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Discussion Starter #1
I know that this topic was explained in great detail prior to the mods going deletion-happy, but I just wanted to see what makes the MKIV such a bad car for drifting. I'm not saying it cant be done, but its definetly harder than driving a 240sx or a 350z. In those cars, inertia drifts aer effortless and only a clutch kick away if the inertia isnt enough. No matter what though, in my MKIV, it is incredibly hard to get sideways unless I drop the clutch at a stop light when I'm turning.

I just wanted to get some input if there was something that would help the car slide a little easier. Suspension maybe? LSD? Even though the car comes with one oem. I know that stretching smaller tires over a fatter wheel helps, but I'm on 295s on a 10.5" wheel in the rear so it isn't stretched and I'm putting down a pretty big foot print.

Any pointers? Suggestions? I'm not a crazy tokyo drifter, I just enjoy the occasional slide around a corner :)
 

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Not as good steering angle is one.
Possibly a too good design for traction by Toyota on the JZA80, lol
It is certainly not impossible to drift the Supra, but it requires more throttle control then other cars
 
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its an expensive car to learn how to drift in ... most people buy a beat up 240 and learn on that ........ imagine if you end up crashing it into a wall or pole?
 

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i haven't intentionally drifted it, but the rear has slid out many times ... easily

no lsd, stock na rims 16x9 245/55/16 eagle tires with tons of tread, throttle at around 2-3000rpm

twice, i have spun out on single lane freeway entrances and luckily just 360'ed it ... in the rain... just from a simple error on my part

but one of them was a hairpin onramp in the rain that i guess where i was exiting sideways (into a spinout ...)

my throttle foot is a bit more controlled these days until i can find a safe track to test the new wheels heh

in dry weather though, i've only done "power slides" cuz i don't have the guts yet to enter the corner w/ excessive speed unlike other crazy drivers that i've driven w/ lol cuz i don't want to risk losing the car just yet and i don't know the car well enough still

Another anecdote: On the second day of taking the car out after purchasing it used (na auto all stock back then), I gave it to a very trustworthy friend who has never driven a supra, and he neatly drifted the supra around a roundabout continuously several times ... scared the sh*t out of me lol
 

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I know at least the 240 is easier to drift becaus of the live axle, I'm not sure if the 350 is IRS or not though. Either way a supra does have IRS and was designed for road racing, cheap nissan RWD cars are doing to slide easily because the company didn't put money into making the car corner like a supra.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
hmm interesting stuff here, It's just funny how a car with so much power (I have 425 at the wheels) has so much time getting sideways. Like I said, I'm no drift fanatic, but I enjoy getting a nice angle every now and then : ) It always seems like I understeer first. I know the MKIVs are very prone to understeer, but what is the best way to remedy this? (As opposed to letting air out of the front tires to induce understeer) I had no idea the IRS was so important to this, and its funny that a cheaper built car is basically made to drift! lol, those crazy japs!
 

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I know at least the 240 is easier to drift becaus of the live axle, I'm not sure if the 350 is IRS or not though. Either way a supra does have IRS and was designed for road racing, cheap nissan RWD cars are doing to slide easily because the company didn't put money into making the car corner like a supra.
The 240 and the 350 both have IRS. The main thing is steering angle and the staggered tire fitment typically seen on MK4s.

The main things about setting up a drift car differently than a road course 'grip' car are steering angle, tire sizing, and rear toe.
Increasing the steering angle not only allows more angle when drifting but it also enhances steering feel and the rate of change. MK4's have notoriously numb steering feel so that doesn't help it when drifting and road racing.

Staggered tire fitment is another place where most MK4 setups make drifting more difficult, 235's or 245's on the front with 285+'s on the back are not uncommon, and in order to balance the traction to make drifting easier you need to put more tire on the front or less tire on the rear. Road racing of course would want the most grip on all four - a MK4 sustained 1.35 lateral G's with an off the shelf coilover setup and a 285 front, 295 rear tire setup. Narrow tires up front enhance understeer and understeer is the enemy of both road racing and drifting.

Now, rear toe adjustments will make the car 'step out' much easier and much more predictably. Some of the 240 guys I've talked to add between 1 and 2.5*'s of toe in to achieve this result. Naturally, this isn't a good idea for tire life when street driving nor is it a good idea if you're trying to go 'grip' driving at the same time.

But, that all being said I'm far from a drift car expert and I'm sure that a few more experienced folks with MK4 drifting such as DarrenS might have some truly valuable insight.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but its just lack of skill/seat time..

There are 6 different ways shown in the "drift bible" video and my car did all of those on stock suspension and a worn out lsd..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9FLfm7oq7Ts
there's you a mad tyte jdm link to the rice bible:)
Absolutely no offense taken. I have plenty of strait line experience but when it comes to making some crazy angles, I'm definetely an amatuer. I like the ricer quote too, haha

The 240 and the 350 both have IRS. The main thing is steering angle and the staggered tire fitment typically seen on MK4s.

The main things about setting up a drift car differently than a road course 'grip' car are steering angle, tire sizing, and rear toe.
Increasing the steering angle not only allows more angle when drifting but it also enhances steering feel and the rate of change. MK4's have notoriously numb steering feel so that doesn't help it when drifting and road racing.

Staggered tire fitment is another place where most MK4 setups make drifting more difficult, 235's or 245's on the front with 285+'s on the back are not uncommon, and in order to balance the traction to make drifting easier you need to put more tire on the front or less tire on the rear. Road racing of course would want the most grip on all four - a MK4 sustained 1.35 lateral G's with an off the shelf coilover setup and a 285 front, 295 rear tire setup. Narrow tires up front enhance understeer and understeer is the enemy of both road racing and drifting.

Now, rear toe adjustments will make the car 'step out' much easier and much more predictably. Some of the 240 guys I've talked to add between 1 and 2.5*'s of toe in to achieve this result. Naturally, this isn't a good idea for tire life when street driving nor is it a good idea if you're trying to go 'grip' driving at the same time.

But, that all being said I'm far from a drift car expert and I'm sure that a few more experienced folks with MK4 drifting such as DarrenS might have some truly valuable insight.

Awesome info! That front tire being wider would absolutely help reduce understeer. Thanks a lot for the info! For the record, I run a 255-35-R18 and a 295-35-R18, so the balance is definetely an issue.
 

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The 240 and the 350 both have IRS. The main thing is steering angle and the staggered tire fitment typically seen on MK4s.

The main things about setting up a drift car differently than a road course 'grip' car are steering angle, tire sizing, and rear toe.
Increasing the steering angle not only allows more angle when drifting but it also enhances steering feel and the rate of change. MK4's have notoriously numb steering feel so that doesn't help it when drifting and road racing. .
Caster is another thing that really ups steering feel - I would run the lance alignment specs for caster for increased steering feel - I believe it is 5 degrees and maybe go even higher up to 7 degrees

Now, rear toe adjustments will make the car 'step out' much easier and much more predictably. Some of the 240 guys I've talked to add between 1 and 2.5*'s of toe in to achieve this result. Naturally, this isn't a good idea for tire life when street driving nor is it a good idea if you're trying to go 'grip' driving at the same time.
toe in on the rear tires makes a car want to stay straight = more predictable handling however more predictable does not mean "drift/ass out" handling. It helps make the rear of the car follow the fronts

toe out in the rear causes cars to oversteer/drift and in some vehicles that naturally toe out during suspension compression (90-93 MR2, they fixed it for 94-95) it can cause snap oversteer when loading the suspension. I have heard it described as very un predictable/scary.

A lot of road racers(mk4) run 0 toe in the rear or 1/16" toe in, this is where I would start for drift applications and try other things from there.


toe in up front again makes a car want to stay straight, however during corner entry it is not very responsive

toe out up front will make cars darty (if using to much) and allows the car to change direction quicker
 

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I think if you set your car up to handle good, then it will do good in drifting. Drifting rarley has anything to do with car setup, but more to do with driving technique. The only benefit to upgrading suspension and tuning is the capabilities of the vehicle.

I drift the mk4 fine, I think its easy.. The reason is because its the car i learned in. Last year i had messed around in 240s and 350s and its different but all you have to do is change your technique and you should be fine as long as you know the right idea (or feeling).

Really with the supra, throttle control is different than other cars.. too much can make you spin and too little will make you gain traction. The nice thing is that its not an understeer car as long as you drive it right. Steering angle has never concerned me because as you get faster and faster, you simply cannot use all that crazy steering angle anyhow because the more angle your tires are at the less contact patch you have. Thats why in s13 if you counter too much you can understeer (saw someone do it, hit the wall, flip their car). The mk4 is heavy but smooth.. Tune it to be as agil as possible and drive it as hard as possible. The drive train and motor can handle it. Allignment adjustment really depends on your skill level of drifting. Going all out and changing the toe and camber before you have had some real experience with drifting will not be right. You want to have the "feeling" of what it is to be sideways in the car because it can be very decieving with the supra.. I though i was DK until i saw video in my earlier stages of learning.

All in all, the supra is great to drift.. talk about weight? 350z weighs just as much... and in my opinion is the easiest car to drift, even stock it is amazing. Power? The best import car in this chategory i think.. The downside is there is not very much support or confidence in the MK4, thats why we need to show people what a great car it is again. You will learn a lot from taking advice and being honest enough to know your limits. If you practice at a steady pace while using little techniques like always look at your aiming point (a cone, the apx of a corner, etc..) you will do fine.

My allignment is -3 camber front and -.5 in the rear.. i have a very very slight toe out so I dont think it makes too much of a difference. I wouldnt use it at first because Its not needed if you use grippy tires in front (for now).

If you have any other questions just ask and ill try to answer the best I can.
 

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Caster is another thing that really ups steering feel - I would run the lance alignment specs for caster for increased steering feel - I believe it is 5 degrees and maybe go even higher up to 7 degrees



toe in on the rear tires makes a car want to stay straight = more predictable handling however more predictable does not mean "drift/ass out" handling. It helps make the rear of the car follow the fronts

toe out in the rear causes cars to oversteer/drift and in some vehicles that naturally toe out during suspension compression (90-93 MR2, they fixed it for 94-95) it can cause snap oversteer when loading the suspension. I have heard it described as very un predictable/scary.

A lot of road racers(mk4) run 0 toe in the rear or 1/16" toe in, this is where I would start for drift applications and try other things from there.


toe in up front again makes a car want to stay straight, however during corner entry it is not very responsive

toe out up front will make cars darty (if using to much) and allows the car to change direction quicker
Ugh! Thank you for catching my error, I meant to say toe-out. No excuse for that sort of blunder, but I am glad that someone caught it - I was about to post an edit to my own post before I saw yours!

Great info about the Lance alignment and caster adjustments, I remember that being mentioned in the past but I couldn't remember specifics.
 

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My allignment is -3 camber front and -.5 in the rear.. i have a very very slight toe out so I dont think it makes too much of a difference. I wouldnt use it at first because Its not needed if you use grippy tires in front (for now).

If you have any other questions just ask and ill try to answer the best I can.
Toe out front and rear?

How/what is your suspension setup, if you don't mind me asking??
 

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Toe out front and rear?

How/what is your suspension setup, if you don't mind me asking??

It's all in the suspension components and set up as has been said already. Usually when I used to set up cars, it's be 2 degrees toe out in the front and 1 degree toe out in the rear, -2.8 camber up front and -1.8 in the rear. You don't want body roll, some good coilovers with a stiff spring rate is ideal. You want good lateral stiffness in the rear, and not so much in the front. Small sidewall is a very big plus, stretched tires even better, makes it way smoother and predictable. The more caster you have in the front the better the steering will return, 240's have about 6.5-7 degrees caster in the front stock depending on how worn your tension rod bushings are. Subframe collars in the rear are something thats always reduced/eliminated wheel hopping and slop in the back. I'm not sure whats all available for the supras as far as aftermarket suspension arms goes, but on cars like 240's, they eliminate bushings all together.
 

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I didn't read through all the thread but I used to drift my MKIV when I was in Japan. As long as you have a pretty responsive turbo then you should be good. I had a 6 speed/ 3 ORC clutch and stock LSD. Yes it would help with more angle in your turns but not a definate need. I had alot of D1 guys in who loved to drift my car because it was so wide and had alot of power. You need to learn when enough throttle is enough. Once the ass starts to slide it really goes. I learned from just going into the corners and hit the gas until I pretty much had that mastered. Then you can practice dropping the clutch but that is a big jump if you are scared to crash.
You can't be scared to crash or you will never get better!!!
 

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I didn't read through all the thread but I used to drift my MKIV when I was in Japan. As long as you have a pretty responsive turbo then you should be good. I had a 6 speed/ 3 ORC clutch and stock LSD. Yes it would help with more angle in your turns but not a definate need. I had alot of D1 guys in who loved to drift my car because it was so wide and had alot of power. You need to learn when enough throttle is enough. Once the ass starts to slide it really goes. I learned from just going into the corners and hit the gas until I pretty much had that mastered. Then you can practice dropping the clutch but that is a big jump if you are scared to crash.
You can't be scared to crash or you will never get better!!!

Are you saying a diff isn't a definate need? If so I strongly disagree...that's what'll keep you stable on transfers, and initiations.
 

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Well the stock is a LSD.. and the stock one is really nice, but clutch type is better..

I also think the toe out in my rear is because of height reduction, but as i said it is very very small... I have left the caster alone since im not too too sure about needing to change it. The way I look at it, since the supra handles great and doesnt understeer very easily with good tires, toe out will only help it oversteer with the increased steering response. I think making the supra as neutral as possible to create an easier control for initaiations and higher speed drifts. The car will always be a bit more heavy than the others, but the balance can be just as good i think. Relocating battery and removing un needed equipment, stereo, a/c, seats.. replace with carbon seat and roll cage puts more weight in the rear.. Weight reduction and balance is what makes this car perform.. But as I said, allignment really should be found after you have extensive practice and testing with a factory setup, or until you know you need to change it.

The reason i say when you know u need to change it is because you will understand how much adjustment you will need with your driving style. Changing all that now will only throw you off and in many aspects make the car more difficult to drive.. but with practice and testing you can tune your car to perform how you want it to.
 

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~2 degrees toe out for me in front, zero in the rear. disconnect front sway bar and play with the tires pressures. I have no problems drifting the MKIV.
 

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I have Zeal super func x coils, Jic hard tie rods and Front upper arms, Titan swaybars.. I have strut tower brace to provide more front grip.

I dont think completley nuetral is the way to go, but the car will never be completley nuetral.. but i think it would be better in higher speeds and making hard transitions when the car is at a 53/47 or something of that sort rather than 57/43 because of the weight being thrown in the front of the car will be harder to control because of the difference.. but many cars that are more nuetral have great high speed controlability and would be harder to offset the weight rather than one with some sort of weight difference.
*EDIT* hehe i thought u said you "didnt" agree with me, oh well, this is why anyhow ;)*EDIT*

I have -3 camber in front, -.5 camber in rear(wanted -1 but oh well) and slight toe out front and rear.. but very slight.

Also, i dont really beleive anyone's setup is wrong really, if someone sets their car up like mine or someone else's I think you will still be atthat point of needing to learn the car over.. it is better to adapt into your own setup by testing.. Like i wouldnt say remove the sway bar, but if it works for connvict, then there ya go ;)

I would also like to mention, since the car has some weight to it, learn to use that as a benefit. Cars without weight usually dont have to start the drift until later.. well many judges would say that would lessen the score.. starting a drift early as possible is one of the nicest and most exciting parts of drifting.. Using the cars weight to and advantage you can really throw the car out, while using ebrake/footbrake and the power of the car you can start WAY early into corners, it just takes practice and timing.
 
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