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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #1
I didn't have any luck searching with the google site search, so I thought I'd pose a question about brake pads for road course use. From what I gather, for a car with TT brakes the main options for track pads are:

Carbotech (X8 and X10 seem common)
Porterfield R4's
Hawk Blues
(I know there are others, but can't think of them now)

I just saw that EBC has some "yellowstuff" pads for our cars. I've not been a fan of the greenstuff I used on a previous car, and the redstuff has always gotten really poor reviews for not lasting a track day.

Has anyone here run the yellowstuff yet? If so, what were your impressions? Or what pads would you recommend?

Our local track pro highly recommends the Hawk HT-10, but it's only available for the front brakes on our car. I think he's trying to pull some strings and get some rears though.

Thanks for any insights-
 

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I bet Hawk would make you some if you send them the rear backing plates.

The R4's dust and it cannot be removed easily. I'd recomment skipping them if you have wheels you care about.

The XP10's are good, but you need r-comps to take advantage of them. If you're running street tires the XP09 are the best I've used on the Supra so far.

No experience with the EBC pads. I shied away from them after the bad reviews I've seen of the Greenstuff and Redstuff.

I also avoided the Hawk Blue and Black since I heard they ate rotors. Haven't had any rotor destruction issues with the Carbotechs or Porterfields.

Hope that helps!
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Chris! That helps a lot. Hawk makes other pads for the TT rear calipers, so they should already have the patterns/plates for making RT-10's. I've also been resistent to the blues since they do eat rotors!

Nice to know about the R4's dusting problem too. I will be tracking with my Kinesis wheels, which I love dearly, so I should avoid the Porterfields.

I'll look in to the Carbotech XP09's. I plan to run with street tires for the next year+ until I'm more familiar with the car.

Thanks again for the tips.

-Dan
 

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As you probably already know, I have Carbotech XP10's this year and based on my first track day a couple weeks ago, I love them ...but I do run on R compounds.

Last couple years I had the XP8's which I also thought were quite good, though I really have no hard data comparison if/how much better the XP10's are ...other than last year I recall my buddy following me in his Firebird Formula w/a well built LS1, and he was driving very hard (there is even a vid of it on his website) and I had gained a little advantage coming thru some back and forth turns leading into the main short back straight so I figured to put more distance on him I'd go deeper than usual at the end of the straight before braking, but when I went hard on the brakes something just didn't sit well with me and I thought maybe I was still going too fast, so I just drove into the paved runoff rather than make the turn. When I pressed that issue on the same track section a couple weeks ago with XP10's, I kept going deeper and harder ...hey, where did I hear that before? ;) ... and the XP10's always gave me confidence they were doing the job.

I know Porterfield also makes excellent pads but I also heard about dust problems and the Carbotech dust situation is very manageable. I also keep hearing of Hawks eating rotors, I even gave away a new set of Hawk pads to my buddy when I got my first XP8's; and as Chris mentioned, I also did not want to experiment with EBC's.
 

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The other issue I forgot to mention with the Porterfield R4's -- the pads themselves cracked at Thunderhill on my 3rd track day. They were still usable but the material itself developed cracks.

I still run them on my AE86 track car (Carbotech doesn't have AE86 pads) and like them though.
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks again for all the feedback. Our local track pro doesn't like Carbotech pads, but I've heard nothing but glowing reviews of them from the Supra community. If he can't get a full set of HT-10's, I think I'll go for a set of the XP8's this season.

As cheap as the yellowstuff pads are, I'm tempted to get a set and compare them to the other track pads I end up with. I may try comparing the two on a single track day to see what difference I can pick up and measure the wear on the pads and rotors between the two. Since they still say you can street drive with the yellowstuff, I'm pretty skeptical that they will work well as a track pad.

I also heard that the Porterfields are great pads for lighter cars, but do tend to crack with heavier cars like the Supra. Sounds like your experience matches this as well.

Thanks again-

-Dan
 

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Hey Dan -- did he say why he doesn't like the Carbotechs?

If you do back-to-back make sure you account for pad bedding procedures.
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #10
Hey Dan -- did he say why he doesn't like the Carbotechs?

If you do back-to-back make sure you account for pad bedding procedures.

He didn't elaborate much. It was in an email where I was asking him about the various pad options and he just said "carbotech are junk." He's a big BMW/Porsche driver, so maybe he had a bad experience on one of those applications. I've heard nothing but good from everyone here.

Thanks for the note about bedding in the pads. Carbotech wants you to re-turn the rotors if the previous pads were non-carbotech. If I end up doing this test I may consider getting a second set of rotors and just swapping everything out trackside around lunch time. Considering the expence/time, I may just try the pads on different days and see if the yellowstuff is even worth using at all. If it is, I'll do the wear experiment afterwards.
-Dan
 

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I've had good luck with the EBC greens on a short course. Use Hawk Blues on big tracks with decent results. Rotor wear was fine with hawks, but do not use x-drilled with the hawks. 2 sets of cryo'd rotors cracked. The non x drilled are still going strong after 3 events.

-Jon
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Jon! I'm going to pick up a set of the yellowstuff just to try out and see how they work. But I'm certainly going to pick up some other pads as well to compare with. A full set of the EBC's are cheaper than a front set of any of the other pads I'm looking at, so it's worth a shot.

-Dan
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #13
Oh ya, another interesting tidbit I learned about the Hawk Blues was from a friend who tracks his 240sx. He really likes the Blues (rotors are also very inexpensive for him) but earlier this season we had a lot of rain one track day. Apparently the brake dust and water ended up making this concrete-type buildup on the inside of his wheel. He had to use a chisel to get it off the next day after soaking the wheels in warm water.

That said, he's still running the Blues and liking them.

-Dan
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #14
I wanted to share an update on the project. I just got my hands on a set of the Yellowstuff pads. I tracked with the HP+ last Friday. There's almost no measureable rotor wear, but I haven't pulled the pads to see how much life they lost. I'm guessing it's a lot! My next track day won't be until July 20th, so testing the Yellowstuff will have to wait until then.

I called Hawk Performance today and found some interesting information. Even though their web site doesn't list them, they *do* make the HT-10 compound for our rear pads too. I'm currently getting prices from a few places so I can try out a full set of HT-10's. They came highly recommended by the track-pro who drove the car.

While on the phone with the Hawk rep he mentioned that they have made the rear Blues ***obsolete*** for our application. He said they have ~16 sets in stock still, but once those are gone, they're not making any more. For the few people who run those, you may want to stock up now!

-Dan
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Discussion Starter #16
Sure thing. Also, some more bad news....the rear HT-10's are also discontinued. They have ~26 sets left, but when those are gone, they're gone. I'm having Summit add them to their online inventory (should be active any day now). The part number for the rear HT-10's is:
HWK-HB216S-590
They're going for ~$105

According to Hawk, the front HT-10 and Blues are still active numbers and they don't have a plan to discontinue them any time soon.

I did get a chance to go and measure my rotors/pads after the last track day. This was using Hawk HP+ pads. I was unable to measure any wear on the rotors using my dial indicators. They were within a few thousandths of an inch from new. But the pads certainly wore some. I'm measuring an average of 0.08" off each of the front pads. Since the pads were only ~0.47" to begin with, this is about 15% of their life. Also, I should note that I only ran about 125 track miles that day (was busy making changes to the car the rest of the time), which is about 1/2 as many miles as normal.

I have the Yellowstuff in hand now, and will be ordering the HT-10's later today. I won't have another track session until later in July. I'll update the thread with new measurements after that one.

-Dan
 

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Heavy Metal Momentum
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I don't have the same options as you guys with the mk3 (no Hawks anymore)
I was recommended the Raybestos ST41 from a economic standpoint. A friend at Porterfield said they'll last close to a season of DE driving. I think I'll try them next month at VIR (I do not use R's yet so I won't get the full advantage) the R4S I have used just wears too quickly at track temps and was told the R4 wouldn't last for the price they cost.

EBC lists pads for the mk3, haven't tried them though. The yellow is half the cost of the Raybestos, anyone recommend these?

Quick, did the R4's fully crack/crumble or just on the edges? My R4S showed cracking and some crumbling on the edges but I've put ~10 autoxes on them since with no problems.
 

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The R4 cracked in the centers of each pad, but the crumbling was minimal. I tried to be careful with the pads.

FWIW this was my first set of track events so I was probably harder on the brakes then than I am now.
 

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Heavy Metal Momentum
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What are everyone's thoughts on a race pad but not using race tires? Any major disadvantages like being into ABS too much? I'm thinking about trying the Raybestos but I run street tires on track (S03's) and didn't know how a high friction compound might respond.

Thanks,
Brian
 

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I use Hawk HT-10 front and hps in the rear with toyo ra-1 tires. I am very happy with that set up at Watkins Glen
 
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