Supra Forums banner
261 - 280 of 298 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #261 ·
Well, I sure hope I got things wired and cleaned then because that's the nightmare scenario if it doesn't start. I cleaned each connector with electrical cleaner spray, then hit them with compressed air and repeated. The TPS is new but worries me as I set it up with a mutlimeter. And the electronics on the left fender are corroded from the battery vapors when it sat 19 years. Thanks for the prime test - I'll do that. Also, the distributor was not exactly where I thought the rotor should be but that's easily adjustable. Yes - thanks for the continuous stream of advice on all fronts here!! Need it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
Interestingly, I found out by accident that my car would start with the AFM not plugged in, but it would not run. I only tried twice, so maybe there was enough fuel for that even without the pump running.

Also, it's easy to get the distributor off by one tooth. Amazingly, the car will run even so. The alignment instructions in the TSRM are good, but it's still easy to miss by a tooth. I double checked with the rotor in place and marks where #1 is on the cap. Obviously, with #1 at TDC, everything should line up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #263 ·
Yeah, I feel like I got it right but with the engine at 0 TDC, the rotor did not look advanced enough. So I moved it, then decided actually back at the original position. But then realized the rotor needs to arrive before TDC, etc. I think the possibility is still there that I'm off a tooth. The usual overthink, and I'll figure it out on start day with my bright yellow painted timing marks.

I don't know if others took issue with the FSM instructions but there are actually TWO intentional grooves/notches to line the hole up with. One much more obvious, but still. I first aligned it with the wrong one just playing with it but then noted the larger notch. Seems like they should point that out to save confusion. They also call the hole a "drilled mark" which is the stuff we used to see and correct from Japanese technical writers. That's clearly a hole.

So this morning I am super glad I took the extra step of resting the engine on jack stands last night, and not trusting my hoist. I avoided a disaster, as this morning I found the chains slack and the engine happily sitting on jack stands. This is something everyone should be aware of. Best practice. Don't leave an engine hanging in a hoist unless there is some positive locking mechanism. I've never seen a locking one, and don't hack this with a piece of lumber under the lifting arm, either. It may seem sturdy when you go to bed but in the night when the full weight comes on it, something may slip under hundreds of pounds of weight. Better to put padded jackstands or wood under an engine and simply rest it there for the night so you know it's stable and doesn't need the hoist at all. The last thing you want to find in the morning is that your fresh ready-to-install engine gently settled onto the floor, then rolled over on its side, breaking sensors, snapping off the dipstick tube, cracking the air fliter box, snapping a blade off the fan, etc. I nearly forgot to do it and it was only the freshly sealed oil pan that made me think "hmm, if that engine settled down on the pan would it mess up the sealant in any way?".
 

·
90T
Joined
·
861 Posts
With the starter engaged the COR relay will operate the fuel pump directly. Once the key is released the flapper pump switch must be closed for the pump to run. That is why it will start but not run with the AFM removed. This system does not "prime" with only the ignition on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #265 ·
So, that's actually good input for me. I was figuring I'd hear a fuel pump prime cycle. So with totally empty lines and a new fuel pump, I will have to run the starter to get fuel up to the engine, eh? I guess that's good - cause there's my 10 seconds of cranking to push oil through the engine. I'm planning to fill the filter and was planning to help the oil system get full by spinning the starter for a while with the injectors off or fuel line pumping into a bucket or something. As that has a degree of risk, this is good news to me. Something about having raw gas around a car that may backfire, or have an unknown electrical short that gets me thinking. The bearings and spinny bits have assembly grease in them, of course but I'd like to see oil pressure.

Anyhow, thanks. That would have had me scratching my head the first time I turned the key in the silent garage "wait, I didn't hear the fuel pump." So for once I want a long crank event and it sounds like I may get one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
You can easily make your own "long crank event." I always crank mine for a bit after an oil change, even with prefilling the filter, to get things lubed up. It can take 20 or 30 seconds of cranking before the oil pressure gauge moves.

Disconnect the coil wire from the distributor and stick it somewhere it can spark safely to the engine. Disconnect the injector (solenoid) resistor so the injectors don't spray. Crank away.

Side note: apparently, the solenoid resistor is GTE only for 89+. Pre-89 GEs (like mine) have it. :unsure:
 

·
90T
Joined
·
861 Posts
To test the fuel system just jumper FP to B+ in the diagnostic box with the ignition on. Definitely do that first because a fuel leak is not good and needs to be found with top priority. Testing with the jumper allows you to hear the fuel trickling in the pipes and for any odd sounds without the racket of the starter turning the engine.

For oil priming just pull the EFI fuse and there will be no fuel to worry about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #268 ·
Ah, nice. Could you guys provide input on a hidden security switch on a thread I'm about to start. I'd imagine these Supras are stolen once in a while and I'd like to do that. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #269 ·
Today, I worked a bit on the Supra during lunch. My son helped me pressure test the radiator with 18psi of air and we couldn't hear any air leaks. To do that, it was pretty simple. Just folded the old hoses back on each other and clamped them with a stout clamp to seal those two holes in the radiator. Then used a rubber air nozzle to pressurize the over flow pipe while I clamped my hand over the irregular hole where the radiator cap goes. If you put the cap in, this won't work, and it's not too tough to hold your hand to contain 18psi. My compressor has a regulator I can dial to various pressures and a guage to confirm that. Then I filled it with NAPA cooling system cleaner in a pretty strong mix (a third of the container which is designed for the whole system) and left it full for 4 hours. Rinsed multiple times.

After work, I got the fuel tank partly ready for re-install. My son and I cleaned it a year ago, but I needed to put new rubber fuel lines and vents on it, reinstall the fuel sender, and put the new fuel pump in it. The fuel sender looks horrible but functions just fine according to the factory test I did this evening. I didn't get time to install the sender and pump, but I did resecure the thick rubber pads on top of the fuel tank with 3M double adhesive foam tape. Whatever glue they used long ago dried.

Then, I blew out the metal fuel lines under the car, as I'm concerned any junk in there will end up in the fuel rail and injectors I just cleaned last month. Yes, it turned out they had some righteous crud. I took a pair of old white socks and taped them over the open ends of the metal lines at the tank end like big filters. It's easier to get air into the engine ends. Then I sprayed brake cleaner in from the engine bay for a few seconds, followed by a short blast of 120 PSI air from my compressor just to spread it through. Repeat and then totally blow it out and start over. The socks were impressively dirty, and smelled like varnish - that 22 year old fuel smell. Plus some small bits that looked like possible rubber from hose interiors breaking down. I probably did this about 10 times for each of the two lines, and then also did the metal vent line a few times by pulling the rubber line off at the charcoal chamber.

Pretty impressive how well it cleaned as I'd taken a small bright light and looked into the engine ends before starting today, and could actually see bad looking reddish brownish crud settled in the bottom of the pipes. Now the ends look completely clean and i suspect the entire pipes are. Took half a can of brake cleaner. I feel like I dodged a bullet doing this as it was kind of a last minute thought as I get ready to install the engine. Few of you are going to deal with a Supra sitting this long. I hope! but it was worth doing.

Two tips. Have a fire extinguisher handy open all doors and windows, and it would have been smart of me to have someone around. You are essentially blasting a highly flammable substance as a concentrated vapor out the fuel lines in a short amount of time. And this is key. Tape the little red straw to your spray can nozzle. I thought of this before starting as I though "what could go wrong here?" Answer: a fire, or having that red straw go into the fuel line and jam in a curve somewhere. That's a question I often stop and ask myself when I'm moving something heavy, or doing something with force, or cleaning parts with gasoline, etc.

Then I installed a new fuel filter. Wow, I pity anyone doing this with a fully assembled Supra. With no tank in the way, I could easily do it. Happily, last summer I fired Kroil up on the bolts and nuts and popped them all loose since I was already under it removing the tank. Which I'd forgotten today, so I was momentarily puzzled that they were barely snug. Snap! Oh yeah, that's right....heh.

Here's the radiator hack:
263980
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #270 ·
Got home from a trip today and planned to install the fuel pump, and then the fuel tank but cannot find the fuel pump screen - little sock like device that prescreens the fuel. I see the receipt for it, and the other items on that order are there, so I must have misplaced it as it's been a year since that batch arrived and were set aside for this day. Instead, I grappled with a couple frozen fasteners where the battery acid fumes corroded the fasteners on the left fender. Drilled one out and got the scraps out. The other fought so hard I distorted the sheetmetal and there's still a bit left. So I put epoxy around it so the welded on captive nut doesn't suddenly snap off and will finish drilling it and then tap it if necessary. Not much else done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #271 · (Edited)
Last night I drilled and tapped that second captive nut. Was glad for the circle of epoxy around it as it was in the process of breaking loose from the sheetmetal of the inner fender (I still have the LF fender liner out) and that made it strong again to use the thread tap and cut new threads in the bolt.

Toyota dealer just called and a new pump screen is waiting. Bummer as they've gone up in price, plus I bought the exact Denso screen for $9 from Rock Auto a year ago and this one is $30. Argh. The price of stupidity. I'll probably find the old one taped to the fuel tank when I go to install it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #272 ·
Well, big day for Supra wrenching! My son came out and gave me a hand, which was a big boost in getting some larger bits installed. The fuel tank is installed with new pump, screen, and the fuel level sender tested out correctly. I hosed the box where the wiper is with contact cleaner, blew air through and called it a day instead of opening it up. The tabs you have to bend back looked brittle and if they snap, it's trash. Hope I don't regret that, but at least I can pull it up through the cargo area to replace it. All rubber hoses replaced, new fuel filter, all hard lines under the floor cleaned with solvent and blown out with high pressure air.

Remarkably, the return line section on the tank was completely blocked. At the last minuted I decided to blow these short sections out as well and was shocked. That was a lucky find as the car would have had huge issues and that's a tough one to diagnose. I pushed wire in and got sticky tarlike fuel residue combined with some deteriorated rubber and possibly rust. Wow - dodged a bullet. After a lot of poking, whanging the hard line with a screwdriver to create high frequency vibrations, it kept coming out and finally I got air pressure through, then solvent and air again until it ran clear.

We got the tank back in with zero issues, the fill spout didn't fight us at all and I oriented all the clamps so it will be easy next time. Then we tackled the diff, and I'm kind of excited we chose to put the Limited Slip diff in we snagged at the U-pull for $32. We opened it up and he meticulously rubbed some rust spots off the ring gear tooth contact faces, then we flushed it out and resealed the finned cover. At the last minute, he caught that we wouldn't be able to fit the axles on unless we lowered the diff again. We had not tightened any mounts yet so it was a matter of lowering the floor jack, fitting the axles and raising it up again:
Automotive tire Gear Rim Automotive wheel system Machine


And beauty shot with the finned cover back on:

Automotive tire Automotive design Rim Gas Motor vehicle


Then the transmission got a nice cleanup with gasoline, a plastic 3M wheel, and some brake cleaner. Here's before:

Tire Automotive tire Road surface Tread Asphalt



And after:

Tire Automotive parking light Wheel Vehicle Automotive tire



So, next will be the clutch install. I cannibalized the new looking clutch slave, and throwout bearing from the other tranny, pulled my shift fork, cleaned it and properly greased everything before putting it back together. Once the clutch is in, tranny goes on the engine and I'll be close to inserting the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
there is a short section of return line called the j-tube. its a short piece that is odd because it bolts to the engine. like it covers up a mechanical fuel pump access hole in the block under the intake manifold (I assume you found this and are following)

anyway the j-pipe has a pinhole restriction in it by design. since your running an oem factory fuel setup (pump, regulator, factory dual voltage relay with resistor) its possible you may indeed want this restriction as it may be important. I know when we install after market fuel regulator and pump we take that restriction out because we are moving so much fuel it backs the system up. I am unsure what an oem regulator with zero resistance in the return path would do. with the attention to detail on this thread, I thought I'd point it out. cant wait to see this car back on the road. ps, you can indeed change the rear diff fluid without any disassembly. done that half a dozen times. now that w58 trans on the other hand.....its kind a pain. I fill that through the shifter from inside the car.
 

·
Registered
1987 Toyota Supra
Joined
·
640 Posts
You got a diff for 32$ ! Lucky!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #275 ·
Yes, we sure did and it's a 285 4.3 ratio 4 pinion correct for the N/A just like the 284 4 pinion 4.3 ratio I'm replacing. 3 years ago we'd had the car for a short period when a Mark 3 appeared at the You Pull. Boom - tranny, diff, head. Haven't seen one since, so I think it was a nice welcome to the Supra world. Thanks for the tip on filling the W58. I just went out and slung it across a couple sawhorses and its draining. Beautiful, clear gear oil and the magnet has just a skim of grey, so someone clearly took good care of this car.

Yeah, I did notice that odd restrictor on the J pipe. I stared at it, thinking "flaw from the factory?" then realized it was clearly built that way with considerable effort from the factory. Now that the lines are fully clear, I'm happy I dodged that particular bullet. Whew.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #276 ·
So, never wanting to miss an opportunity to make a huge mess, my son and I were filling the W58 laying on its side on sawhorses this evening. I thought it would be funny to take a picture and caption it "filling a W58 the easy way" for the forum. Surprise, surprise. The output shaft seal needs a driveshaft in it or your oil will begin flowing out the back of the trans.

My son had a great idea to find a socket the right size, so after we tended to the football size pool of gear oil, we did that. Taped over the back end, then taped it in place as we'll be hanging the trans tail down to insert it into the car with the engine attached. So, it's full, but the pile of kitty litter on the floor didn't make the shot....

With the car's rear end jacked up, I think there's enough room to snake an oil hose down to the diff through the right rear wheel well and over and down to the diff fill plug. Then a ladder next to the car with the funnel-topped hose taped to it and in she goes. I did this once with a Vanagon the same way and it worked great. Long ago I got tired of using those cheap hand pumps to get the fluid UP to a differential or tranny.
 

·
Registered
1987 Toyota Supra
Joined
·
640 Posts
Diff does not take much, I use a quick easy method.
-Warm the 2 quarts of oil in boiling water.
-Cut off a small section of the tapered end of the cap.
-Zip tie on a section of hose about 3 feet long, larger ID the better.
-Shove the hose in the diff, invert the bottle and just squeeze.

Quick and easy, no mess, no special tools required.
Don't squeeze too hard or you will blow the fitting or hose off, the heated fluid helps make it all easier.
Same thing works for trannies or hard to reach fill plugs on front diffs/center diffs ect...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #279 ·
Good idea on warming it - often takes a while to flow in. Will let you know how that worked.

So, the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate are on, and the trans is laying next to it for tomorrow.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive engine gasket Automotive exterior Rim


Not having a clutch alignment tool to fit, I used the old socket trick. Will see how I did putting the tranny on and since I'm doing it out of the car I should have an easier time lining it up. I found a socket that fit it perfectly, and a 3/8" extension fit perfectly in the pilot bearing in the flywheel:
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Rim Gear Engineering
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Discussion Starter · #280 ·
Trans is on, and I almost got the engine in.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Hood Automotive design Automotive exterior


Almost because I did not realize how long the nose of this thing is and had the crane's arm not fully extended. I found out when I was at THIS point. So a dress rehearsal and I'll be back at it when I can:
Tire Automotive tire Hood Wheel Motor vehicle


Argh - that was close....
 
261 - 280 of 298 Posts
Top