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Probably no need to remove it, I think I mis-communicated my intentions.

So let me ask this the right way. I want to install gsc s1 cams, I know I need new springs and valve stem seals. If I take my car to a shop and have this done how much labor for the following.

New Cams/Shimmed to spec
New Timing Belt
New Cam Gears
New Springs/retainers if needed
New Valve Stem Seals
New Timing Tensioner
Cool, that makes a significant difference. The head seemed like "unnecessary" labor and everything above makes sense to do at the same time.
 

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adammackintosh.net
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its probably my fault for mentioning removing the head. its what i would do but lots of people are weary of pointlessly removing it.

you dont definitely dont need to but i would rather see you gain skill by doing it and taking your head into the machine shop rather than taking your car to a shop and having them do everything for you.
you will get raped so bad cost wise if you do that. even if they just re&re cams it will be hundreds of dollars which you might aswell remove the head and gets lots of "free parts" by doing it yourself.
instead of paying hours of labour, pay for arp studs and new waterpump.

thats the angle im coming from. dont be confused by my mention of machine shop. its only because you dont have tools do remove the springs yourself. if you do then you can save even more money and get more "free parts"

you can also just remove the valve cover gaskets ($20 only replace if they are hard and crusty) and do everything from your garage without removing the head. personally i think that takes more skill than removing the head and bringing it to the machine shop.

im not saying "rebuild" your head. im just saying they will take it apart and put it back together with new valve stem seals and then clearance your new cams while they install them. it will be like $200 if you bring them everything they need.
i would also recommend either way you purchase new cam seals from toyota. their like $5 and seal the end of the camshaft. very important 'gasket'

listen to your friend telling you to do it without removing the head. he knows whats up. 2jz head is no rocket science if your familiar with overhead cam removal/reinstall.

the toyota manual is beautiful for this job. it explains everything you need as long as you have a torque wrench and basic sockets. (and a skinny socket to install arp studs

if your not comfortable trying it then dont. i dont want to stress you out too bad. it sounds like your on the right track.

youll definitely want springs for those aggressive cams. to prevent valve float at high rpm which can cause spitting shim.
besides taht you dont even need new valve stem seals but why the hell not. its only $50 and will prevent burning oil and fixing it later.
after that its just install and clearance cams.

so cost wise you may come out ok letting someone else do everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
its probably my fault for mentioning removing the head. its what i would do but lots of people are weary of pointlessly removing it.

you dont definitely dont need to but i would rather see you gain skill by doing it and taking your head into the machine shop rather than taking your car to a shop and having them do everything for you..
Your definitely right about the learning opportunity and its something I really should go through, my issue is just it will take me much longer than it should and I already have trouble finding the time I need to work on it. I'd like to have them installed and be able to test them on the drag strip while their still open this year, but if I just wait until winter I could take my time and do it myself.

I change my mind sporadically on stuff like this so there's no telling what I'll do. But I appreciate the advice and of course saving $$ is a big deal in how quick I get to my final product so its probably better decision to just do it myself.
 

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I recently did my VSS and cams and i have 2 kids and a wife to worry about. It takes time to do this and if you dont have the time, it might be better to just take it and get it done, but when i was done with it, i felt better because I did the job and I learned a lot of things out of it. It did suck doing it in a hot garage, but if you have a free weekend, you can do it then... Ohh i also had to buy all of the tools, including the toyotool, and that tool helped out bigtime!!
 

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adammackintosh.net
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yea it takes some serious blood and hours.

i actually had my buddy help me (all 3 times). we are both mechanically inclined and had no idea what we were doing or what to expect.

people were always like "yea it only takes 3 hours" for this and that, but it took is like 5 hours for 2 people to do this so called 3 hour stuff. the list goes on. but you and your friend could do it all in 2 days i bet assuming you both had the days completely free and a second vehicle to drive to the parts store 93467 times.

i actually have a lot of pictures in my build thread if you find that and look at the more recent pages. you might be able to scope the situation more accurately.

i will actually explain it mostly to you right now VERY roughly:

1) remove turbo/exhaust manifold
2) remove battery/intake plenum/throttle body
3) i recommend removing the radiator so you can literally stand inside the engine bay and sit on the top cross member. aw yea.
3.5) at least remove the fan clutch+fan... and remove accessory belt/loosen alternator
4) remove crank damper (always an annoying task)
5) once thats off take apart the timing covers and expose everything, then take off the timing belt and cam gears (make sure motor is at TDC although not important at all for this stage)
note: you can remove the intake runners at any point aswell but if youve had them removed before you can re-install them so that you can plan to leave them on if you remove the head. this will save lots of effort and you can just pull the head off with the intake runners still on. if youve never removed it you will encounter some issues with wiring harness below and engine grounds. horrid stuff to get at.
6) head will eb fully exposed and ready to go
7) remove valve covers and follow TSRM to remove camshafts. you need to remove them to access the head bolts
8) boom head is ready to come off. spin out the head bolts in the order on the TSRM (like i keep saying just follow the TSRM and youll have no problem :))

9) this is where you rip the head off and take it to the machine shop and they charge you $200 to take it apart/clean it/install VSS/springs and put it back together and clearance the cams. i always forget but you can tell them to leave teh cams out. my machine shop both times reinstalled them so i had to waste time removing them again at home so i could access the head stud holes.
dont quote me on that $200 tho. thats what it cost me. only took them 2 hours but they didnt have to do much in the way of clearance on mine since they were already done before.

10) head is ready to reinstall. process is reverse but here is a couple snippets:

11) prepare block/head (maybe you got machine shop to mill it a hair to flatten the mating surface) its very important to have flat surface with correct RA smoothness when using metal layer steel gaskets such as any 2jz head gasket. so dont fuck around and slack off or use crazy abrasive/sharp scrapers.
important: skip to below and put the crank to correct position before laying the head onto the block if you have interference cams. which you do.
12) put head on block dowels and then put the ARP stud washers into the block before you screw in the ARP studs hand tight. take care not to drop washer into oil/coolant galleries
13) obviously just continue until everything is put back together.

the cams are interference and like i said i would tell you about that process so here it is:

how to do timing with interference cams--->
spin crankshaft to about 10 o'clock if 12oclock is cyl#1 TDC. you want it like 5-15 degrees before TDC which will make cylinder #1 on its way back up to TDC but obviously not fully there. this will allow you to install the head without risk of bending any valves BECAUSE no piston is at TDC (aka piston 1 and 6. they will be about half to 1 inch below TDC thus giving plenty of room for even the craziest valves known to man)
then just install the head as per the TSRM. you can follow it exactly. including any cam spinning that is required. (if you havent read it gets you to tighten cam caps and then spin each cam to 12 oclock > 4oclock > 8oclock to tighten the cam caps correctly.
that process will bend the valves if a piston is at TDC.
once the head is all fully installed and torqued, you can put both cam gears at 12 oclock and then AFTER spin the crankshaft back to 0 TDC. then install the timing belt and you are done.

i say that loosely since the process is a bit haywire because if you are like me you will probably install the bottom timing cover and crank damper to put the crank back to 0 TDC, then remove them again and install the belt....
after that its back to following the TSRM.
during these steps you will be dealing with the timing tensioner stuff.

holy shit what a long post rofl.

i have more thoughts on this but its really just a lot of rambling on so ill make like a tree and leaf you with that.
 

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Turbo Guy
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I had my head refreshed at Superior Automotive in Anaheim, California.

I spent $600+

I brought the cylinder head to them assembled

Head was dipped to get cleaned
Mating surface was resurfaced
Valve seats were reseated to mate properly with the stock valves
Installed new Valve Stem Seals (Provided by me)
Reshimmed the Cam Lobe to Shim clearance
Assembled the cylinder head including the BC single springs with titanium retainers

I went ahead and bought ARP head studs (might as well)

I should have had them port the head while it was being done. I think that would have made a significant difference and installed Ferrea stock sized valves
 

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adammackintosh.net
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thats what i did, i looked at the price of installing all new ferrea hardware and ended up just buying a ported and built head off supraforums. i had a valve issue though...

i usually dont regret that purchase. it rationalized the cost of porting. i dont normally endorse that or +1mm valves.
 

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Discussion Starter #28

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adammackintosh.net
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you know you wanna do it man. dont let some bums at a shop touch your shit. imagine all the engine bay cleaning you can do along the way.

i know its not really a matter of "can i do this". more of a research plan into which method will be the best.

if you dont have any time and you really wanna test the cams out then you should probably have a shop just do it. but on the other hand... you have different fingers

its not that hard for a shop to remove the valve covers and do this. after all its only like 16 bolts and the valve covers pop right off (after you remove the pcv hose(s) and coilpacks)

then they just have to pop off about...... 8 or so cam caps per side. so thats like 16 cam caps and the camshafts will be out. then they can pop off the buckets and install springs. im not actually sure whats involved with that process but im just gonna guess that they will throw a rope down your spark plug holes to stop the valves from falling down. then they will swap valvesprings and do the stem seals. then they will install the new cams and torque the cam caps down. the whole process so far probably taking a couple hours for a down syndrome apprentice mechanic.
then they will clearance the cams which as far as i can tell is a bit tricky because you cant really adjust anything. youd have to measure the current clearance, then remove the camshafts and install a new shim to achieve the correct clearance. which most likely is going to involve ordering upwards of 24 new shims from toyota.
then it will take 24 hours waiting if you are lucky.
then they will bomb the shims into the head and put it back together in another hour or 2 and youll be done right?

so thats what like 4 hours on the book? something like that. maybe 3, maybe 8. ($300-800)

you should go ask what they quote for a price.

my estimates also assume they leave the timing belt on. you can just tape it to the timing cover and maintain crankshaft timing. but if the belt skips a tooth theyre gonna have to take the crank damper off and re-do the timing which is gonna add like an hour or 2 gauranteed.
 

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^^^ I agree. Not really that big of a deal assuming you have some time and patience. As for doing the springs, you can use a nylon rope to hold the valves up but I prefer to use an air line(from an air compressor) with a fitting on the end of it that will thread into the spark plug hole. Once the air line is screwed into the spark plug hole, apply pressure from the compressor and Viola, the valves will stay put. You can do valve seals while your there.
 

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Also, I believe there is a part number for the Toyota SST that I described above but I don't have it off the top of my head. This can easily be made as it's basically just a compression tester minus the gauge and with a fitting that will plug into an air line.
 

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you know you wanna do it man. dont let some bums at a shop touch your shit. imagine all the engine bay cleaning you can do along the way.

i know its not really a matter of "can i do this". more of a research plan into which method will be the best.

if you dont have any time and you really wanna test the cams out then you should probably have a shop just do it. but on the other hand... you have different fingers

its not that hard for a shop to remove the valve covers and do this. after all its only like 16 bolts and the valve covers pop right off (after you remove the pcv hose(s) and coilpacks)

then they just have to pop off about...... 8 or so cam caps per side. so thats like 16 cam caps and the camshafts will be out. then they can pop off the buckets and install springs. im not actually sure whats involved with that process but im just gonna guess that they will throw a rope down your spark plug holes to stop the valves from falling down. then they will swap valvesprings and do the stem seals. then they will install the new cams and torque the cam caps down. the whole process so far probably taking a couple hours for a down syndrome apprentice mechanic.
then they will clearance the cams which as far as i can tell is a bit tricky because you cant really adjust anything. youd have to measure the current clearance, then remove the camshafts and install a new shim to achieve the correct clearance. which most likely is going to involve ordering upwards of 24 new shims from toyota.
then it will take 24 hours waiting if you are lucky.
then they will bomb the shims into the head and put it back together in another hour or 2 and youll be done right?

so thats what like 4 hours on the book? something like that. maybe 3, maybe 8. ($300-800)

you should go ask what they quote for a price.

my estimates also assume they leave the timing belt on. you can just tape it to the timing cover and maintain crankshaft timing. but if the belt skips a tooth theyre gonna have to take the crank damper off and re-do the timing which is gonna add like an hour or 2 gauranteed.
You know not all shops are full of bums, down syndrome apprentice mechanics trying to rip you off. To the OP if you wanna have a shop do it just do your research to find the right one, someone who will do the job right the first time at a fair price. There are a lot of shops who out there who just want your money and don't care about quality. There's also nothing better than doing a job yourself even though it may be a learning experience and take a little longer it can be gratifying in the end.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
^^^ I agree. Not really that big of a deal assuming you have some time and patience. As for doing the springs, you can use a nylon rope to hold the valves up but I prefer to use an air line(from an air compressor) with a fitting on the end of it that will thread into the spark plug hole. Once the air line is screwed into the spark plug hole, apply pressure from the compressor and Viola, the valves will stay put. You can do valve seals while your there.
Thus is what my buddy must've been talking about, he said something about pressurizing the cylinders. I'm thinking we can take this on, just probably not until winter in case I have an issue I won't be losing valuable summer time!
 

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Thus is what my buddy must've been talking about, he said something about pressurizing the cylinders. I'm thinking we can take this on, just probably not until winter in case I have an issue I won't be losing valuable summer time!
I discovered it while working at Toyota. It was invaluable when doing valve seals on Camrys. This is not a bad job at all but there are some that should stay away from doing this as they will probably end up with valves in the cylinders.
 

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Sorry for the old thread bump, but I was thinking of getting some GSC S1 cams. I buy cams, valve stem seals, BC spring ?? links to which ones??? and stock retainers ?? what would labor cost be these days for installing everything without pulling head?

Also I’m still on Alphabet soup VPC, GCC, Gforce ECU
 

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When i did my heads, which is hot tanking, decking and porting 4 angle valve job, it cost me $450 , but that's me taking the bare head to the machine shop, and the block was $1000 with shot peen'd the crank and balancing it.
i installed everything, on the head and block. (.40 over with sleeves) . I've done 6 motors with Martin Davidson's machine shop, i trust him...
 
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