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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #1
Pretty sad people lost their lives and innocent drivers were hurt due to the Zupra drivers negligence. Anyone from the Maryland area have any more news on this crash?

 

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I turn my own wrenches!
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Why do you say Zupra’s negligence? The article says the Honda Accord made a left hand turn, and vehicles were going opposite directions so it sounds like the Honda is negligent for failure to yield.

Now on the other information regarding the Zupra being stolen possibly is another story.
 

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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #3
Why do you say Zupra’s negligence? The article says the Honda Accord made a left hand turn, and vehicles were going opposite directions so it sounds like the Honda is negligent for failure to yield.

Now on the other information regarding the Zupra being stolen possibly is another story.
From what I viewed law enforcement had determined that the Zupra was speeding. Looking at the damage it appears that could be the case.
 
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I turn my own wrenches!
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From what I viewed law enforcement had determined that the Zupra was speeding. Looking at the damage it appears that could be the case.
I have no doubt speed might have been a factor in the seriousness of the traffic crash. But failure to yield would be the primary stage of the traffic crash to have occurred no matter how fast oncoming traffic was approaching. It’s the responsibility of the individual making a lane change or direction change to ascertain traffic is clear.
It’s sad regardless anytime life is lost. Happens every minute in this country regarding traffic fatalities.

On a sidenote, the color of that zupra eh.
 

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Also the driver was set for trial that following Friday for a DUI and gun possession

 

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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I have no doubt speed might have been a factor in the seriousness of the traffic crash. But failure to yield would be the primary stage of the traffic crash to have occurred no matter how fast oncoming traffic was approaching. It’s the responsibility of the individual making a lane change or direction change to ascertain traffic is clear.

Ask me how I know, :sneaky: I might have investigated a few traffic crashes in my time.

It’s sad regardless anytime life is lost. Happens every minute in this country regarding traffic fatalities.

On a sidenote, the color of that zupra eh.
Not necessarily true all the time. If the speed is in of excess of the maximum posted limit, the person turning would have thought they had reasonable amount of time to complete the turn given the distance of the car. Partial fault would be given to the speeding driver.
By looking at the condition of that Zupra and Honda that hit it, the carnage shows that its more than likely the case of excessive speed.
 

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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #10
Assuming the left turn wasn't illegal. But sucks 2 people were killed and another 3 seriously injured.
 

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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #11
Also the driver was set for trial that following Friday for a DUI and gun possession

Wow...didn't see that article.
 

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I turn my own wrenches!
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Not necessarily true all the time. If the speed is in of excess of the maximum posted limit, the person turning would have thought they had reasonable amount of time to complete the turn given the distance of the car. Partial fault would be given to the speeding driver.
By looking at the condition of that Zupra and Honda that hit it, the carnage shows that its more than likely the case of excessive speed.
Yes I agree with speed being a factor in the fault blaming game. But that is completely left up to the insurance companies to determine the percentage of fault on each vehicle regarding the traffic crash.

My point was merely on the fact the primary action of the traffic crash was caused at fault to the Honda. If the Zupra was doing hypothetically 1,000 mph it would have simply drove by the Honda awaiting to turn. However said driver of Honda did not take the appropriate time needed to properly assess the on coming flow of traffic.

It’s a mute point either way, I hope the Honda occupants make a full speedy recover and unfortunately both vehicle owners will be fighting the percentage of fault for many years to come especially since there was fatalities.

Yea it appears that young lady was already on a bad path.
 

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Super Moderator
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The loss of life, and serious injuries, is very sad. Not intending to assign, or imply, blame in the least, only to say this to my Supra brothers and sisters. I supervised municipal traffic engineers for 16 years and I was consistently told that a majority of accidents occurring while turning were left-hand turn events.

I always try to remember this, especially when I am driving in unfamiliar areas. It pays to be even more diligent when driving cars that attract attention like ours do.


Ken.
 

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Master Shit Fixer
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If the speed is in of excess of the maximum posted limit, the person turning would have thought they had reasonable amount of time to complete the turn given the distance of the car.
I have to take exception with this statement. The turning driver can't just take a "still photo" of an oncoming car and compute how long they should have before the oncoming car gets to the intersection. Instead, the turning driver must observe the distance and relative speed of the oncoming car (a "video clip" in their brain) to determine the time until potential impact. It doesn't matter what speed the oncoming car is going...this rule applies at all speeds below, at, and/or above the posted speed limit.

I've heard many times about a stopped car pulling out in front of a vehicle in motion, getting hit in the back, and then saying "you were speeding". The obvious question then being "so you knowingly pulled out in front of a speeding car?" The car that pulled out is still the cause of the accident.

Having said all of that, in both cases, the "speeding" car's driver was overdriving their skills and/or the car's ability. If you're going to drive over the speed limit, you better have a reaction time in the top 10% of all drivers, excellent stopping power (like an MkIV Supra), and be paying 100% attention to what you are doing and all of your surroundings. If you can't commit to that, then the speed limit is for you.
 

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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #15
I have to take exception with this statement. The turning driver can't just take a "still photo" of an oncoming car and compute how long they should have before the oncoming car gets to the intersection. Instead, the turning driver must observe the distance and relative speed of the oncoming car (a "video clip" in their brain) to determine the time until potential impact. It doesn't matter what speed the oncoming car is going...this rule applies at all speeds below, at, and/or above the posted speed limit.

I've heard many times about a stopped car pulling out in front of a vehicle in motion, getting hit in the back, and then saying "you were speeding". The obvious question then being "so you knowingly pulled out in front of a speeding car?" The car that pulled out is still the cause of the accident.

Having said all of that, in both cases, the "speeding" car's driver was overdriving their skills and/or the car's ability. If you're going to drive over the speed limit, you better have a reaction time in the top 10% of all drivers, excellent stopping power (like an MkIV Supra), and be paying 100% attention to what you are doing and all of your surroundings. If you can't commit to that, then the speed limit is for you.
You cut off the first part of my comment which is important. The explanation you gave is aligned with mine minus one's ability to accurately determine closing speed which can be difficult based on a multitude of factors. Left turn/rear end/sudden stop; it all comes down to was the action reasonable given the situation and were their any contributing factors that lead to the accident.

You have a duty of care when operating a motor vehicle. Any reckless behavior resulting in the damage or injury to another persons property or well being makes you liable or at-fault in similar cases like this one. Without details from the accident report, we can see this accident was the result of BOTH the Honda and the Zupra drivers actions(Can we confirm the Zupra had a green light?). Simply because you have the "right of way" doesn't grant you immunity from the laws of the road or your duty of care if an accident is to occur.

The speed limit on this road appears to be 45mph. Looking at loss of life, injuries, the immense damage to both vehicles, and size of the accident scene plus the police saying the contributing factor was speed, it's safe to assume at this stage they are both at fault. But the damage would not have been as great if the Zupra was not speeding which is why in my opinion it was negligence on their part.

Having a car is a privilege. Owning a high performance car carries many burdens. Just be wise and be safe.
 

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JetFire
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This was local to me, the driver didn't exactly have a stellar record as pointed out. Speed was definitely a factor and the car wasn't stolen. They knew the owner and they borrowed the car from what I saw posted. The owner supposedly claimed it was stolen after finding out about the crash.
 
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iSPOOL
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Discussion Starter #17
This was local to me, the driver didn't exactly have a stellar record as pointed out. Speed was definitely a factor and the car wasn't stolen. They knew the owner and they borrowed the car from what I saw posted. The owner supposedly claimed it was stolen after finding out about the crash.
Crazy. Is this a bad intersection?
 

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JetFire
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Crazy. Is this a bad intersection?
It isn't bad per se I've driven there before it's been a while as I live in the next county over. It's easy to speed on Muddy Branch Road itself, a lot of people do it. Getting on to Muddy Branch from the smaller streets or crossing it you have to be careful because people are more than likely going over the speed limit on Muddy Branch. In this case, she was going well over the limit. This happened in Montgomery County, MD which is famous for it's many speed cameras.
 

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Wasnt there social media of her livestreaming on IG right before the accident?
 

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Blue Thunder
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This happened near some of our meet spots. She posted on IG that she was gonna go "KILL IT" as she was drinking. There is a video of the aftermath with her and the passenger's body and the guys in the honda...the entire front end gone. Engine over 100ft away. No brake lines on road at all. Word is she was doing well in excess of 100mph on Muddy Branch. Which has a problem with EXCESSIVE speeding.
 
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