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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Great. Now my 7M is noticeable burning oil. When I rev it, it starts blowing blue smoke. Awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Update: So my 7M has low compression on cyl 3 at 50psi. Blowing blue smoke and has starting issues. My fresh sparkplugs are already blackened completely too.

I did just replace my headgasket and got new valve seals/guides done at the machine shop. I torqued my arp studs down properly and in the correct pattern and there is no issues in the cooling system or in the oil itself as far as I can tell. I'm not saying it can't be my headgasket, but there is no obvious reasons as to it being the cause of my issues, for god's sake the car hasn't even driven yet and hasn't hit boost on the new gasket.

It's leading me to believe the machine shop messed up on my valvetrain rebuild, or I spontaneously blew a piston ring without even driving the car??

or do I need a valve adjustment or something? My first and second cylinders were at 120 and 145psi respectively, after seeing the 50psi 4 times in a row I didn't have the heart to continue through the other ones.

My idle rpms stay smooth but my exhaust is extremely choppy, I do have an exhaust leak. I have the issue with starting it up. It takes 2 tries to start up and its rough for about 10s and then is perfectly fine. It revs smooth, but then blows blue smoke.

I am also considering a simple 7M build as the guy with the rear sump pan isn't responding anymore. If I pick my parts right and assemble it myself, it's my cheapest option as I don't need a custom wiring harness and the standalones come with a pnp harness apparently (for the entire engine, or is it just an adapter to fit the stock ecu connector to the standalone connector?)

God this entire thing is making me hate owning a vehicle. My truck clutch cylinders just blew, my BMW e28 needs a headgasket, and now my supra might need an engine. Awesome.
 

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3500 feet elevation... hmm. I LOVE response, personally, above all other things. Max power doesn't matter to me because you rarely spend much time at peak power on most tracks or pretty much any autocross course. So for me, the G25 is awesome. However, with the added displacement of the 2j, and if you're smart and go with the vvti (what I originally intended to do, and really should have...) then I'd give a hearty recommendation to the G30.

I have a great friend that lives up in Red Deer, also a big big big fan of 2j's. He's sticking one in a rather unconventional home brew car, but that's all I will say in case he is wanting to keep it a secret for now. Either way, You're not alone in your enthusiasm up there!

34 year old vehicle woes, is another consideration here. It has been my unfortunate experience that even if you buy the very best of parts, and put together a more or less solid build, there are still things that can go wrong, on account of being an older vehicle. Personally I'd recommend keeping on the 2j route for yours, as parts availability for the 7m, though not horrible... isn't as good or plentiful as it is for the 2j. I mean, you can still buy a new short block, from Toyota? You can buy a 3.4L stroker for the 2j? You can even buy aluminum blocks, for crying out loud. Try finding a brand new head or block for a 7m sometime. I think you'll sooner find a unicorn that poops out gold ingots.

But... I'd be a liar if I told you that a 7m isn't one of my very favorite sounding engines.

All in all, reading through this thread reminds me of where I was back in 2008, mentally. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Update 2.0

My compression test is as follows.

120psi
140psi
40psi
0psi
140psi
120psi

Cylinders 1-6 respectively. Yes, cylinder 4 literally had no compression, I couldn't get anything on my gauge. Tried 4 times and nothing each time. Not sure how to proceed, but I am working on taking off the valve covers to see if I can see anything wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
3500 feet elevation... hmm. I LOVE response, personally, above all other things. Max power doesn't matter to me because you rarely spend much time at peak power on most tracks or pretty much any autocross course. So for me, the G25 is awesome. However, with the added displacement of the 2j, and if you're smart and go with the vvti (what I originally intended to do, and really should have...) then I'd give a hearty recommendation to the G30.

I have a great friend that lives up in Red Deer, also a big big big fan of 2j's. He's sticking one in a rather unconventional home brew car, but that's all I will say in case he is wanting to keep it a secret for now. Either way, You're not alone in your enthusiasm up there!

34 year old vehicle woes, is another consideration here. It has been my unfortunate experience that even if you buy the very best of parts, and put together a more or less solid build, there are still things that can go wrong, on account of being an older vehicle. Personally I'd recommend keeping on the 2j route for yours, as parts availability for the 7m, though not horrible... isn't as good or plentiful as it is for the 2j. I mean, you can still buy a new short block, from Toyota? You can buy a 3.4L stroker for the 2j? You can even buy aluminum blocks, for crying out loud. Try finding a brand new head or block for a 7m sometime. I think you'll sooner find a unicorn that poops out gold ingots.

But... I'd be a liar if I told you that a 7m isn't one of my very favorite sounding engines.

All in all, reading through this thread reminds me of where I was back in 2008, mentally. :)
Yea, my parts options are okay right now, although quite expensive. 2JZ parts aren't any cheaper, there's just more parts out there I guess.

My issue with a 2JZ is the initial cost to swap it in, I need the bellhousing and rear sump which are 1500, plus the engine itself which is 1000. A tweak'd wiring harness is 2000, and then I still have the extra thousands of dollars in stuff I'd do to my 7M anyways as I'd do the same sorta things, which makes it kind of hard to justify when I can easily make the same power goals on my 7M. I'm not sure.
 

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Yea, my parts options are okay right now, although quite expensive. 2JZ parts aren't any cheaper, there's just more parts out there I guess.

My issue with a 2JZ is the initial cost to swap it in, I need the bellhousing and rear sump which are 1500, plus the engine itself which is 1000. A tweak'd wiring harness is 2000, and then I still have the extra thousands of dollars in stuff I'd do to my 7M anyways as I'd do the same sorta things, which makes it kind of hard to justify when I can easily make the same power goals on my 7M. I'm not sure.
dude, im in the same boat..i know this debate has been going on for ages lol but yea im with you, i have a 7m and everything needed to make it work again in the car...as tempting as the 2j is you gotta take into account that if you do a full rebuild and do it right youre probably far better off than buying a 2j and all the parts just to make it work in the chasis would ammount to probably more than it would to get a completely fresh 7m...i still go back n forth though ahah but ive settled on making this 7m work again.
 

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Costs definitely add up, I certainly can't argue that point. That's part of the reason my other fun car is a Miata.

On the subject of parts availability, even if the same parts for either engine are equally priced, does it matter if you can't GET certain parts? I mean, the last 7m was made in what, 1992, maybe 1993? They were put into Supras, Soarers, Crowns, and Cressidas that I'm aware of. Now the 2j, in comparison, was put into all those cars (minus the Cressida), and about... what, nearly a dozen more cars throughout the 90's and 2000's?

That, the head gasket issue was fixed, the oiling system was greatly improved, and you have the option of vvti, all good things. :)

I know it might seem counterintuitive, but if you're in this for the long haul, sometimes the more expensive option up front is the cheaper option in the long run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Costs definitely add up, I certainly can't argue that point. That's part of the reason my other fun car is a Miata.

On the subject of parts availability, even if the same parts for either engine are equally priced, does it matter if you can't GET certain parts? I mean, the last 7m was made in what, 1992, maybe 1993? They were put into Supras, Soarers, Crowns, and Cressidas that I'm aware of. Now the 2j, in comparison, was put into all those cars (minus the Cressida), and about... what, nearly a dozen more cars throughout the 90's and 2000's?

That, the head gasket issue was fixed, the oiling system was greatly improved, and you have the option of vvti, all good things. :)

I know it might seem counterintuitive, but if you're in this for the long haul, sometimes the more expensive option up front is the cheaper option in the long run.
I completely agree with everything you said. A 2JZ is definitely going to be less headache in the long run, but far costlier right now because of me needing to get the swap kit and wiring harness.

My leakdown test didn't provide good results. Cylinder 4 is leaking into 2, cylinder 1 is leaking into 5. I dont know about you, but I dont think a headgasket leak would allow the air to skip 3 cylinders. Valves closed and seated properly too. No coolant bubbling. I think my piston rings/block walls went bad.

Without even driving it. I wonder if a lean condition wwhen revving caused detonation or something, but its really looking like I'm going to need a new engine.

I'm just unsure. I know the 7M basically inside and out and how to work on it and perform repairs and maintenance. I know what parts I need and dont need and I know exactly how it works.

While a 2J is definitely the better motor, it's also wildly more expensive after adding everything up and for my goals and purposes, a well built 7M will handle it just as well as a well built 2JZ. But again, the issue would lie in the future.

Either way, I don't have the funds for either build. I'm either going to work my ass off this summer to build it, or just part the car out to get as much money as I can out of it and buy something else.

Its hard justifying the cost on this car, but then I realize there's barely any cars I would consider replacing it with, and I'd likely be having the exact same expenditures with an different car.

I am leaning towards the 7M build as its more realistic for me right now, and its an engine I know and have learned already.

Seems rather unrealistic for me to come up with ~15k in less than 4 months for a decent 2JZ build. Just the engine rebuild alone is 6k if I get the shop to put it back together. Same cost on the 7M, but at least I dont need the additional 2000 swap kit ans 2000 wiring harness.

Decisions decisions.

Rather disappointed with my 7m currently, just dying on me after replacing the headgasket. I'm rather convinced its the piston rings, considering that cyl 4 doesnt leak into cyl 3 at all, yet both had low compression.

But yea, after a lot of parts research and deciding, I'm definitely leaning towards the 7M. Proper MHG, Eagle rods, and the driftmotion upgraded oil pump pretty much solve the big internal engine issues (when at bigger power) to my understanding. Its a rather simple motor compared to all these newer ones. After getting a FFIM and better Turbo setup, it will be a lot nicer to work on too.

I cannot describe how much hatred I have for the ct26 oil hardline.
 

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Either way, I don't have the funds for either build.
Problem #1. Fix this before even thinking about a motor build.

(for the entire engine, or is it just an adapter to fit the stock ecu connector to the standalone connector?)
Typically it's just a jumper harness to adapt the OEM engine harness to the aftermarket ECU.

Rather disappointed with my 7m currently, just dying on me after replacing the headgasket. I'm rather convinced its the piston rings, considering that cyl 4 doesnt leak into cyl 3 at all, yet both had low compression.
Sounds to me like you had some issues with the pistons before the HG job. Did you do a leakdown before tearing down for the head gasket?

parts availability for the 7m, though not horrible...
Know how I know you haven't tried to build a 7M recently?
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Problem #1. Fix this before even thinking about a motor build.


Typically it's just a jumper harness to adapt the OEM engine harness to the aftermarket ECU.


Sounds to me like you had some issues with the pistons before the HG job. Did you do a leakdown before tearing down for the head gasket?
Oh don't worry, I'm working my ass off so I can get this done properly. I'm definitely not the type to cheap out, especially after primarily owning german cars...

Stupid me didn't do a leakdown or even a compression test before the headgasket - my headgasket was blown mind you, there was a decent break in it at cyl 6 - but yea never tested pistons. It didn't noticeably burn oil, have starting issues, or run awfully before - so I didn't think to do it.

And after running the leakdown and compression test, it really isn't looking like its my head/gasket/valve train, I can't see any leaking anywhere and as far as I know, there's no way for air to travel from cyl 1 to cyl 5 unless its going through the crankcase? I had the valves closed and valve covers off so it couldn't leak up top without me noticing, and there was zero air in 2-4 (I had all sparkplugs out and a small piece of paper to see where the airflow was coming from).
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
how about an LS lol
7M is simply cheaper to get done, and easier, and fits my needs too for now. Maybe later down the road when I'm not a broke university student I can afford a 2JZ or LS if the 7M decides to crap out again.

EDIT: Cheaper to get done how I plan to do it*** It will cost me about 10-12k to get to 400whp (6k is just the engine internal machining, labor, and parts, machine shop rip people off in my area). I don't have to buy a 2000 wiring harness, 1500 swap kit, or spend the initial cost of the engine (minimum 1000 for a 2JZGE Longblock assembly). a LS or JZ build is running me 15-20k depending how far I do, doesn't seem reasonable when I could repaint my car for the difference between the motor build costs.
 

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I can't see any leaking anywhere and as far as I know, there's no way for air to travel from cyl 1 to cyl 5 unless its going through the crankcase?
That's pretty much it, but there are other paths of less resistance for the air to escape the crankcase than through another piston. Unless that piston is missing some large chunks.....
Reeving the motor without a load on it really shouldn't induce detonation sever enough to break off some ring lands unless they were severely damaged before, hence why I am thinking this issue existed before the HG job and it just wasn't known.

DIT: Cheaper to get done how I plan to do it*** It will cost me about 10-12k to get to 400whp (6k is just the engine internal machining, labor, and parts, machine shop rip people off in my area). I don't have to buy a 2000 wiring harness, 1500 swap kit, or spend the initial cost of the engine (minimum 1000 for a 2JZGE Longblock assembly). a LS or JZ build is running me 15-20k depending how far I do, doesn't seem reasonable when I could repaint my car for the difference between the motor build costs.
Something I would suggest in your position: buy a built long block from a reputable shop. 2JZ Motorsports, Real Street Performance, Titan, etc. The cost up front will be higher but you end up with a much better motor than having some shop that might build 3 or 4 JZs a year scalp you on machine work costs.

If you intend to stick with the 7M in the long run this really isn't an option though. Not many people do much with the 7M, as I am sure you've discovered. But the 7M is actually quite capable of supporting the initial goal of 400hp that will ultimately evolve into 500hp and probably evolve again into 600hp. You just need to take the time to do it properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
That's pretty much it, but there are other paths of less resistance for the air to escape the crankcase than through another piston. Unless that piston is missing some large chunks.....
Reeving the motor without a load on it really shouldn't induce detonation sever enough to break off some ring lands unless they were severely damaged before, hence why I am thinking this issue existed before the HG job and it just wasn't known.


Something I would suggest in your position: buy a built long block from a reputable shop. 2JZ Motorsports, Real Street Performance, Titan, etc. The cost up front will be higher but you end up with a much better motor than having some shop that might build 3 or 4 JZs a year scalp you on machine work costs.

If you intend to stick with the 7M in the long run this really isn't an option though. Not many people do much with the 7M, as I am sure you've discovered. But the 7M is actually quite capable of supporting the initial goal of 400hp that will ultimately evolve into 500hp and probably evolve again into 600hp. You just need to take the time to do it properly.
Well its coming from the sparkplug hole so it's getting into the cylinder somehow. I'm going to pull my dipstick and see if I can feel/hear air coming from down there.

You are likely right that the issue was there before, there just werent many symptoms pointing to it.

Yes. The 7M isn't nearly as popular as the JZ motors, but it shouldnt be that difficult. I have a learned there is a 7MGTE expert here in Calgary at RCTS, so I'll be definitely calling him up.

A built longblock isn't an option here sadly. I won't ever get enough money in the next two years to afford it all. I can't justify it and parting the car out would be my other option.

I'm fairly confident I can do my 7M properly, driftmotion has experience building them and offers many many parts I'd need.

Its a mess for sure.
 

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Know how I know you haven't tried to build a 7M recently?
I try not to touch them any more than I have to, they're like dealing with fine china... in my hands... not a good thing. :p

But I'll bite, has parts availability gotten magically better, or has it gotten substantially worse?

Something I would suggest in your position: buy a built long block from a reputable shop. You just need to take the time to do it properly.
Man... I wish I had done that. For what I paid for my 1j that has never not leaked, I could have bought a 3.4L from any of the places you mentioned. Not having had that experience, I'm going off a hunch here, but I bet their engines don't leak. Compare that to small town local shop, who built an engine that makes power, sure, but the little things matter when you're spending this sort of money. It's not a junk yard engine, it didn't leak before, but does now? WHY?

That's my experience.

@SoupraWorm May I ask the reasoning behind your time frame? I feel like we're missing a piece of the puzzle here. Also, wanna know the biggest similarity between a built 7M and a stock 2j? They'll both handle 600hp if you build the 7M right. Toyota did all the hard work for you with the 2j though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
@SoupraWorm May I ask the reasoning behind your time frame? I feel like we're missing a piece of the puzzle here. Also, wanna know the biggest similarity between a built 7M and a stock 2j? They'll both handle 600hp if you build the 7M right. Toyota did all the hard work for you with the 2j though.
For parts availability, I haven't had issues sourcing any part that I can think that I need. Are they pricey? Yes, very, but they are also available relatively easily if I can find them, of all people.

The two year quote wasnt a time frame, I was just saying that it will take me well over two years to build (afford) one of those.

I don't necessarily have a time frame, but I wouldnt mind yknow, actually driving the car sooner rather than later.

I bought this car as a driver, not a show or track car. I would have bought a restoration project if it was my plan to keep it in the garage on jacks for years.

It's just annoying to me. Thats all. I was expecting it to be in garage more than on the road, I just wasnt planning on this predicament quite so soon.

But I'll just get through it and build it.

Still considering the 2J of course. I'm not going to do anything with an engine until I have the funds like Captain said. I will not be half-assing this with sub par parts.
 

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But I'll bite, has parts availability gotten magically better, or has it gotten substantially worse?
Yes. Which is to say, there's been some more shops putting parts out for them but the majority of the stuff that was off the shelf 5 years ago is now a custom/built on order kinda deal. The real killer is all the small OEM parts that are needed but discontinued.

Not having had that experience, I'm going off a hunch here, but I bet their engines don't leak.
I was checking out a built 3.0L from 2JZ Motorsports a little while back and it was spotless. The owner wasn't the kind to spend much time wiping the motor down either. I think a lot of it comes down to the quality of the parts and the amount of attention put into the assembly. Your typical machine shop will use whatever part is available at the local parts wholesaler and throw it together without much care past "is it assembled per the book?" These shops that know the JZ in and out seem to put much more effort into their builds, especially as their reputations typically lay on the product they put out.

It's just annoying to me. Thats all. I was expecting it to be in garage more than on the road, I just wasnt planning on this predicament quite so soon.
The 7M and MK3, in a nutshell.

But I'll just get through it and build it.
Where you're at with the 7M is as good a starting point as any. Sounds like you're going to need to do pistons so why not get a proper set of forged pistons instead of stock replacements? It's obviously more money upfront but you'll need to do machine work anyways, and forged pistons typically require different piston to wall clearances so it's not like you can hot swap some forged pistons in later on down the road.

I don't necessarily have a time frame, but I wouldnt mind yknow, actually driving the car sooner rather than later.
As great as the temptation may be, convince yourself that the car wont be on the road until next spring/summer. This will give you a year to get a good motor build in and you won't have to worry about it next year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
The 7M and MK3, in a nutshell.
Oh well. I'd be in the same situation with any car that I'd want Im sure. Keeps it "interesting" but its better than owning a boring car for me.
Where you're at with the 7M is as good a starting point as any. Sounds like you're going to need to do pistons so why not get a proper set of forged pistons instead of stock replacements? It's obviously more money upfront but you'll need to do machine work anyways, and forged pistons typically require different piston to wall clearances so it's not like you can hot swap some forged pistons in later on down the road.
Yes I am price planning for Arias pistons (The only JE pistons I can find are 1200 for some reason), Eagle rods, a MLS headgasket, etc. I'm going to be pulling my engine and taking it apart after I run a few more leakdown tests on it, and hopefully getting my machine work done before winter. I can build it in the garage over winter, but I would hate to have to deal with hauling an engine to the shop with icy roads and cold temps.

As great as the temptation may be, convince yourself that the car wont be on the road until next spring/summer. This will give you a year to get a good motor build in and you won't have to worry about it next year.
No doubt about it. My pessimism is making me plan to not drive the car until the summer after next one! I've reserved myself to missing out on the car this year, and depending on how much work I can do through my next year of school will be the determining factor for if the car drives.

I am mostly planning to work first, get the money, then see if I can do as for engine. If I go with my 7M build, I'll have enough money left over (theoretically) to rebuild my 250k km transmission, which is a nice thing to throw in if the money is there.

At least my little d21 hardbody drives :) It's lucky its been so good to me, or else it would be gone in a second for the supra build...
 

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if intake valve 5 is open and you have air leaking into the intake manifold through a bad valve in #1 then you could get air from 1 to 5.
 
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