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Discussion Starter #1
is this type gas going to hurt our cars? I havent looked into it but it thats all thats available is it bad?
 

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your already putting ethanol in your car! (read the stickers on the pumps at the gas station)

its not too bad as long as it has a lubricant... running fuel like e85 requires some fuel system modifications for our cars... you need to retune the car because it has a different weight and specific gravity then gasoline

but all in all, theoretically you can run on 85% ethanol without problems
 

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Discussion Starter #3
cool thanks. I knew some pumps had it in them.. and we are heading that way quickly so? just checking.
 

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ethanol actually has alot of the same properties of methanol... im going to be trying a ethanol injection system (based off a methanol injection system) in my car to be able to boost more on pump gas

it actually cools cylinder temps alot (we were looking into this option in my SAE course)
 

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There are some guys on a local board that are doing ethanol tunes for thier cars this summer. Some of them are expecting to still hit some good numbers with it, as an alternative to running C16 all the time. I guess they already looked into all the fuel system requirements and target a/f ratios. I will post some of their info if I can still find it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I guess that is kinda what I was asking for. will we need to retune our cars if they up the ethanol % in all pumps?
 

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Yeah if you want to run e85 you would have to run a different tune.

Here is some information from local guys, this is just based on what I have was reading in their posts not facts as far as I know:

[STFU]Hipresr quote-
"Actually the research I have done recommends fuel maps to be enriched by 20-25%"

More from [STFU]Hipresr
"The 15% reg gas in there will help with lubrication and the harsh effect of water in the ethenol(which should have none in the first place), but ethenol in its natural state is way less corrosive than methanol. Most of what i understand is that 6.0 is rich, 7.5 is nice and 9.8 is lean. They say you need nitril orings, alky safe pumps, rail, etc since alky likes to eat aluminum. Any cad plated part/oxidized part would be safe from the effects. That being said, i am not going to run it 24hrs a day, 7 days a week and place 15k a year on my car, so the effects of the alky being in the system would be null and void.
It will take some tuning, but from the help from a mustang guy, thats were it came out to be 20-25% increase in fuel delivery(fuel map) and some timing adjustments. That was a mustang owner that laid out 1085hp with the stuff. E85 has a ron rating of 108."
 

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Here is more information from that same local topic: From TurboMustangs.com

"Turbomustangs.com along with Steve Cole Enterprises Inc (username: Karl Hungus) has completed some preliminary testing with the environmentally friendly, cheaper than 91 Octane, E85 fuel blend.
First off what is E85? E85, is a motor fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline to be used in flex-fuel vehicles. Ethanol is alcohol used in transportation fuels. It is a high-octane, liquid fuel, produced by the fermentation of plant sugars. In
the United States, ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products, although in the future it may be economically produced from other biomass resources.

Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.

Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.

Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.

The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.

At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.

In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.
I also want to point out how impressed I am with this solid roller setup. Sure it is slightly noisier than my tiny hydro cam. But you can’t argue with that sick power curve. At all boost levels the car makes peak power at 6000rpm and holds it solid until 7500rpm, I am sure it would pull up to 8000rpm no problem. Steve has also tried a larger hydraulic cam to get the same results but it just didn’t work. The cam was a comp extreme energy hyd roller: 248 @ .050 on int and exh, 114 lsa. The car also had larger 74mm turbos at the time but the power would peak at 6500rpm and drop like a rock, even with expensive valve springs. With the new small solid roller cam the car even lugs along at 1500rpm no problem and idles fine at 900rpm.

To learn more about E85 and to check for stations in your area please go here:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html

PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DYNO RUNS IN .JPG FORMAT:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/...95/coleruns.jpg

Video:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/...5/stevedyno.wmv"
 

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yawn yawn

lol

i been RUNNING e-85 for the last couple of year. Yes that means day in and day out. Of course I had to swap all the none- alkie parts for alkie parts. Just search for all my posts regarding e85 or e-85. Nothing new and I think I beat everyone to this punch ;)
 

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figgie said:
yawn yawn

lol

i been RUNNING e-85 for the last couple of year. Yes that means day in and day out. Of course I had to swap all the none- alkie parts for alkie parts. Just search for all my posts regarding e85 or e-85. Nothing new and I think I beat everyone to this punch ;)
but did you do it in a supra?
 

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I run it from time to time but i've never run it full e85. I've always mixed it just becausei dont have a wideband on the car to monitor AF's. The car seems to love it and i have used it off and on for the past 6 months or so. Seems to pull the same as when I have 114 in the tank. When I do uise it though i try to keep it no more than 50% ethanol.

Alex
 

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nada! its probably not too good of an idea running it blind but I started with a 30% or so mix and went up from there. I haven't had any problems though..yet :D

Alex
 

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swearitsstock said:
but did you do it in a supra?

no I just visit supra forums because I own a GEO metro.....

Had you searched my posts like I told you, you would have found out that yes I do infact own a supra, owned one since 1994.
 

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Sooco100pf said:
What sort of enrichment modifications are you doing when you run a mix e85?

hmm I assume you are talking to Alx no?

I myself run a standalone. So i adjusted the fuel enrichment.

btw Alx. You are playing with your motor if you are adding 50% e85 and not adjusting fueling. I can tell you that the stock ECU does not have that much control over the closed loop O2 feedback (+15%/ -15%)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
sweet, I need to do some research to find out exactly what I need to do to make mine alky friendly....
 

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463supra said:
sweet, I need to do some research to find out exactly what I need to do to make mine alky friendly....

nothing bad except if trying for major HP then expect to drop a dime and a half on a fuel pump that will push enough e85 to make power. Expect $1000 for a good enough electrical fuel pump. Expect about the same for a belt driven one after all installation and custom brackets are made.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
on stock twins are the 550 injectors and fuel rail enough? if we are needing 2 fuel pumps?
 

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figgie said:
hmm I assume you are talking to Alx no?

I myself run a standalone. So i adjusted the fuel enrichment.

btw Alx. You are playing with your motor if you are adding 50% e85 and not adjusting fueling. I can tell you that the stock ECU does not have that much control over the closed loop O2 feedback (+15%/ -15%)
yeah i know that I stopped running that high of a mix a while ago. Even though I didnt feel anything going wrong, I knew that it would be bound if I kept it up. Just need a wideband or some dyno time before I run more than a few gallons from now on.

Alex
 

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Discussion Starter #20
463supra said:
on stock twins are the 550 injectors and fuel rail enough? if we are needing 2 fuel pumps?
?
 
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