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1988 MA70 Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I am looking at my options for what do to with my motor. I am interested in making more power but I daily drive my car and do not want to deal with a blown motor or anything of the sort.

Which leads to me my self-induced predicament.

Context: My car is a 1988 Supra Turbo. I love it and I daily drive it and plan to continue to do so, which is why I plan to have such an expensive build as I want to do it right and then not have to worry about anything at all. I have spent all winter building up my platform and fixing all my old-car quirks and now I am nearly at a point where there I have touched every part of the car and replaced some aspect of it. My platform and drivetrain (excluding engine) have zero issues, and all my current issues lie in my engine bay.

The saying goes "Cheap, Fast, or reliable. Pick two" and I am prioritizing reliability over anything due to my daily driving in the summer, but it seems impossible for the 7MGTE to be cheap if I want it reliable, whether its fast or not.

I am stuck deciding between building my 7MGTE, an LS engine, or a JZ engine.

No matter what engine I decide, my goals are at least 400whp, easy to work on and maintain, and daily drivable (only in summer).
No matter what engine I decide, I plan to replace the wiring harness, use a standalone, and keep my R154 as I really like the transmission and its durability.
No matter what engine I decide, I plan to build the engine and have it completely overbuilt for my purpose, for the added reliability as well as to raise my ceiling.

I have done a lot of research and pricing out on the inline 6 engines, not so much on the LS yet, it's kind of a new interest.

It seems like building a 7MGTE and a JZ will be around the same costs of upwards of $15000 to do it how I want it.

Fully built and forged internals, new head internals, and general performance upgrades and mostly, weak link eliminations in my old tired engine.
For the 7MGTE, it's in such an old state that I would almost quite literally have to replace every component on the engine if I wanted to make it reliable and to where I need it to be. Everything is so worn and I am very much a "do it while its there" kinda guy. And the JZ engines are so expensive here in Canada that it would all add up to a huge amount of money to drop on a 33 year old car that I bought for 5k.

I just replaced my head gasket (DIY) and it was still 2200 for parts and machining. Just for parts on the 7M it would be well over 10000 just for me to have the piece of mind. Likely with the JZ too, and then adding the initial cost of a JZ on top, neither sounds like an ideal option to me.

But after some initial research and digging, an LS engine seems like the best idea. Cheap buy-in, cheaper parts due to availability, much simpler engine design, (and lighter too for the aluminum blocks), and I'd be replacing the ECU and wiring harness anyways.

Clearly it can fit in our cars, there are bell housings that fit the R154 to the LS block, and they are reliable, especially without a turbo. I can't really see any objective reason as to why this engine would be a bad idea to put into my specific car, but subjectively, I really enjoy turbos and inline 6 engines, it was one of the reasons I bought my car in the first place. Even building a turbo LS would be cheaper than what I would do with my stock engine anyways.

For most people, I agree that a simple rebuild on the 7M would be the most practical, replacing components that can't be replaced with the engine in the car and then replacing the rest over time. But I really don't want to just have a ticking time bomb of an engine with stuff breaking all the time.

But I think due to the nature of myself and my goals, an LS engine swap might be my best bet, even if it is blasphemous.

Did I write this to convince myself or is it a plea for help? Who knows.

If anyone else has comments or suggestions, please let me know. I'm not expecting anything to be cheap, this isn't a civic I'm building. I want to take my time to build a quality car that will last.

I'm in Canada BTW so all prices are CAD. JZ engine here are so expensive. 1JZ imported is 5 thousand and a 2JZGTE usually is 8-10 for a running one. 5k for a blown one. Plus the parts availability and shipping costs are quite abysmal up North, which is another driving factor for domestic engine popularity in my mind.
 

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The LS is fantastic once sorted out, but there's a lot of different Gen III/Gen IV V8 variants that everyone calls 'LS' so finding an actual LS2/LS3 or other desirable performance variant is spendy as hell by itself. If you start with a simpler truck engine like an L33 or LQ4 you'll have to change over all the accessories and a bunch of other parts to fit easier in a car, along with the various oil pan changes etc needed.

Then there's the matter of actually making an honest 400whp. Most of the 'LS' pattern truck engines 5.3-6.2L can easily make mid 300whp with basic bolt ons and a cam/valvespring/pushrod combo as well as stock Corvette or similar intake manifold and throttle body. But getting to 400whp+ is best done with an LS2 or LS3 and that combo is usually a big cam (with supporting valvetrain parts), headers, intake, bigger throttle body, etc. So while a bare LQ4 seems appealing for an initial entry cost, performing all the maintenance and sourcing all the additional swap parts and performance parts to meet your goal will not be as inexpensive as it seems.

It will, however, be outstandingly reliable once sorted out.


Given your goals and intent, I'd step in a slightly different direction and I'd consider building a 2JZ-GE VVTi. These are cheaply sourced as complete longblocks and with your refresh process a set of stock GTE rods or inexpensive Eagle rods are an easy option. There's a myriad of standalone EMS's that support the GE VVTi. NA-T with a simple single turbo manifold and basically any quality turbocharger will nail your 400+whp power goal quite easily.

Some of the same JZ expenses are there like the rear sump oil pans, JZ bell housing flywheel for the R154, etc. But the physical path to installing it is very straightforward and known, and front facing intake manifolds are plentiful as well. Keeps all the boost and turbo noises, it'll be reliable, and it'll be just about everything you'd ask of a 2JZ-GTE just significantly cheaper.
 
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^^^ What he said. I boosted a bone stock IS300 with the 2jz-ge VVTi years ago and got 400whp at 6psi from a SP61 and NA 440's. Reliably lasted years until turbo blew.

$10k for a 400whp motor? U spending WAY too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The LS is fantastic once sorted out, but there's a lot of different Gen III/Gen IV V8 variants that everyone calls 'LS' so finding an actual LS2/LS3 or other desirable performance variant is spendy as hell by itself. If you start with a simpler truck engine like an L33 or LQ4 you'll have to change over all the accessories and a bunch of other parts to fit easier in a car, along with the various oil pan changes etc needed.

Then there's the matter of actually making an honest 400whp. Most of the 'LS' pattern truck engines 5.3-6.2L can easily make mid 300whp with basic bolt ons and a cam/valvespring/pushrod combo as well as stock Corvette or similar intake manifold and throttle body. But getting to 400whp+ is best done with an LS2 or LS3 and that combo is usually a big cam (with supporting valvetrain parts), headers, intake, bigger throttle body, etc. So while a bare LQ4 seems appealing for an initial entry cost, performing all the maintenance and sourcing all the additional swap parts and performance parts to meet your goal will not be as inexpensive as it seems.

It will, however, be outstandingly reliable once sorted out.


Given your goals and intent, I'd step in a slightly different direction and I'd consider building a 2JZ-GE VVTi. These are cheaply sourced as complete longblocks and with your refresh process a set of stock GTE rods or inexpensive Eagle rods are an easy option. There's a myriad of standalone EMS's that support the GE VVTi. NA-T with a simple single turbo manifold and basically any quality turbocharger will nail your 400+whp power goal quite easily.

Some of the same JZ expenses are there like the rear sump oil pans, JZ bell housing flywheel for the R154, etc. But the physical path to installing it is very straightforward and known, and front facing intake manifolds are plentiful as well. Keeps all the boost and turbo noises, it'll be reliable, and it'll be just about everything you'd ask of a 2JZ-GTE just significantly cheaper.
Looking at N/A 2JZ prices, they seem alright actually. I found a guy who will sell me the whole thing ecu, wiring, accessories, and engine for 1000. 2002 GS300.

I'll have to look into it more. Might post a thread to confirm everything I'd need/want to make it work.

I find all the JZ stuff a little confusing, because a lot of things don't seem compatible and such. Along with that, will the VVTI mess up anything in terms of buying parts? Or would I have to eliminate the VVTI (just get a new valvetrain...?)

^^^ What he said. I boosted a bone stock IS300 with the 2jz-ge VVTi years ago and got 400whp at 6psi from a SP61 and NA 440's. Reliably lasted years until turbo blew.

$10k for a 400whp motor? U spending WAY too much.
Keep in mind its Canadian dollars and I have to pay hefty shipping and customs on orders from the US. Part availability for 7M and JZ are awful in Canada.

While my goal is to make 400whp, I'm not going to build an engine that is rated for that number or lower. I want a high ceiling so that I don't have to go in and redo a bunch of work to make more power. Like I said, I want to do it right the first time so that if I want more power down the road, its not going to be a big deal or impede my desire for reliability.

Not disagreeing that I'm spending way too much though lol, but thats the story of this car!

The way I see it, is the more money I spend up front, the less I have to worry/spend later.

I mean I could definitely just go with a simple rebuild and gasket refresh on a 2JZ-GE-T, but for how long would it last with daily driving? Aren't there issues with oil squirters, head differences, piston strength?

I am by no means an expert on the JZ engine or even the 7M, so I am definitely open to information and education.

It's just that as of right now, I only have ideas and sort-of a plan.

EDIT: I know a JZ would be a lot less work to actually put in considering the mk3 was made with a 1jz at one time and they are all extremely similar in terms of layout and dimensions. Compared to an LS where It'd be more of a "custom" job of course.
 

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2JZ-GE VVTi's have weak connecting rods but otherwise it's a non-issue for ~700+whp. Oil squirters are a safety net or for serious endurance racing, basically a matter of preference for your goals. The VVTi 2JZ's have totally different cylinder heads than their non-VVTi older brothers but the valves and the intake and exhaust manifold bolt patterns are the same, so virtually any manifold for a 2JZ-GE will fit both the VVTi and non VVTi models. With modern standalones and tuning the VVTi offers a very tangible benefit in spool and peak HP. The only real consideration of the difference is in camshaft choices, you have to buy specific VVTi intake cams for VVTi heads and vice versa.

How long anything lasts depends on how it's used and how it's maintained. But once the rods are changed out, a 2JZ-GE VVTi with a turbo setup that is properly tuned for the local fuel will make 400whp basically as long as you keep up on oil changes and basic maintenance, and don't beat the hell out of it every time you drive it. Depending on the turbo setup (specifically, how much tq is made) you very well could be fine at 400whp without even opening the engine.

Regardless of internals or build - harsher use should accelerate your maintenance schedule. It seems obvious, but track day miles are a lot different than highway road trip miles in terms of wear and tear.

You seem genuinely interested in doing your due diligence, but a lot of this has been covered many times in the 10+ years folks have really dug into the VVTi 2JZ's on this forum. So check out some NA-T builds in the builds and projects section, and flex the Google-fu on other 2JZ-GE VVTi turbo builds and if you see anything really weird or want clarity, we're here to help in between some shit-talking here and there 🍺

No need to start a new thread, this one is just fine :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
2JZ-GE VVTi's have weak connecting rods but otherwise it's a non-issue for ~700+whp. Oil squirters are a safety net or for serious endurance racing, basically a matter of preference for your goals. The VVTi 2JZ's have totally different cylinder heads than their non-VVTi older brothers but the valves and the intake and exhaust manifold bolt patterns are the same, so virtually any manifold for a 2JZ-GE will fit both the VVTi and non VVTi models. With modern standalones and tuning the VVTi offers a very tangible benefit in spool and peak HP. The only real consideration of the difference is in camshaft choices, you have to buy specific VVTi intake cams for VVTi heads and vice versa.

How long anything lasts depends on how it's used and how it's maintained. But once the rods are changed out, a 2JZ-GE VVTi with a turbo setup that is properly tuned for the local fuel will make 400whp basically as long as you keep up on oil changes and basic maintenance, and don't beat the hell out of it every time you drive it. Depending on the turbo setup (specifically, how much tq is made) you very well could be fine at 400whp without even opening the engine.

Regardless of internals or build - harsher use should accelerate your maintenance schedule. It seems obvious, but track day miles are a lot different than highway road trip miles in terms of wear and tear.

You seem genuinely interested in doing your due diligence, but a lot of this has been covered many times in the 10+ years folks have really dug into the VVTi 2JZ's on this forum. So check out some NA-T builds in the builds and projects section, and flex the Google-fu on other 2JZ-GE VVTi turbo builds and if you see anything really weird or want clarity, we're here to help in between some shit-talking here and there 🍺

No need to start a new thread, this one is just fine :)
I don't plan on too many track days. Just a highway and city cruiser!

I have a quote from a race shop for a fully built LS1 out of a Corvette for 5500 (CAD). It would likely cost me another 5k to get it in, tuned, and ready to run in terms of electronics and such. I don't think it comes with any accessories or anything.

Yea I've done a lot of research but ruled it out due to the cost of entry and cost of a 2JZ to get it into the mk3 properly, it'd be the same prices for an LS anyways which has brought me to reconsideration.

Thank you for the info, I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions soon!
 

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I don't plan on too many track days. Just a highway and city cruiser!

I have a quote from a race shop for a fully built LS1 out of a Corvette for 5500 (CAD). It would likely cost me another 5k to get it in, tuned, and ready to run in terms of electronics and such. I don't think it comes with any accessories or anything.

Yea I've done a lot of research but ruled it out due to the cost of entry and cost of a 2JZ to get it into the mk3 properly, it'd be the same prices for an LS anyways which has brought me to reconsideration.

Thank you for the info, I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions soon!
I've been party to a LOT of LS swaps, and sometimes into some weird stuff. I haven't LS swapped a Supra, but I can tell you for certain that even if 5500 CAD includes the entire engine assembly (and it actually makes 400+whp, because that's not a guarantee with 'built' LS1's particularly early LS1's), your cost estimate for install and integration into the car is probably low, especially if you intend to make the A/C work.

The 2JZ into a MK3 is a very well known quantity with zero surprises and minimal 'discoveries' when it comes to getting things together. It's formulaic at this point. With particular intake manifolds, turbo manifolds, and turbo combinations of course there's some opportunity for an 'oh shit this doesn't fit' moment but even that can be widely mitigated.

The other net benefit to a 2JZ is that setting it up for 400whp is really no different than whatever your turbo, fuel system, trans, and bottom end can support. Meaning that even with a stock TT rod swap and fresh bearings, you're good for 600+whp with a decent clutch and a healthy R154. Trust me, you think 400whp will scratch the itch now... but I promise it won't for long! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
post pics of the car ,, is it a clean body ,,
how is it running now.
258432

Pardon how dirty it is, its been sitting in the garage all winter getting work done to it, but this is how its sitting now.

The body is really clean. The extent of the bad stuff lies in the paint mostly, having my rear quarter panel clear coat peeled off and an ungodly amount of rock chips up front. There is like two small surface rust areas no bigger than a quarter. The underside has no rust at all, and the trunk is completely clean, which I was very surprised about.

I took out all the trunk interior and inspected it all, even down in the fender pockets there was no rust. My guess would be it was never winter driven. I bought it off an old couple who were actually the original owners they told me.

All panels appear to be original, and the paint is original too.

The interior is absolutely beautiful, apart from some sunfading on the rear seats. No rips or tears and everything is there.

All it needs is paint and some very minor dent repairs, surface rust repair, and it will look brand new.

As for how its running, its giving me a headache daily. I went in and replaced the headgasket and I've been chasing other issues ever since January when I got it back together. Leaks from things I didn't touch or take apart mostly, or other issues like brakes not working and weird clutch noises.

I definitely see the value and reason why 2JZs are swapped into this car, but personally if I have an engine on a stand, I'd be replacing as much as possible before throwing it in and the LS just seems to be the cheapest one for that route.

However, it'd obviously be the hardest one to swap in with fitments and stuff, along with high up front costs (compared to a NA 2JZ)

As for the 1JZ, I literally can't find one anywhere in my province! There was a built big turbo longblock that I could have immediately swapped in for sale for 7k CAD but it was eaten up quick.

2JZs are almost as hard to come buy, but there are a couple GS300s parting out and I can grab one for about 1000 for a full longblock.

I've been party to a LOT of LS swaps, and sometimes into some weird stuff. I haven't LS swapped a Supra, but I can tell you for certain that even if 5500 CAD includes the entire engine assembly (and it actually makes 400+whp, because that's not a guarantee with 'built' LS1's particularly early LS1's), your cost estimate for install and integration into the car is probably low, especially if you intend to make the A/C work.

The 2JZ into a MK3 is a very well known quantity with zero surprises and minimal 'discoveries' when it comes to getting things together. It's formulaic at this point. With particular intake manifolds, turbo manifolds, and turbo combinations of course there's some opportunity for an 'oh shit this doesn't fit' moment but even that can be widely mitigated.

The other net benefit to a 2JZ is that setting it up for 400whp is really no different than whatever your turbo, fuel system, trans, and bottom end can support. Meaning that even with a stock TT rod swap and fresh bearings, you're good for 600+whp with a decent clutch and a healthy R154. Trust me, you think 400whp will scratch the itch now... but I promise it won't for long! :)
5500 CAD is just for a long block is LS6 internals and heads, bigger cam, assembled and sealed to the point where I would not have to worry about opening it up.

Definitely more expensive than a 2JZ of course, but what would my rebuild cost on the JZ run me with the tt rods and such ? Are the stock N/A pistons good ?

Also, would it be feasible to put in a GTE head? Or get real crazy and find a 1JZ head for the 1.5JZ😈

As for buying a cam if I want/need to, would a 2JZGTE cam for VVTI work or do I need the GE cam spec?

All this just makes me realize that I should have just bought a corvette if I wanted an LS, or bought a SC if I wanted a JZ😣
 

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The 2JZ-GE VVTi head is widely considered the best flowing cylinder head in stock form. It absolutely smokes both 1JZ heads. So if you do a 2JZ-GE VVti just focus on the internals and call it a day. The 1.5JZ is great if you've got a 1JZ already and want a super easy 500cc stroker kit. There is absolutely no advantage over a 2JZ. If anything, the ultimate 2.5L JZ involves using the 2JZ-GTE VVTi head on a 1JZ block like Aaron at Driftmotion has done, he's coined it a 1.2JZ. Having seen his car in person I can attest it revs faster and spools faster than a typical 1JZ especially for the 67mm turbo he's running.

Stock NA pistons are heavy but strong. 800whp+ and 7500-8000rpm is just fine with everything else in order. If you wanted to regularly run over 650whp or rev above 8k, though, I would recommend aftermarket forged pistons for the weight reduction and forged rods of course, along with the common upgraded oil pump/ timing gear/ valve springs/retainers/cams for that kind of rev range etc.

None of that is necessary for your HP goals, only addressing the weak VVTi GE rods is required. This is easily and very inexpensively done with stock GTE rods or early GE rods.
Eagle rods are very inexpensive for a 2JZ as well and totally work with the stock pistons for a budget VVTi GE build, but I'd dig deep in the budget to add a set of Manley or similar pistons 'while you're in there' to future proof the block for ~1000whp/800wtq

If sourcing your engine from a GS300 (or any other Toyota Sedan) You'll need a rear sump oil pan setup - upper and lower pans, windage tray, and oil pickup. That can be surprisingly expensive, unfortunately.

Almost any camshaft made for the VVTi 2JZ-GTE also works in the VVTi 2JZ-GE. Stock cams and valvetrain are more than adequate for 500-650whp depending on your turbo setup.

The stock intake manifold is no trouble for 700whp or so, but it does add piping length and complication to the intercooler setup. It also needs to be considered when choosing a turbo manifold for the GE, there's a lot on the market but only a few that really clear a T04S style 4in inlet turbo with good space for downpipe/lines/etc and space above the turbo for IC piping. Interestingly, I saw a CX racing equal length 2JZ-GE T4 manifold in person awhile back and I was impressed with the fitment on a GE with the stock intake manifold.

But there's a lot of front facing intake manifolds on the market as well and some for not such bad prices. Avoid the 'Rev9' style intake as it hits the brake booster and sucks ass for overall flow.

Vs a bare longblock LS6 it'll be cheaper and more powerful, and arguably more desirable to go built VVTi GE.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The 2JZ-GE VVTi head is widely considered the best flowing cylinder head in stock form. It absolutely smokes both 1JZ heads. So if you do a 2JZ-GE VVti just focus on the internals and call it a day. The 1.5JZ is great if you've got a 1JZ already and want a super easy 500cc stroker kit. There is absolutely no advantage over a 2JZ. If anything, the ultimate 2.5L JZ involves using the 2JZ-GTE VVTi head on a 1JZ block like Aaron at Driftmotion has done, he's coined it a 1.2JZ. Having seen his car in person I can attest it revs faster and spools faster than a typical 1JZ especially for the 67mm turbo he's running.

Stock NA pistons are heavy but strong. 800whp+ and 7500-8000rpm is just fine with everything else in order. If you wanted to regularly run over 650whp or rev above 8k, though, I would recommend aftermarket forged pistons for the weight reduction and forged rods of course, along with the common upgraded oil pump/ timing gear/ valve springs/retainers/cams for that kind of rev range etc.

None of that is necessary for your HP goals, only addressing the weak VVTi GE rods is required. This is easily and very inexpensively done with stock GTE rods or early GE rods.
Eagle rods are very inexpensive for a 2JZ as well and totally work with the stock pistons for a budget VVTi GE build, but I'd dig deep in the budget to add a set of Manley or similar pistons 'while you're in there' to future proof the block for ~1000whp/800wtq

If sourcing your engine from a GS300 (or any other Toyota Sedan) You'll need a rear sump oil pan setup - upper and lower pans, windage tray, and oil pickup. That can be surprisingly expensive, unfortunately.

Almost any camshaft made for the VVTi 2JZ-GTE also works in the VVTi 2JZ-GE. Stock cams and valvetrain are more than adequate for 500-650whp depending on your turbo setup.

The stock intake manifold is no trouble for 700whp or so, but it does add piping length and complication to the intercooler setup. It also needs to be considered when choosing a turbo manifold for the GE, there's a lot on the market but only a few that really clear a T04S style 4in inlet turbo with good space for downpipe/lines/etc and space above the turbo for IC piping. Interestingly, I saw a CX racing equal length 2JZ-GE T4 manifold in person awhile back and I was impressed with the fitment on a GE with the stock intake manifold.

But there's a lot of front facing intake manifolds on the market as well and some for not such bad prices. Avoid the 'Rev9' style intake as it hits the brake booster and sucks ass for overall flow.

Vs a bare longblock LS6 it'll be cheaper and more powerful, and arguably more desirable to go built VVTi GE.
I just went in and did a whole whack of research and part pricing for building a 7MGTE.

I essentially found and sourced every part that would require the engine to be out of the car to put on, so all internals and such and a couple external things.

The list was a full engine rebuild with eagle rods and arias pistons, the DM Oil pump, ATI crank pulley, full gasket kit, cometic HG, ARP Hardware, etc etc you know the deal. I also included a flywheel, clutch kit, and MC r154 transmission rebuild kit (All these trans parts run me 2500, not including labor...). Everything that needs the engine out/will not be fun to do with the engine in.

All in all, this list of parts will cost me 7000 including tax and shipping, and its not even half the stuff I wanted to get, or labor. Yes its likely overkill, but my trans has 250k on it and I definitely will not be trusting my 7M to not grenade.

For everything I wanted to do with a 7M, I estimate it will cost me about 20000 CAD for everything, (parts and labor and shipping on EVERYTHING) that I would want to do to acquire my goals reliably, get it tuned and running effectively and perfectly, and not have to yank the engine out for a second time for at least a few years of driving.

So if I want to get my goals with my 7M, then I will need to win a lottery or something to justify that one.

I will be doing the same with a 2JZGE build, but I am not familiar with all the parts I would need. I've taken apart half of my 7M and put it back together and I have a pretty good understanding of what and where each component is, but a 2JZ is rather new to me in terms of parts.

I figure I'm never going to be able to run all of this costs up at once, no matter what engine I choose. It looks like I have a flat fee of about 4-5k for wiring, ecu, and transmission work as I'd be doing it no matter what engine I'd get, and I've wanted to get my R154 rebuilt anyways whether or not my engine is making 230hp or 600hp because of its age and mileage.

If only these people with Gs300 or IS300 would respond to me when I offer them for their engines!!!

Right now, all this engine stuff is making my head swirl. I'm going to have to take a step back and worry about something else I don't understand, like my brake system spontaneously not working after being completely fine for a year.

Will be ordering a master cylinder and new booster as I can't tell what the issue really is, as I'm getting symptoms from failure of both of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The 2JZ-GE VVTi head is widely considered the best flowing cylinder head in stock form. It absolutely smokes both 1JZ heads. So if you do a 2JZ-GE VVti just focus on the internals and call it a day. The 1.5JZ is great if you've got a 1JZ already and want a super easy 500cc stroker kit. There is absolutely no advantage over a 2JZ. If anything, the ultimate 2.5L JZ involves using the 2JZ-GTE VVTi head on a 1JZ block like Aaron at Driftmotion has done, he's coined it a 1.2JZ. Having seen his car in person I can attest it revs faster and spools faster than a typical 1JZ especially for the 67mm turbo he's running.

Stock NA pistons are heavy but strong. 800whp+ and 7500-8000rpm is just fine with everything else in order. If you wanted to regularly run over 650whp or rev above 8k, though, I would recommend aftermarket forged pistons for the weight reduction and forged rods of course, along with the common upgraded oil pump/ timing gear/ valve springs/retainers/cams for that kind of rev range etc.

None of that is necessary for your HP goals, only addressing the weak VVTi GE rods is required. This is easily and very inexpensively done with stock GTE rods or early GE rods.
Eagle rods are very inexpensive for a 2JZ as well and totally work with the stock pistons for a budget VVTi GE build, but I'd dig deep in the budget to add a set of Manley or similar pistons 'while you're in there' to future proof the block for ~1000whp/800wtq

If sourcing your engine from a GS300 (or any other Toyota Sedan) You'll need a rear sump oil pan setup - upper and lower pans, windage tray, and oil pickup. That can be surprisingly expensive, unfortunately.

Almost any camshaft made for the VVTi 2JZ-GTE also works in the VVTi 2JZ-GE. Stock cams and valvetrain are more than adequate for 500-650whp depending on your turbo setup.

The stock intake manifold is no trouble for 700whp or so, but it does add piping length and complication to the intercooler setup. It also needs to be considered when choosing a turbo manifold for the GE, there's a lot on the market but only a few that really clear a T04S style 4in inlet turbo with good space for downpipe/lines/etc and space above the turbo for IC piping. Interestingly, I saw a CX racing equal length 2JZ-GE T4 manifold in person awhile back and I was impressed with the fitment on a GE with the stock intake manifold.

But there's a lot of front facing intake manifolds on the market as well and some for not such bad prices. Avoid the 'Rev9' style intake as it hits the brake booster and sucks ass for overall flow.

Vs a bare longblock LS6 it'll be cheaper and more powerful, and arguably more desirable to go built VVTi GE.
Driftmotion sells a rear sump swap kit. It comes with upper and lower oil pan, oil baffle plate, and oil pickup. Would I need a rear sump 2JZGTE oil dipstick...?

It's about 1200 for the parts + shipping and tax:mad:

I'm not a honda guy so I'm fine with revving to 6.5-7k all day if it means I can save money and my engine at the same time.
 

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For everything I wanted to do with a 7M, I estimate it will cost me about 20000 CAD for everything, (parts and labor and shipping on EVERYTHING) that I would want to do to acquire my goals reliably, get it tuned and running effectively and perfectly, and not have to yank the engine out for a second time for at least a few years of driving.
LOL
 

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Can't tell if you're calling me stupid or not lol. but the stuff is expensive!

Essentially I'd be putting a entirely "brand new" assembled long block in with a rebuilt trans, standalone ecu, and big turbo, with all new accessories and external components, forged internals, and the elimination of any and all weakpoints of a 7M.

Again, not planning on going this route. I could easily slap on the typical 7M modifications to get to my goal right now but I don't want to deal with blown stuff after 5 pulls because of my engines age and wear, or a blown transmission because a 250k km component decided it was its time to give up after all these years.

Say I just went and did it simply.

Eagle rods, .02 over pistons, block machined appropriately and head too for a MHG, and I left the head stock. I'm still looking at a price of at least 2500, if I don't do it now, I will have to do it one day. turbo kit and such and I'm sitting at 4000 invested. AEM Infinity or ECUmaster pnp is about 1500, plus the tuning and wiring and such to add onto it. I'll need a new clutch fairly soon after I reckon. Cooling system, intercooling system, not to mention gauges for the added monitoring capabilities. Fuel system upgrades.

I'm not saying it can't be done, clearly people have done it and kept it going for decades now, but personally I don't trust anything in my engine bay further than it can roll down my driveway, this car has been one issue after another and I don't like chasing gremlins, especially if they can really screw my invest up in a split second.

Next think I know, my alternator goes, power steering goes, etc etc. Call me paranoid but thats exactly how I've avoided my cars having huge issues (I "used to" be a german car guy, and Im treating this supra the same lol).

My opinion is that either way I handle it, I'm likely spending the same amount, whether its all at once or spread over a few years, its all the same. But I know I can get parts now, it's not guaranteed I can in 5 years, for any of these engines.

Maybe I am just overthinking it all and making a mistake doing so!
 

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Driftmotion sells a rear sump swap kit. It comes with upper and lower oil pan, oil baffle plate, and oil pickup. Would I need a rear sump 2JZGTE oil dipstick...?

It's about 1200 for the parts + shipping and tax:mad:

I'm not a honda guy so I'm fine with revving to 6.5-7k all day if it means I can save money and my engine at the same time.
A 2JZ-GE or GTE rear sump pan and dipstick can be made to work just fine. No worries there. Yes, new shiny parts are awesome but sometimes you can find an old SC300 and gank a pan off of that. Used they're around $300-500 USD for a complete setup so that's an easy place to save some cash, new doesn't make a difference really. The only difference in the GE rear sump is the oil drain port for the turbo(s) needs to be drilled out and threaded.

Once you've heard a 2JZ-GTE revving to 9k with a big ass turbo setup, you'll want to hear it again, I promise that! But being sensible with a ~7500rpm rev limit is just fine too, especially for your overall goals.

@Captain has a 7M-GTE build ongoing that has a breathtaking number of extremely high end custom parts involved. I'd wager it's among the top three extreme 7M-GTE builds ever done.
So, if anything, I'm sure it's a joke about any amount of money making a 7M-GTE reliable.
Or maybe he's laughing because its easier to laugh than it is to cry, as he thinks about how much more he's invested in his own build. Either way, no offense meant of that I'm 100% sure.

The rest of your formula for a nicely sorted out 7M-GTE really isn't too far off. Your attention to detail is exactly the sort of thing that will lead to success, whichever engine you choose!
 

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I LS swapped my 88 last summer with the whole intention of having a reliable 400whp setup. I picked up a relatively low mile LS1/T56 with the stock LS ECU and harness out of a 99 F-body for $5000. I threw in a Texas Speed cam, dual valve springs, new valve guides and seals, rebuilt the trunnion bearings, swapped over to LS6 cylinder heads and LS6 intake, installed a new clutch, new fuel pump and fuel lines, driveshaft shop custom driveshaft, a Tweak'd performance LS to Toyota custom harness, and a whole lot of other custom parts. I spent a lot upfront to do all these mods while the engine was out of the car, because I wanted to put the engine in and not touch it and just drive the car. You could make 400whp cheaper if you went the LQ iron block route out of a GM truck as mentioned above. I went with the pricier LS1 because I wanted the aluminum block to keep weight down a smidge and not swap front accessories. I did this swap myself over the course of a few months and can only image what the labor cost would be if a shop did it. The swap was relatively easy, just very time consuming as there isn't much info on it and pretty much everything has to be custom made. I did not have time to get it tuned before winter hit in Michigan but with the mods I've done, it should be good for high 300whp or maybe low 400s. I have a few things to tidy up and some bugs to work out but I'm super happy with the swap so far and it sounds so nasty!!

IMG_9702.JPG
 

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Brake booster delete, Coors Light brand radiator overflow tank, that's some Git-R-Dun but the rest is really clean work!

How do the brakes feel after the booster delete?
I'm also curious about the oil pan, headers, and engine mounts you used. Nice build!
 

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Can't tell if you're calling me stupid or not lol. but the stuff is expensive!
It's mostly this:
Or maybe he's laughing because its easier to laugh than it is to cry, as he thinks about how much more he's invested in his own build. Either way, no offense meant of that I'm 100% sure.
but since you mentioned this:
Can't tell if you're calling me stupid or not
the laws of the internet require me to go with that.

You're stupid.

And now that that is out of the way, the long ass post that I had typed up in condensed and simplified form before I "LOLd" the entire thing.

The issue at hand appears to be the lack of a definitive final outcome goal. You say 400hp but then meander on to building up to hold whatever you may want to throw at it later. If you truly want more than 400hp you realistically need to just dispose of the notion of building for 400hp and set a real target. A reliable and affordable 400hp 7M is actually fairly easy and comes in well under $20k. That same build however isn't very reliable north of 500hp.

Having "soft goals", i.e. goals with no hard/set outcome, almost never work and you end up with $20k in a build that doesn't even look like a car, much less is a reliable daily driver. Set a desired outcome, and stick to it.

but personally I don't trust anything in my engine bay further than it can roll down my driveway
Fix this before starting any type of swap or build, as they tend to complicate any prior issues.

Maybe I am just overthinking it all and making a mistake doing so!
Nope, opposite actually. It's rather refreshing to see someone look at it from this point of view instead of YOLOing it and whining when pistons develop windows.
 
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