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Discussion Starter #1
I just got word that Ethan's NA-T using our new header and speed-pro fuel injection dynoed at 662 RWHP and 580 TQ. This is with our SP63 and our auto tranny. Just imagine if it was a 5 spd!! Probably would have made 750+ RWHP.
Lar
SP

Whats the record for a NA motor??
 
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Powerhouse made 667rwhp. I think the record is held by some nut in Japan who spent something like 20k on his motor. I saw an article on the na supra about 3 years ago in a japanese magazine.

Whats the record for a NA motor??[/QB][/QUOTE]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by Davidk:
<STRONG>Powerhouse made 667rwhp. I think the record is held by some nut in Japan who spent something like 20k on his motor. I saw an article on the na supra about 3 years ago in a japanese magazine.

Whats the record for a NA motor??</STRONG>
[/QB][/QUOTE]


On an auto?? Or 5 spd?
 

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I gotta question losing 100hp extra through the tranny? Thats a whole lotta heat thats gotta go somewhere.
Dylan
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, thats why a huge tranny cooler is a must with a converter.


Last year we built two idntical cars, HKS twins, 264 cams, fuel, vpc, FMIC, the usual.....

The 6 spd at 24 psi dynoed 676 RWHP, the auto only 540. Go figure!! Now take those two cars to the track and the auto kills the stick car in the quarter.

I talked to Rob Smith and one of the torque converter Engineers from B&M and they said in our application a 4K stall converter will cause up to a 33% drivetrain loss on a dyno!!

But, its worth it for those 1.4 60' times!!


Lar
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Originally posted by Sound Performance:
<STRONG>
I talked to Rob Smith and one of the torque converter Engineers from B&M and they said in our application a 4K stall converter will cause up to a 33% drivetrain loss on a dyno!!

Lar
SP</STRONG>
Lar - Are you kidding me?! 33% loss?! So you're telling me that with my 4200rpm stall and 541rwhp(mustang dyno) - that close to [email protected]?? (541/.67 = 807)

wow -

Jay
 
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the weird thing about the whole situation is that it doesn't seem like the loss of power on the dyno corresponds to a lower trap speed, like it should... do 6 spd single turbo cars lose that much power during shifts?

-warren
 
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Originally posted by Sound Performance:
<STRONG>Yeah, thats why a huge tranny cooler is a must with a converter.
</STRONG>
Larry,

What tranny cooler do you recommend with a 3800-4000 stall converter? I was planning on using a "Perma Cool" fan cooler from Summit Racing. Is this OK and do I need the largest size?

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: Supreme ]
 

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Larry,

You are an engineer.. I have a hard time believing that you think an auto tranny is going to cause an extra 125 hp loss on the dyno.. thats a whole civic worth of power. That would demand a gear driven water pump and a "tranny cooler" the same size and thickness as a civic radiator. Personal experience.. a long long time ago I dyno'd a single on an otherwise stock car at 9 psi..I got 280 torque and 340 Hp.. this is no tuning, no fuel, no intercooler, no lockup switch. 340 * 1.33 = 450 hp at the motor.. thats pretty good for 9 psi. Maybe I am wrong, but 250 hp or so is a WHOLE lot of heat to be losing through a tranny, like enough to melt the bellhousing. Additionally, what is the flow rating for a turbo like the sp63? 667/.67=995 HP at the crank.. thats almost 100 lbs of air per hour.. I thought consesus was it would take something along the lines of a t100 or at least a t76 to run that kind of CFM. Again.. I could be wrong, but common sense, personal experience, and physics tell me I am not.

Dylan

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: Scorch ]
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Originally posted by Scorch:
<STRONG>Larry,

You are an engineer.. I have a hard time believing that you think an auto tranny is going to cause an extra 125 hp loss on the dyno.. thats a whole civic worth of power. That would demand a gear driven water pump and a "tranny cooler" the same size and thickness as a civic radiator. Personal experience.. a long long time ago I dyno'd a single on an otherwise stock car at 9 psi..I got 280 torque and 340 Hp.. this is no tuning, no fuel, no intercooler, no lockup switch. 340 * 1.33 = 450 hp at the motor.. thats pretty good for 9 psi. Maybe I am wrong, but 250 hp or so is a WHOLE lot of heat to be losing through a tranny, like enough to melt the bellhousing. Additionally, what is the flow rating for a turbo like the sp63? 667/.67=995 HP at the crank.. thats almost 100 lbs of air per hour.. I thought consesus was it would take something along the lines of a t100 or at least a t76 to run that kind of CFM. Again.. I could be wrong, but common sense, personal experience, and physics tell me I am not.

Dylan

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: Scorch ]</STRONG>
Dylan, I also had doubts about these losses until I talked to the engineer from B&M. Remember that Ethans car has a high stall converter that will not lock up, we are working on a fix for that. Also Ethans car has a 120 hp NOS kit that was used on that run.

Here are a few more examples.......

We dynoed two identical cars 2 years ago, both HKS twins, cams, etc.... 6 spd made 67X RWHP at 24 psi, auto made 540ish same boost.

Our SP63 on a 6 spd car typically dynos at 625-650 rwhp, but on an auto the best we have seen is 580.

On an auto car we see as much as a 60 rwhp difference on the dyno when we lock up a converter. This is on cars in the 500 RWHP range.


Two weeks ago we ran my partners car at the track with a converter that would not lock up. It had a lot of hard runs on it. The best trap speed was 125. With just a new converter that now locks up, the traps increased to 134 with NO other changes. Where did the HP go?? Do the math and see how much HP was lost.

Also note that on Jarretts 8 sec car, he dynoed it with a 6 spd in it...... wonder why???


Lar
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Larry,

good examples..I just have a hard time with 300 hp lost through the tranny. What is the problem with ethan's TC? Again.. 662 is pretty amazing.. you sure that is just a little ole sp63 in there? ;) :eek: ;)

Dylan

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: Scorch ]
 
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662 rwhp with 120 shot of nitrous is 542 rwhp without the bottle. With the driveline losses we're talking about, thats about 800 horsepower at the flywheel, definitely not out of the realm of possibility...

-wc
 

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This makes no sense, I can't see an SP 63 supplying enough CFM to make 800 HP.

I'm with Dylan on this, the heat generated by the tranny and torque converter (specially encased in a tranny tunnel) would require a massive cooling system.

Still impressive as hell and more RWHP than my car (650.6 RWHP) makes anyway.

Congrats to Ethan.

Originally posted by drizzt31:
<STRONG>662 rwhp with 120 shot of nitrous is 542 rwhp without the bottle. With the driveline losses we're talking about, thats about 800 horsepower at the flywheel, definitely not out of the realm of possibility...

-wc</STRONG>
[ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: T66Dawg ]
 
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I think ~2 bar with 150 shot...

well, heres where i'm coming from. auto cars with SP63s are trapping ~133-135 mph. Manual cars with SP63s are trapping pretty much the same figures, however they are dynoing ~50-75 rwhp more... this supports our theory about large driveline losses on the dyno. Another thing to consider is that without large quantities of air moving, the tranny coolers on automatics aren't as useful.

-wc
 

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Warren, if they are running the same traps, they are putting the same power down, right? I have always heard/known/inuited that rear wheel HP/weight were the most important contributing factors to trap speed, am I wrong? While I have your ear, do you know of anyone that makes a bracket to attach the SX regulator to the TB of our cars?

Dylan

[ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Scorch ]
 
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