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Ken,

Great thread. I can't believe you've owned it that long! I also can't believe your luck with the motors/build, but you were right to just start from scratch on it. You had no other choice. The 6766 is also my turbo of choice and has been since 2011. It's just the perfect street turbo in my opinion. My car maxed out at 930whp, but that's with a 10/1 build and S1 cams along with a PHR intake manifold. I usually keep it at setting 2 or 3 out of 5 (680whp and 750whp) and that's the perfect amount of power for a street Supra. How are those Michelins holding up? I have R888Rs, but they are a bit annoying to say the least (loud). Great tire though and holds the power as well as great handling/braking.

Glad to see you enjoying the car once again.

Steve
 

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Wow.
A great read, Ken. I think you spent more time in documentation than I have spent working on my car!
You are right about the perseverance and hubris. It takes a lot of the former to overcome too much of the latter. AMHIK!
“If you are going through hell, keep going.”
― Winston S. Churchill
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Man that was an awesome read Ken. So many twists and turns with this build but like you said, perseverance and overcoming adversity were key to finish Eau Rouge to your liking.

This is why I enjoy this forum.
Thanks, Shady. I agree. SF cannot be beat when it comes to the quality of its build threads and the information contained within. It's the best.

Did Evasive tell you who was building their motors?
I believe two motors were built in house and one contracted out to a noted SoCali engine builder. My memory is not exceedingly clear on all this, so best to contact Evasive directly if interested in its engine building services.
Such an amazing build! On a side note, did the firewall insulation pad come factory in you engine bay? Not sure I've seen that before but it looks very nice!
Thanks for the kind words. The firewall insulation is an OEM part. It took a while, but my records search turned up two possible part numbers: 51441 - 14140 and 53341 - 14110. Hope this helps.


Ken.
 

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What a treat to read this thread Ken, @FasTTurbo was right about needing more threads like this.
There is a lot of "punches to the gut" going on when reading through the thread with all the engine setbacks. I can feel your pain when reading it.


Any idea why the rail was not sitting flat? I ask because I've had difficulties installing fuel rails flat in the past, and have taken many attempts to make the injectors line up properly. With each attempt I followed that up with pressurizing the system to look for leaks until there were no leaks at the lower injector bosses.


Funny...and so true. Well done on the build, I'm glad we finally get to see all the Eau Rouge build pictures in one thread.
Dave,

Always great to hear from you, brother. Hope we can get together soon (pic taking and SIV).

No idea why the rail was not sitting flat. I do know that, when I picked up the car from SPE in 2011, we did NOT have a fuel rail/fuel leak issue. I'm just glad the issue was identified and resolved. I never had an issue with an HKS rail before, but I guess there's always the first time.

Thank you for sharing! Well written as always. Glad you are enjoying her finally
Thanks, Ron. I appreciate the kind words. It's good to be back in the saddle.

My boss is going to be pissed! I got on (at work) to read a few quick posts, and ran into this. Couldn't stop reading. Great job Ken, cool story. Glad to see you have the car running like you always wanted. She's a beauty.
Thanks, Shawn. The thing that has always amazed me about these cars is that, no matter what kind of difficulties you encounter, once you get them where you want them to be, all those trials and tribulations quickly recede to the background and soon become a dim memory. Hope you're still cool with your boss :).

Thank you for sharing and more importantly, thank you for all the transparency regarding all this, what an emotional trip!

Perseverance deserves a bold treatment in this thread. That's a lot to go through, sort out each time, and stay hopeful in each iteration. I've been down the road of instilling faith in a shop, that shop royally setting me back quite a ways with nothing to show for it and in fact, re-doing all of the work done out of fear that ignoring those one or two things that I didn't check would bite me HARD down the road. It's not a good feeling, very humbling indeed!

Glad to hear of the happy ending and Eau Rouge being in the state that you envisioned it! She looks great and best of luck to many miles of enjoying and boosting!

-Rich
Thanks, Rich. I've followed your work on your own car so I know you can feel where I'm coming from. I am glad things are turning out well for you as a result of all your hard work.


Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
That's an awesome thread. Thanks for sharing Ken.

R.K.
Thanks, R.K. As I've told you before, you know your way around clean cars, so a compliment from you is a big deal to me.

The Evasive Motorsports portion of this story really gets me going, mostly because I know what a great guy you are and having dealt with something similar recently with another shop I know how helpless it can make you feel. Like you, I'll be making sure to hold them accountable.

That being said, very happy to see you bring Eau Rouge back into the spotlight. I was starting to think she was the first to go to make room for the TT flat plane v8 :D
Shant, it's true a TT DOHC flat plane V8 Z06 will have my attention but, honestly, so does the new Audi RS6, the (hoped for) LC-F and (a possible) LS-F. I don't need another 2-door car and those 4-door rocketships definitely have my attention. I do hope you get your issues sorted with "Hellraiser". I've been waiting anxiously for her unveiling.

Whenever I see you post in a thread I will read it knowing there will be great insight.

Thank you for this exceptional journey and it's great to hear the car is what you want it to be!
Thank you, sir, for your very kind words. At the end of the day, these build threads are all about providing insight and helping others. Glad you approve.

Awesome thread Ken, shes a beauty. I thoroughly enjoyed reading all about the trials and tribulations, and oggling her in person at SIV18:

CDSaints, thanks for the compliments. On average, I put about 630 miles on whichever car I drive to and from SIV. Eau Rouge has always been a GREAT driver so I knew if we ever broke the curse, she would be something very special in spite of her in house competition.


Ken.
 

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I believe two motors were built in house and one contracted out to a noted SoCali engine builder. My memory is not exceedingly clear on all this, so best to contact Evasive directly if interested in its engine building services.
I wouldn't ever use them. It's obvious from the pictures of the pistons that there was a fuel issue. If they didn't flow test all of the injectors after the first foul up, and no one brought it up, then I would question just how knowledgeable these 'pros' are. Did they bother to look at the spark plugs?
 

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Ken I want to thank you for spending the time to creating this thread. This is what I love about forums to this day, it lets you focus on one thing, not distracted by the need to scroll and view bits and pieces only to have your attention drawn away (likely into how toothbrushes are made for several hours)

The timeline and backstory reads like a novel and I was glued through the twists and turns. I'm glad to see everything ultimately found its home and updated/replaced in all the right ways. You are a good guy and deserve all the best car things in life and I'm glad I can call you a friend. Your modification prescription is perfect, you don't fall in love with one brand but draw all the best into one cumulative package. You know my affinity for red supras and for some reason if you loose your clutch leg in a horrible dining room table incident you know I will gladly fly out and stretch Eau Rouge's legs for you. If I have to send @Steve Theodore in my absence that will be ok since its a long flight.

Cheers my friend, I feel inspired

-Matt
 

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I've been inactive on this forum for quite some time, but there's only a few people that could reel me back in. Ken, I look forward to reading every one of your threads, because of the fantastic writing, your thoroughness in documenting each step, and because you just have good taste when it comes to builds. Eau Rouge looks lovely. Hope all is well with you, my friend.

Chris
 

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Ken, sorry about your long road to get to this point, but I'm happy to hear you're enjoying your cars. It has been too long, my friend. We need to set aside some time to catch up at some point in the future.
 

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Amazing build . I admire your dedication to these MKIVs . Only the best for these cars .
 

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Shant, it's true a TT DOHC flat plane V8 Z06 will have my attention but, honestly, so does the new Audi RS6, the (hoped for) LC-F and (a possible) LS-F. I don't need another 2-door car and those 4-door rocketships definitely have my attention. I do hope you get your issues sorted with "Hellraiser". I've been waiting anxiously for her unveiling.
I can appreciate that. No issues with the "Aerobuni" fka "Hellraiser" build, Pat actually corrected that shop's mistakes on that other car. Not to take away from your thread, but I just posted the update! Look forward to your feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Guys,

Given that this thread combines events from as long ago as 12 years to the present, I thought it would be a good idea to roughly lay out my time with the car that will, hopefully, help readers to place this thread in proper context.

2006-2010: 4-years of BPU bliss;

6/2010-12/2011: Car stored at SP Engineering; APU work completed; initial troubleshooting as time permitted;

2012: Drove the car for a year with a 91-octane tune, making about 520 whp;

2013-2016: The Lost Years; and,

2017-2020: "Glory Be!"

Part of my indecision in whether or not to post this thread was my concern about "declaring victory" too early after the car went back to SPE. If you've been around APU Supras for as long as I have, you know that anything can go wrong no matter the quality of the parts or the competence of your engine builder and tuner.

Because of the sloppiness of the ancillary work surrounding the engine build and installation, [email protected], and his chief engine builder, continuously warned me that, when the dyno work started, the motor would likely blow. Even though my arrangement with Evasive prohibited anyone other than its chief tech (former SPE chief tech) from working on my car, the things discovered by SPE its second time around with the car were completely out of character for the person involved.

It appeared to me that others had their hands in preparing the car to deliver to me and they were not sufficiently experienced with MKIV Supras. The only other way to reconcile the issues discovered with the competence and experience of the chief tech is to surmise that, somehow, he had completely lost his engine building and tuning mojo. The tuning part is clear from this thread and, while there will always be a question regarding the motor-building part, the work we did on the dyno, and the miles I've put on her since, have increased our confidence in the quality of the motor build.

I just hope I do not live to regret typing these words at some point in the future. My backup, of course, is to have SPE build Eau Rouge's original motor, employing some of the ideas Alex and I have tossed around for years. Only time will tell.


Ken.
 

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Ken, WOW!

What a wild and unpredictable ride! I am glad that Eau Rouge is finally back on the road with all things right in the world. E85 is fantastic and consistent E85 is simply some of the best stuff to happen to turbocharged gasoline engines. I'm very happy that you're finally able to enjoy it!

Great pics, and what a roller-coaster story with such a fantastic Supra! The best part of the story, of course, being the happily ever after when you're finally enjoying all the fruits of your trouble,

🍺
Jeff,

Stay safe in Kuwait, my friend!

Many thanks for your email. I think you nailed it. Can't agree more about E-85. The E-85 at the Chevron station closest to me appears to be very consistent, but I won't know for sure without several more tankfuls. I'm anxious to do a regular mileage test as well, but I haven't been able to resist the temptation to keep my foot out of it.

I hope your return to the states in May is still on schedule.

Ken,

Great thread. I can't believe you've owned it that long! I also can't believe your luck with the motors/build, but you were right to just start from scratch on it. You had no other choice. The 6766 is also my turbo of choice and has been since 2011. It's just the perfect street turbo in my opinion. My car maxed out at 930whp, but that's with a 10/1 build and S1 cams along with a PHR intake manifold. I usually keep it at setting 2 or 3 out of 5 (680whp and 750whp) and that's the perfect amount of power for a street Supra. How are those Michelins holding up? I have R888Rs, but they are a bit annoying to say the least (loud). Great tire though and holds the power as well as great handling/braking.

Glad to see you enjoying the car once again.

Steve
Steve,

Nail on the head in both areas. You are right. We had no choice but to start from scratch with the cards I was dealt. You are also right about the 6766. It's a great street turbo and very flexible. I have a 1.0 A/R and, with my built head, including velocity-based port work and +1 OS valves, it is very responsive, and even more so with the E-85. I've very pleased with it.

Wow.
A great read, Ken. I think you spent more time in documentation than I have spent working on my car!
You are right about the perseverance and hubris. It takes a lot of the former to overcome too much of the latter. AMHIK!
“If you are going through hell, keep going.”
― Winston S. Churchill
Words to the wise, Larry. Much appreciated, as always.

Ken I want to thank you for spending the time to creating this thread. This is what I love about forums to this day, it lets you focus on one thing, not distracted by the need to scroll and view bits and pieces only to have your attention drawn away (likely into how toothbrushes are made for several hours)

The timeline and backstory reads like a novel and I was glued through the twists and turns. I'm glad to see everything ultimately found its home and updated/replaced in all the right ways. You are a good guy and deserve all the best car things in life and I'm glad I can call you a friend. Your modification prescription is perfect, you don't fall in love with one brand but draw all the best into one cumulative package. You know my affinity for red supras and for some reason if you loose your clutch leg in a horrible dining room table incident you know I will gladly fly out and stretch Eau Rouge's legs for you. If I have to send @Steve Theodore in my absence that will be ok since its a long flight.

Cheers my friend, I feel inspired

-Matt
Matt,

Thank you for this kind post, my friend. You know that I can't do build threads the more traditional way, in the moment and over time. I have to finish my work on the car and, then, develop the build thread in several intense sittings (about five very late nights in this instance) and post it all in one fell swoop. If I did otherwise, these things would never get done. Also, I think the reader can appreciate getting through from start to finish in one sitting if they are so inclined, so that's a benefit I believe everyone can appreciate.

You know my wife calls you @Steve Theodore and I "The chatterboxes", so there's always room for you guys at the Henderson abode, dining room table incident or not :).
 

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Now THAT is what I call a history lesson right there... Ken, I've heard people called "a scholar and a gentleman" before, and you definitely fit that descriptor. I thought I had experienced some heartache in building my car, and while mine is far from what I'll consider "done," it has at least only left me stranded once, tried to catch itself on fire once (or twice?), and generally just gives me a lot of the "little" headaches that these cars test us with.

Your story though? Wow. Consider me impressed. I'm not sure what I'd do if I had an engine failure of the sort that you have had with this car. I'm humbly impressed here at your dedication. I do some really silly things for the sake of my Supra, but deep down, I know there has to be a limit to my own love for these cars... Thanks for posting, gives us all perspective on our own difficulties, and the rewards for sticking with it.
 

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I wouldn't ever use them. It's obvious from the pictures of the pistons that there was a fuel issue. If they didn't flow test all of the injectors after the first foul up, and no one brought it up, then I would question just how knowledgeable these 'pros' are. Did they bother to look at the spark plugs?
They were brand new ID 1000 cc injectors, flow tested as part of my purchase, but your point about fueling is well taken. Since I posted this thread, I received a long email from a Supra OG, describing the exact same thing with two blown up turbocharged Honda B18C motors that mystified the assembled experts until they discovered an improperly machined fuel rail and a successfully flow tested injector that was canted 6-7 degrees in the rail. The seals still worked but the nozzle was nowhere near the correct angle to point at the intake valves as designed.

Like mine, that car started, idled and drove around just fine until pressed into high duty fuel cycles at high rpm (read, very fast valve action). Before discovering the problem, they built a second motor, reversed the order of the injectors and torched the same cylinder for a second time. With all the off and on action related to my fuel rail over the course of four motors, I think that what's described above, likely, applied to my situation as well.

I also think my situation could have been exacerbated by bad injector dead timing; one or the other or both in lethal combination. Crazy shit.


Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I've been inactive on this forum for quite some time, but there's only a few people that could reel me back in. Ken, I look forward to reading every one of your threads, because of the fantastic writing, your thoroughness in documenting each step, and because you just have good taste when it comes to builds. Eau Rouge looks lovely. Hope all is well with you, my friend.

Chris
Oh my! Long time, my friend, a very long time! Don't be a stranger. I remember all those wonderful conversations we had in the Other Cars subforum. It's great to hear from you and I do hope you stick around.

Ken, sorry about your long road to get to this point, but I'm happy to hear you're enjoying your cars. It has been too long, my friend. We need to set aside some time to catch up at some point in the future.
Hey, Mark, you're another great friend that's been gone too long, but I have to accept my responsibility in that as well. You have my word that, in 2020, we will catch up and then some. Glad you're still in the game and hope business is good.

Amazing build . I admire your dedication to these MKIVs . Only the best for these cars .
Thanks for the kind words, gerrb. You are so right. Only the best for the best.


Ken.
 

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With all the off and on action related to my fuel rail over the course of four motors, I think that what's described above, likely, applied to my situation as well.

I also think my situation could have been exacerbated by bad injector dead timing; one or the other or both in lethal combination. Crazy shit.

Ken.
I fully agree. The guys tuning it were just chasing the AF average of all six cylinders which likely lead to other issues such as hot spots if the motor was ran for a while. If they had been there in person for the teardown and saw the temp differences across the pistons they should have realized there was a mechanical issue, not a tune problem. Unfortunate.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Now THAT is what I call a history lesson right there... Ken, I've heard people called "a scholar and a gentleman" before, and you definitely fit that descriptor. I thought I had experienced some heartache in building my car, and while mine is far from what I'll consider "done," it has at least only left me stranded once, tried to catch itself on fire once (or twice?), and generally just gives me a lot of the "little" headaches that these cars test us with.

Your story though? Wow. Consider me impressed. I'm not sure what I'd do if I had an engine failure of the sort that you have had with this car. I'm humbly impressed here at your dedication. I do some really silly things for the sake of my Supra, but deep down, I know there has to be a limit to my own love for these cars... Thanks for posting, gives us all perspective on our own difficulties, and the rewards for sticking with it.
Brad,

Thank you for your very kind words. Reading your posts over the years, I knew you would have a greater appreciation than most of my trials and tribulations. No doubt it was a humbling experience, but I will be very gratified if other members benefit from this thread whenever they might face similar circumstances and what may appear to be never ending adversity.

To all the readers of this thread, ask yourself the question, What would you do if you encountered such difficulty? A LOT of troubleshooting went into resolving my difficulties. If you do all the work on your own car, do you have the expertise to start from scratch? If you already have an APU build, are yours the only hands that have touched your car? Do you maintain meticulous records? Can the state of your car be ascertained by reviewing your records? During the troubleshooting done by SPE, I received many inquiries from [email protected] regarding what had been done to the car while it was in Evasive's custody. I was able to confirm what parts were installed (new coil packs, new injectors, new engine harness, etc.) when and how many miles, if any, these parts had accrued.

I am what some sarcastically call a "checkbook mechanic". I have always paid SP Engineering to do the work on my cars except for the time I spent with Evasive Motorsports. As such, paying for troubleshooting will get expensive and will play with your mind if you let it because there is no guarantee the troubleshooting will be successful. The only way to ensure success, to the extent possible, is to start from scratch and go down every rabbit hole. Rinse and repeat. So, unless you are preternaturally gifted, when you face issues like mine, you will need someone like [email protected], [email protected] Performance or [email protected] Street Performance, guys that have probably 80, or more, combined years of experience working on MKIV Supras, guys that have seen and done most everything and, of course, guys who are not cheap.

With their experience, though, you get speed, efficiency and incredible knowledge, attributes that will save you money in the long run. In other words, you get what you pay for. The lack of these attributes may cost you money by going to a shop whose hourly rate is, ostensibly, less than those noted, but whose lack of experience lengthens the troubleshooting phase substantially and puts ultimate success further into question. Just something to think about, whether or not you do you own work.


Ken.
 

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Ken,

Threads like these is what keeps Supraforums alive! Amazing on your car it seems the least desirable color is often driven the most coming from a Ren Red owner. so unfortunate that you had to deal with issues upon issues, but now you get to enjoy the fruits of your labor. I've been inactive for a while but would log in once in a while to see what's going on. I'm glad you updated us with your car. enjoy her in good health, life is short, and add more boost! I'm hoping to come to SIV since I've been battling it out with my car but the bugs are getting sorted, little victories at a time. Hope to see you this year


Tuan
 

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I'd have no problem taking my Supra to SP for work. In fact, I have done that for several items (TRD Diff install, PRO EFI install/E85 Fuel System). My problem is that SP is 6 hours away so I end up doing most of my work myself. Nothing wrong with paying someone else, though, especially now that I have a family, I'd much rather be with them than wrenching in the garage. It's all about priorities.

Steve
 
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