly doesn't care what their customer base wants.

If Toyota would have cared for the customer base, they would not have discontinued support for their legacy product, especially for the Supra.
Toyota seems to be so proud of Supra brand that they are trying to sell us a BMW, the least they could do is continue to support these cars.

 

I can agree with nearly everything said in this thread but this is inaccurate. You can still get a ton of OEM Supra parts 20+ years later.. that's incredible. Try doing the same with other brands and they'll show you the door.

If Toyota would have cared for the customer base, they would not have discontinued support for their legacy product, especially for the Supra.
T

Can't lie I feel this as well.

I am so disgusted by this company that I'm even starting to lose interest in my own Supra.

 

Is it disappointing that Toyota outsourced basically the entire powerplant of the Supra? Sure. Would they have been better off rebadging this as something else, yep. But at the end of the day its a business and they've done what they could to mitigate risk with the launch of a new sports car. Even if they spent millions developing a specialized engine, it would have never seen the sales needed to make that investment back.

 

Dude, they farmed out the whole car, not the powerplant. The E N T I R E C A R!

Steve

 

Most businesses try to avoid shooting themself in the foot - and sometimes in the process, they shoot themselves in the head.
Porsche could have Tata Motors build them a "911 GT4" and it would be cheaper, but they won't.

 

im not offended. I'm upset that Toyota didn't have the sense to smack around their bean counters and say " make a good Supra, German engineering, Japanese reliability, italian design with American cost"

An FT-1 with a realistic interior would have been the best bet. Z 51 vette pricing, but z06 performance.

 

Toyota's focus doesn't seem to be about sports cars they took easy way out to get a $50K car with Supra name. Their focus is on the other cars and future electric/hybrid/etc... options.

Their cash cow vehicle the Rav4 is doing well just as Camry, Corolla and others. The 4 Runner and Sequoia are long overdue for a re-design same as the Lexus GX460 and Land Cruiser but they are still selling.

As a MKIV owner I do feel let down and that they could have done a better job with this setup maybe drop the RC-F and replace it with Supra using the TTV6 from LS500 since that motor can be shared but I'm not as stressed out about it as others here are. Toyota has shown us who they are maybe a 6MT option and a more powerful GR version of the MKV will happen but who knows. Best thing Toyota could do right now is to start back offering MKIV parts

 

agreed, Nissan did the same with it's GTR heritage program. however to be fair, Nissan made a hell of a lot more GT-R's than mkiv supra's. Although there were I believe 11-12k R34's made worldwide.

 

It's not just Toyota Supra owners but majority of the sports car community. The MKIV went from Legend to Laughing material at 4.1 secs when the MKV was unveiled. No matter how you slice it, the MKV is a Z4 Coupe.

BMW gave Toyota a Z4 frame, lead them to a room, far, far away from the M factory where BMW parts bin and let them go to work. BMW wins and Toyota releases another mediocre sports car.

That's why his name is Tada. He said, close your eyes and I'll bring you back Toyota Supra... TADA!! :lol:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/208826-Supra/page2?p=1989162#post1989162


https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24344582#post24344582


https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/191474-new-toyota-supra-in-the-works/page-25


http://www.supraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132408&page=40


https://www.s2ki.com/forums/car-talk-73/new-supra-1191047/page9/


https://www.supraforums.com/forums/threads/mustang-vs-2020-supra.116001/


https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/off-topic/4224246-2020-toyota-supra-7.html


https://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f51/2020-toyota-supra-666141/index5.html

 

Akio Toyoda and Tetsuya Tada could have saved the money they sent to BMW and just punch every Supra owner directly in the face.

I am so disgusted by this company that I'm even starting to lose interest in my own Supra.

 

Looks like an RX8 had sex with an FRS....*puke*

 

Offended isn't really the right word.

A profoundly deep sense of crestfallen heartbreak and disappointment is all I get from the MK5.

It feels like Toyota deliberately misunderstood, almost maliciously, everything we love about the Supra and did their level best to undermine all of the elements we love, while "Giving us what we want".

Same as the FRS/BRZ; we wanted another TOYOTA AE86 successor - not a good chassis with a garbage Subaru engine and 5x100 hubs. If the FRS had a Gen 6 BEAMS 3S-GE with a tuneable ECU and 5x114.3 wheel hubs I'd be driving one right now, probably even two as a 'his and hers' pair for daily drivers. I know of three SCCA/Formula D/etc drivers that didn't buy a FRS or BRZ because of the 5x100 hubs - they had a significant investment in 5x114.3 wheels, and had no interest in selling them at a loss to buy 5x100 shit in the limited sizing available in that hub pattern.

Even more folks I know wanted to love the FRS/BRZ, but the FA20 flat-4 sounds spectacularly fucking awful, especially NA or SC, unless you're a vape-cloud Subarube. The FA20's poor power delivery in NA form and limited potential when given FI didn't help the situation.

With the Supra they doubled down on even worse mistakes and just gave us a goddamn BMW. They found the one brand that's on the opposite end of the spectrum from the new Toyota product we really wanted, and instead of simply offering a disappointing engine and wheel hubs, they gave us a totally disappointing car with struts, 5x120 hubs, crappy brakes, and auto trans only.

Toyota, if we thought a BMW I6 would replace the fucking Supra, we'd have bought a BMW by now instead of waiting for the Supra. Seriously. If a BMW was a worthy replacement we'd have sold off our MK3's and MK4's by now for the 135's, 335's, and M235's, etc.... Putting a Toyota badge on a Z4 doesn't change that fundamental fact. It is a little insulting that they think we're so gullible.

Sure, the 'MK5' is probably a pretty cool car. I'm sure it'll respond well to modifications and all the YouTube flappy-heads and car-comedy shows will celebrate it and pay it lip service. But a Supra worthy of the standard set by the MK3 and MK4, it is absolutely and emphatically not.

How Toyota missed that we wanted a new TOYOTA Supra just confuses the hell out of me.

 

I had the same exact feeling when the FT86 concept was unveiled back in 2007. I was so excited that a new AE86 with a manual transmission, Toyota/Yamaha screaming engine, RWD Corolla GTS hatchback would make a comeback and I can finally buy one (since I was a 2nd grader in 1985).

Man, talk about a complete slap in the face when Toyota announced they were partnering up with Subaru. It was going to be a complete parts bin Subaru without a hatchback, built at FHI with Subaru crappy quality, only one version available and drum roll... it going to be under the Scion brand with pure pricing. WTH!!

Talk about a complete disappointment in regards to Toyota. In 2012 I was bought a Supra TT 6 speed for about the same price as a FR-S/BRZ.

In 2014, the FT-1 came out and the excitement was back. I got excited about a new Toyota Supra with I6TT, 6 speed transmission, beautiful looking car designed by Calty, built by Toyota, a new chapter of the Supra Legend. Nope, another slap in the face.

Bought a 911 and now I realize why Toyota has been chasing Porsche. Toyota will never surpass Porsche. Toyota unveils some mediocre TRD carbon bit and bandaid door garnishes while Porsche is racing their cars on the track. Good luck with that shit Toyota...

 

There is no excitement/hype about the car. Its like Toyota announced a new Camry model, no one really cares :dunno: There is just nothing interesting about it to be excited about. Add to that it being all BMW and basically nothing Toyota...


Supra enthusiast currently:

 

I am not a fan of this car at all, but we all need to relax and just wait it out. If Toyota did in fact send every part of that engine back to BMW to redesign/make it more reliable, we may have a winner. I would have much rather had a V6 than an I6 from BMW, but it is what it is. The car is definitely going to get a lot of aftermarket support because of the "Supra" badge, so who knows what will end up happening.

 

I agree with you on waiting it out to see what happens. I'm curious of the impact on Toyota's testing that was done in making the BMW parts more reliable, seems BMW themselves were surprised at Toyota's attention to detail. I'm sure the limits of the drive train will be found out soon it more than likely won't be 2JZ/MKIV mid 8XX rwhp "safe" numbers but even 700 rwhp won't be bad.

 

I like how quick TRD was to release parts for the MKV but it was barely enough to be labelled "performance"
What Toyota will need are actual performance components aside from aesthetics.

 

Toyota designing parts in house for a competitors engine on a low volume car? Haha. Very unlikely. Not sure if BMW has any for the B58 but maybe Toyota can borrow those and slap some Toyota emblems on them, too.

 

I wonder if perhaps enthusiasts and MKIV Supra fans should take this opportunity to be supportive yet influential in shaping the future of of the MKVI. You know what would be worse than the MKV (not saying I dislike the new car)? No more Supra ever. Sure that’s an opinion. But imagine if you will, the MKV isn’t a total flop but it does well enough to not be a loss and is actually profitable but serves to show Toyota that if they lean on what their super fans want to see, the brand could be a huge new leap for the company. It’s big business and not everyone who’s employed is a car enthusiast. Every company has line of business controllers and risk mitigators who don’t know shit about cars but know business, profits, and risk. These days, no company is going to take any action that doesn’t run the full gamut of what these guys have to say. A little success here could go a long way for us all in the future. If it totally bombs, ... meh... you get what you have already.
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem is all I’m saying.

 

:nono: nope

 

Let's just admit to the fact that Toyota stopped building enthusiast cars in the 90's. Maybe the last Celica was a minor attempt to build something exciting, but overall it doesn't take a blind man to realize that the company only cares about the bottom line $. And it's not just Toyota, but most of all the other Japanese car companies are doing the same thing..

So I don't care. My money will just go to Shelby's, Corvette's, ZL1's, Hellcat's or any other car brand/company that doesn't need to make excuses about low volume profit margins.
And BTW, if you are not happy with Toyota's decisions, stop buying Toyota products.

 

One of the saddest things for me is that, they tried to raise the legend after 25 years, and they didnt even want to make the engine specifically for Supra. Not just that they used other company to make them the engine while they have a few Lexus ones to supply, they didnt even make anything Supra worthy.

Instead of going to BMW and say "Hey, its a fucking Supra...lets make something powerful, no fucking around", they were like:

Toyota - "Hey...um.....you have any engine to supply?"
BMW - "What do you need?"
Toyota - "We dont know...something average...nothing really special...we dont wanna spend any big money. Maybe some I6 engines so people find connection with old 2JZ. Could be a good selling point"
BMW - "We have some oldish I6 engines we use for our small roadster"
Toyota - " Umm...yeah, sure...why not. Send it over."



And when you think that Nissan, with 2.5x less revenue then Toyota, built a whole new factory for GTR only.


Toyota is a fucking disgrace

 

There is a twin turbo manual version in the works that will most likely utilize the S58 TT motor from BMW. Downfall is that not many will be offered. We shall see what Toyota brings to the table for the enthusiast/ die hard Supra fans

 

Wasn't aware of this, the info came from Toyota?

 

I am reserving judgement until I sit in one in my dealership and take it for a test drive.

As of now though, I am not impressed.

 

I feel the same way Ken does. I'm not offended, but supremely disappointed. Toyota really effed this one up. First they tease us all with the FT-1, which was a beautiful rendering. I knew the new Supra wouldn't look exactly like it, but the MKV is basically a caricature of it. It's a friggin joke. It's like someone took a compactor and pushed it in from the front and back. The car is way too small to be considered a GT car, which is what the Supra has always been. Toyota also really screwed up from a market research aspect. They are trying to sell a sports car that has only 2 seats, which is fine, but not at the $50K price point where it is going to compete against the Corvette and other cars that offer more power and value for the buck. A 2 seater for $50K is going to be a tough sell. What is your market? I can fit my kids in the back of the MKIV (10 and 6) if I have to, but the MKV doesn't offer this. Not to mention everyone knows it's a BMW so there goes the Toyota reliability that allows Toyotas to maintain excellent resale value. I could keep going on. In the end, they should have called this car a Celica GT or something else. Had it been called anything but Supra I would have been fine with it. They should have let the Supra name die with the MKIV. There is nothing "Supra" about this new car.

Steve

 

This video answers a lot of questions:

https://youtu.be/_jbyzmtgU_0

 

The top spec GRMN MKV for the "enthusiasts" will probably get the Z4 tune (380hp) and a ZF 6MT, if anything.

Even if they use the latest M engine, it will still be a BMW, and that is the main reason why Supra/Toyota enthusiasts dislike the MKV. The below average specs of the GR Zupra 40i are just a secondary issue. Also, I'd find it pretty pathetic if Toyota just orders another 100% BMW engine for the top spec GRMN Supra instead of developing their own powerplant. FFS they have multiple performance devisions (Gazoo, TRD, TMG), and are not able to come up with a limited engine production run, let alone some inhouse modifications to an existing BMW engine?

 

Welcome to the club MKIV fans. Toyota did to the Supra what Mitsu did to its entire lineup of 90's cars. Its a shame indeed.

 

I didn't want to say it at first, because following the main MKV thread I noticed an absence in comments from key members such Ken H. and geuinely thought they were apart of the "group" of people that Tada had contacted.

But when I saw the Detroit reveal, the very first thought I had was that I wished Toyota would fire Tada because I am so sick of seeing the GT86 styling in the camo cars and hoped more FT-1 lived under all those riveted panels.

The whole Detroit revealing was painfully embarrassing for me to watch.

 

Toyota understands the big picture by 2030, just like every company selling cars. Profits will continue to slide as they keep losing the market share to more affordable cars.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-profit-plummets-despite-moderately-055901195.html

Profits are down, cheap is selling.

 

I got banned on the Supra 5 forum for actually pointing out Toyota lies and deception. I won't repeat them here but I will show you something about the weight and the manual transmission:

1. Toyota sold MORE Automatic MKIVs in the first year of sales than manuals. Almost Twice As Much automatics as manuals in 1993 (across all versions and not just TT). Wanna know why? IMPULSE BUYERS. Toyota knows this and that's why they offered Auto for now. From 1994 to 1998 Manual sales doubled the automatics. I'm pretty sure Manual is coming.

2. MKV is heavier than MKIV. I have Toyota factory brochures from 1994 and 6MT TT is advertised at 3415 lbs. MKV is advertised at 3397 lbs. Now remove the spare wheel from MKIV, which the MKV does not have, and your MKIV is lighter. Apples to apples comparison.

3. They say they did not speak to BMW for years. Every test driver of the MKV camo was from BMW with Munich license plate.

This MKV is nothing more than false advertising, banking on hype.

 

1. Toyota sold MORE Automatic MKIVs in the first year of sales than manuals. Almost Twice As Much automatics as manuals in 1993 (across all versions and not just TT). Wanna know why? IMPULSE BUYERS. Toyota knows this and that's why they offered Auto for now. From 1994 to 1998 Manual sales doubled the automatics. I'm pretty sure Manual is coming.

Having purchased Blackie new in February 1994, I can tell you that the majority of new cars sold in the second half 1993 were wingless automatics. I can't speak as to whether there was a deliberate corporate strategy to sell autos over manual-equipped cars, but I can tell you that I visited seven dealerships when looking for a car with my specifications and all of the cars on dealer lots (not every dealer had the car) I visited were wingless automatics.

A personal friend who owns two Toyota dealerships, including the one where I purchased my car, shared with me some of the communications U.S. dealers had with Toyota corporate about whether or not the optional rear wing would sell well in America (keep in mind that, in 1993, a Supra with a rear spoiler might as well have been an alien vehicle from Roswell). Anyway, I had to wait until late January 1994 to find a black 6MT car with a rear spoiler. My 25 year perspective on the initial roll-out of the MKIV, as it relates to auto versus manual, is that it was a production quirk as opposed to a deliberate corporate strategy. This is just my opinion, but I do believe something like this might have been mentioned when my friend and I were discussing my desire to purchase a 6MT car (similar to the rear spoiler/wingless discussion we had at the same time).

I hope you are right about a manual-equipped car being in the future, but here's why I have my doubts: Even though it was developed from 1989-1992, it's abundantly clear the development budget for the MKIV dwarfed that of the MKV. Recall that the MKIV consisted of sport roof and hardtop cars, twin-turbo and aspirated cars, two manual transmissions, four ECUs, eight different brake calipers, four corner-specific brake rotors for the TT car and another four rotors for the NA car, two exhaust systems and so on. The whole idea of the Toyota/BMW joint venture was to share development costs and bring to life two cars that might not have been developed in today's SUV/crossover-crazed world.

Having done that, and assuming a manual car was not a part of the original business case (big assumption on my part; would love to be wrong), Toyota, BMW and Magna Steyr would all have to incur additional R&D costs which, to me, defeats the primary purpose of the joint venture in the first place. Given the price point of the MKV, it does not seem it has the marketplace head room to incur the additional expense of a manual-equipped car, to say nothing of a manual car with the S58 TT motor.

Lots of supposition on my part in this post, but I don't know that it is that divorced from reality given what we know at the moment.


Ken.