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1994 NA-T Supra
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys. Been doing some pondering and I thought about trying out the DS62 igniter, but keeping my single coil setup. It seems like from what I gather a lot of the ignition issues are due to not being able to get the coil charged enough, quick enough. Due to it firing for all 6cyl.

I was thinking of running two igniters in parallel. Still single triggered, still single coil. But being able to use the combined power of both igniter signals to charge the coil. Granite the dwell settings may need to change a little to keep the coil cool. But the hope would be being able to run a lower dwell time, with more power actually getting to the coil on each charge.

I would also think there might be a resistance change that I would need to solve since i'm assuming there might be a resistance in the igniter. So having 2 tied together would then offset the resistance since only one is usually used.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this before?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I do also need to take a look at the schematics when I get home. I'm trying to think if the igniter only pulls ground or not. If it's not interrupting the positive signal i'm assuming then it wouldn't matter due to the coil still getting as much voltage as it can from the battery. Compared to a CDI box where it stored more energy then lets the coil have that when triggered.
 

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Why not go coil on plug with nzz coils? I think the charge time is the issue, not the lack of current. More voltage does help tho
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Why not go coil on plug with nzz coils? I think the charge time is the issue, not the lack of current. More voltage does help tho
I might down the road. Honestly i'm looking to see what can be done with the dist at this point. I think I can find a combination that'll work for me, at least for a while at the power i'm looking to put down. Sometimes it's just looking to see what works or what combination works.

I'm basically trying to figure out if there is an alternative to installing something like a 6AL box etc. I would assume there is some other versions out there that might even be stock. And/or be able to do something that ends up getting the same result. I know most people just go individual coils right away, so I can see why there isn't much info.

And I do understand the advantages of doing the individual coils as well, so this is more of an experiment at this point. I think my Mustang was #2 in the USA to run AEM and LS coils instead of the distributor at the time. So I've been there before! lol
 

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i tried for ages to get a decent spark with the single coil, firstly i upped the voltage to 20v, then i used a mr2 turbo coil, gave the igniter more ground. it all helped but i was only able to manage like 18 psi / 290rwkw.
 

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I'm at 620rwhp through auto trains with just a DLI.

I'm planning to add a 6a and Bigger MSD coil when I return home Monday.

I'll keep you posted.
Why do you not want to try a 6a?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm at 620rwhp through auto trains with just a DLI.

I'm planning to add a 6a and Bigger MSD coil when I return home Monday.

I'll keep you posted.
Why do you not want to try a 6a?
Very nice! I've been over 21psi without an issue so far as well. Just trying different things to see if they help before I run into problems.
I was thinking of just playing around with stock style stuff, like the DS62 igniter you can get for $25.00, over the $250+ for a 6A box. Although there might be other tach issues etc that come along with the DS igniter. It's just more of a "maybe theirs another way" option that I was looking into.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I did also look over the schematics, and even though the positive is right to the battery, the negative still would run through the igniter. I wish I knew if there was some internal clamping for amperage going on or not in the igniter. If there is, then hooking two up, would theoretically enable the coil to pull 2x the amperage. But if it's pretty much just switching to ground, with no internal amperage or voltage clamping. Then hooking 100 together wouldn't make a difference. Maybe one day I can borrow a scope and do some testing.
 

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Do you want to buy my DLI when I upgrade to 6a? I could trade ya something...it is super easy install... My 620whp is on auto unlocked. So probably over [email protected] crank.

My car is 100% stock 2jzge never even opened valve covers. Once I do 6a install I will report back and hope to do a Dyno next week when my stall gets back. Right now I'm on stock stall
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Do you want to buy my DLI when I upgrade to 6a? I could trade ya something...it is super easy install... My 620whp is on auto unlocked. So probably over [email protected] crank.

My car is 100% stock 2jzge never even opened valve covers. Once I do 6a install I will report back and hope to do a Dyno next week when my stall gets back. Right now I'm on stock stall

Hey David, I might be interested in it. Although i'm looking to make around 800RWHP down the road, so chances are i'll end up going with the 6A box as well.
 

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I installed my 6a box and hvc coil, I cannot believe the difference!!!

I have them gapped to .20 and it is solid on 28psi pump meth.

DLI really was maxed out 620hp through unlocked auto...so around 700ish

I ended up wiring the 6a and coil so the factory coil is still operational in case the msd fails. I also needed the coil hooked up to give tach signal.

I'm going to have my big stall back next week and do a final dyno...but I'm happy I kept all that MSD crap from my MR2 days

David
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I installed my 6a box and hvc coil, I cannot believe the difference!!!

I have them gapped to .20 and it is solid on 28psi pump meth.

DLI really was maxed out 620hp through unlocked auto...so around 700ish

I ended up wiring the 6a and coil so the factory coil is still operational in case the msd fails. I also needed the coil hooked up to give tach signal.

I'm going to have my big stall back next week and do a final dyno...but I'm happy I kept all that MSD crap from my MR2 days

David
That's great to hear man!! At least it's good to know what direction I'll end up going. How did you keep the factory coil operational? Just no plug attached or do you have both coils firing one the dist wire?
 

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The MSD 6a has 6 wires coming off the end

2 largest are power and ground: Power I went to alternator and ground to closest chassis point

2 Medium are power and ground to the MSD coil, So obviously I went to the MSD coil

2 Smallest are for Ignitor signal. Normally you would have a tach adaptor and hook the tach adaptor to these two wires and also the Ignitor wires would connect. I just made a T-splice and had the Small MSD Red go to the Black/orange"bigger" ignitior wires and the black to white blue. This Gave me tach signal and left the factory coil firing. I just put a cap over the factory coil output but if my MSD ever fails all I need to do is to install the factory coil to distributor wire and be on my way!

Just running one coil at a time, I now have Iridium BKr7EiX plugs gapped to .20 and no issue what so ever, I was actually able to put a 2nd meth jet into my intake because I had enough ignition power to fire 2500cc of meth instead of only 1000. Planning direct port meth for next season

David
 

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your concept wont work easily. basically you are talking about what the msd 6a does by providing multiple sparks. even if you used multiple ignitors they would trigger at the same time and not give more than one spark. the ignitor does not provide any power it just triggers the coil, so triggering the coil via multiple sources at the same time wont do anything. now if you had the second channel and third channel providing slightly delayed spark that might do something, but that is basically what the msd does, and you would have to make a circuit to properly delay it without messing up the spark and dwell times of the coil. good concept but don't see a way to easily duplicate what you can already buy.

Have you done the tt ecu mod?? you know you cannot run a ds62 igniter on the 2jzge ecu unless it is parallel to the stock ignitor cause that ecu needs the stock ignitors IGF to run, it will not run with the IGF from the ds62 ignitor. only the gte ecu will run off the IGF of the ds62 or gte ignitors.

why not switch to coils though it takes like a half day to install vvti coils and wire them up including with the tt ecu mod.

Its much better than running a msd box, I mean sure you are running whaever psi but at plugap of .02?? that is seriously terrible.
I can stick my man junk in the cylinder and get better ignition.
switch to coils and gain some power, and then throw a DLI on that.
you are loosing spark in the distributor, its simple. if you want to keep amplifying things to get around that, ok but you will never solve the loosing power in the spark jump in the distributor and that is alot of work to have a less powerful setup.
swap to coils and increase those plug gaps and see the increase in power. Its not like vvti or gte coils are expensive, and you have a FFIM according to your signature.
maybe its me but I just don't get it. coils are better than the distributor, and having tons of turbo intake clearance its a no brainer.
I am not running as much power as you guys but I can run a .042 gap and not break up, I am sure I could hit what you guys are with a gap more in the .028-.032 range with just coilpacks and no igniton amplifier. just my .02c, even my idle quality improved when I went coils.
 

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what ali said /\ scept you can just use a igf faker and not need an igf return via the igniter.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ali,
I know man, I keep thinking about just eventually going with the LS2 coils (like I ran on my Fox), since i'm running an AEM ECU it makes it even simpler. I'm starting to realize it's almost not worth the hassle keeping the dizzy for much longer. I keep trying to figure a way to make the distributor better, but you can only do so much with it. Might just suck my pride up and do the conversion sooner than later. I know when I switched to the LS coils I had a lot more stable timing etc as well..... Going to have to think about it for a bit and see. My setup is good for now at least. Although I wish I wouldn't have dropped money on a new coil at this point....
 

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Its much better than running a msd box, I mean sure you are running whaever psi but at plugap of .02?? that is seriously terrible.

****Actually .018 is the common Gapping for Supras in our area, best idle without sacrificing any spark*** MY 700hp pump Supra runs .018, Also my 1000+hp E85 IS300.

I can stick my man junk in the cylinder and get better ignition.

***Dude that hole is pretty small....no judgments here :)****

switch to coils and gain some power, and then throw a DLI on that.
you are loosing spark in the distributor, its simple. if you want to keep amplifying things to get around that, ok but you will never solve the loosing power in the spark jump in the distributor and that is alot of work to have a less powerful setup.

****6 wires is not considered much work***

swap to coils and increase those plug gaps and see the increase in power. Its not like vvti or gte coils are expensive, and you have a FFIM according to your signature.

***I Still have NA intake on SC300***
maybe its me but I just don't get it. coils are better than the distributor, and having tons of turbo intake clearance its a no brainer.

***Weird I have 6766 with tons of room and have fitted a 7675 with full intake on and distributor***

I am not running as much power as you guys but I can run a .042 gap and not break up, I am sure I could hit what you guys are with a gap more in the .028-.032 range with just coilpacks and no igniton amplifier. just my .02c, even my idle quality improved when I went coils.

***I too could probably gap more with MSD but like I said our local tuners don't really do more then .018. This being said I think you would be very surprised as to how quickly spark blows out with higher boost. I could run .025 on stock ignition up to 500hp or 18psi. But when going 25-32psi we needed to keep dropping gap down to .011 even with DLI.

And NO, VVTI coils even with DLI will not do .028-.032 at 750-800hp...How do I know I have a 28k mile IS300...took a lot of Magic to make them go over 1khp...we gapped them down like a MOFO

All this being said, I think coil packs are cleaner and no moving parts(I'm a yacht captain...I love things that don't have parts to break)

I just like things to be factory and enjoy them. My IS300 is still on stock intake manifold and retains all factory function while making bigger power.

ANyways, I hope you guys will be at SIV2016 and we can discuss in person, I'll be the custom metal wide body supra(Yes I know I said I like factory shit...my supra is far from it....)

Everyone do whatever is best for your car and ignition....good ignition is KEY to POWER!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Haha, my problem is I get myself into a position where I like to do thing different then others. And still have the same outcome. Although as I've been getting older I'm starting to move closer to the side of if it works just do it this way and enjoy the car haha. At the power levels I'll be at though the distributor will work fine for a while at least thankfully. But I have a feeling for the $ coils are just the way to go in the long run.
 

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vvti coils are a no brainer and fit under the stock intake manifold, 3 coils with better dwell times that do not have to bridge a rotating spark gap is inherently better than 1 coil that has to bridge the gap with a lower dwell (I am talking about the rotor and contacts in the distributor which is a loss).

as to the work I meant figuring out this ignitor stuff, you know the title of the thread and also then wiring up a msd 6 box.
you might as well wire in some coilpacks. even the GTE vvti motors use them so they are pretty decent place to start.

for whatever power level you have, yes you may have to gap it down but that gap still sounds pretty small. The point is that you can run a larger gap with coilpacks. now comparing stock vvti coilpacks to msd 6 isn't exactly a straight comparison, but I would still rather just run coilpacks.
If you have a FFIM I would run 6 coils then, that will allow for even better gaps.

if you grab an IGF simulator, you can run the GM coils and you can run large gaps on those even at 30 psi, people swap to those for that reason.
If you are on a standalone, then just get an FFIM and go straight to the big boy GM coils, you will gain power.

I think its hilarious to have spend thousands getting a na-t setup to put out near 1k hp with a large turbo where everything has been upgraded, then hardly spend anything on ignition and expect an ignition system designed for a 200hp motor to be up to the task by slapping on amplifiers and gapping down plugs until it works, but as always feel free to do what you think is right, I can only state common sense and maybe just maybe that person deciding to spend their money on keeping an ancient distributor setup might just "get it" and decide to put that money towards a much better setup that they can further upgrade down the road.

If I was running 30psi and meth, I would skip over vvti coils even and go with something with even more spark energy, surely the proper solution would never involve the stock distributor in my book.

Whenever I do na-t, the first thing that gets changed is the ecu for a gte one or standalone and coilpacks get installed, If I couldn't do it then I wouldn't even start that na-t project. there is no power level where the distributor "will work fine" for me, cause I know I am loosing power through it. A good set of used vvti coils costs like $150, a ds62 ignitor is like $30, and then the wiring and clips maybe another $30, so its really not that expensive to go with basic coils, its actually less than what a msd 6 box costs. you will need a gte ecu or standalone, you can get an aristo ecu for $100 and a map sensor for $80, and you have eliminated most of the weaknesses of starting with a n/a motor and set yourself up for some good reliable power.
 

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Just a Few comments before I'm done wasting time with Mr. Ali who obviously knows more then My Tuners: John Reed and Alpha. .018 is the recommended gap.

The IS300 runs the same coil packs as VVTI GTE so they are designed for more hp then 200.

And I would stop talking about the GM coils so much I can see you have never ran them. They overheat!!!

I imagine you car is not making much power and this is the reason you keep wanting more gap. You cannot even get .30 on brand new GTE coils.

Do you have Dyno proof that the distributor is actually losing power?
 
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