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Wheel Whore
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According to more than a few, this is a known BMW issue that affects several different BMW vehicles. As FasTTurbo indicated, this one was shipped dry, but there are BMW repair kits that, allegedly, address this issue. I hope 1A1 and SupraWillis see this thread. They know these cars as well, if not better, than anyone and I would like to hear their expert opinions on this.


Ken.
My expert opinion on anything BMW except for the 80's M1, E36 M3, E46 M3, and the occasional 70's 2002, is to pour gasoline on it and light it on fire.
 

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Super Moderator
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My expert opinion on anything BMW except for the 80's M1, E36 M3, E46 M3, and the occasional 70's 2002, is to pour gasoline on it and light it on fire.
Jeff,

In your opinion, having owned so many BMWs in the past, is the steering rack issue a thing affecting various BMW models or is it MKV-specific? TIA,


Ken.
 

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Wheel Whore
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Jeff,

In your opinion, having owned so many BMWs in the past, is the steering rack issue a thing affecting various BMW models or is it MKV-specific? TIA,


Ken.
Surprisingly in my 30+ BMW's which also includes various Mini Coopers, I have never had a direct issue relating to the steering rack.

The majority of my problems have been either cooling, electrical sensors, window regulators, and chasing SRS electrical issues in the interior. And of course, losing several motors.

-Jeff
 

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This is very disappointing. I was seriously considering picking up one of these. People buy a Toyota for reliability. They better fix these issues immediately or this car will flop.
 

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This would not have been missed, if Toyota had actually did their own R&D. Simply unacceptable.
Maybe not this problem but something. Good R&D doesn't eliminate 100% of problems just minimizes them. All cars have failures and/or failure prone components, even Toyota's. Anybody check the NHTSA recall list recently? Our much beloved MKIV was/is pretty bulletproof (at least powertrain) but not an exception to having failure prone components. Anyone who bought one new (I'm a happy owner since Mar/94) has repaired or replaced lots of stuff on their cars. I have 143K miles on mine now and it had a number of issues while still relatively young, well before 100K miles with some in the 50k range. Such as: Twin turbo VSV's, leaking valve stem seals, suspension bushings, odometer module (cold solder joints), ignition coils, clutch (hard driven), tranny shifter bushing leak, tranny speedometer sensor oil leak, power steering reservoir plugged up, power steering hose leak, power steering rack leak (right side seals), alternator replaced, A/C control panel lights (loose connections), etc. In the early days this forum was very much focused on guys helping each other troubleshooting problems with their cars, assistance modifying their cars and helping each other. It was great!!! We don't see that as much now because the MKIV database has been populated with almost every problem or modification and solutions. Now we have the MKV??? I don't see much in the way of help for a new MKV owner. All the whining and grousing about Toyota partnering with BMW on the MKV is not going to change the decision. It's a done deal. It would be good to see people focus once again on helping to improve the car rather than cheering for every failure. Maybe it's a generational thing?
 

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iSPOOL
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Maybe not this problem but something. Good R&D doesn't eliminate 100% of problems just minimizes them. All cars have failures and/or failure prone components, even Toyota's. Anybody check the NHTSA recall list recently? Our much beloved MKIV was/is pretty bulletproof (at least powertrain) but not an exception to having failure prone components. Anyone who bought one new (I'm a happy owner since Mar/94) has repaired or replaced lots of stuff on their cars. I have 143K miles on mine now and it had a number of issues while still relatively young, well before 100K miles with some in the 50k range. Such as: Twin turbo VSV's, leaking valve stem seals, suspension bushings, odometer module (cold solder joints), ignition coils, clutch (hard driven), tranny shifter bushing leak, tranny speedometer sensor oil leak, power steering reservoir plugged up, power steering hose leak, power steering rack leak (right side seals), alternator replaced, A/C control panel lights (loose connections), etc. In the early days this forum was very much focused on guys helping each other troubleshooting problems with their cars, assistance modifying their cars and helping each other. It was great!!! We don't see that as much now because the MKIV database has been populated with almost every problem or modification and solutions. Now we have the MKV??? I don't see much in the way of help for a new MKV owner. All the whining and grousing about Toyota partnering with BMW on the MKV is not going to change the decision. It's a done deal. It would be good to see people focus once again on helping to improve the car rather than cheering for every failure. Maybe it's a generational thing?
The amount of recalls for BMWs on average is much higher than Toyota's.
The problem, like I've posted before it happened, is that something will fail unrelated to the performance modifications and Toyota will void the owner's warranty. A steering rack that came from the factory ungreased which lead to the part failure is something I find hard to believe would happen on a Toyota production line. This is a failure of quality control which could have lead to death. And for a dealer to wipe their hands of it is disgusting especially since they pumped this car up to be a tuner car that the aftermarket would improve. This is not something to cheer for, no one here is doing that. It's a sad moment of "we told you so" that comes with partnering with another company.
 

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I agree on all points except it’s Toyota who are offering the warranty and also Toyota who are denying the coverage. Wether it’s the dealer or Toyota upper management who mandate the policy and deny the warranty, it’s up to Toyota not BMW. I agree that a improperly prepared rack is not a good quality sign.
 

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iSPOOL
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Correct but the car is being assembled in Austria not Japan is a major concern. In a plant that Toyota hasn't used prior to their BMW partnership.
I hope Toyota Corporate sees his video because that is 100% on the build process of the manafacturer, not the performance upgrades.
 

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Even if the car was being built by Toyota, I doubt it would be built in Japan. Most Toyota's (and Lexus) for the NA market are built in the USA or Canada now. Same countries building GM, Ford and Chrysler products. Having served many years ago as the Quality Manager for a large multinational company, I can tell you that quality depends on strong leadership, commitment and process not the worker on the line (or country of operation). I have no doubt that Austrians can build a quality vehicle. If Toyota wants the Supra to meet with their standard of quality they should make sure the process's and management are in place to deliver. It's their brand and moniker on the car and therefore on the line not BMW (except where the average Joe doesn't look).
 

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iSPOOL
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Car company's top car is usually built in a factory they own or its country of origin. From Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Alfa Romeo, VW, etc. Previous Supras were all built in Japan. Not saying they were perfect but you have more oversight of the build process if your product is being built down the road and not 5,000 miles away. I'm sure when the car went to Japan (which I'm being told is the case prior to being shipped to it's final destination), they did not think to take apart the steering rack to check to see if its lubricated. Would that be on the punch list? Quite expensive to do for every car post-assembly I would imagine.

I too understand quality, service, and reputation being that I work as a manager at a large multinational company in central florida based out of Southern California (Did I give myself away? lol). We sign contracts to outside vendors and they are to adhere to the guidelines & standards of our company or the contract will be voided. If standards weren't met and items were missed resulting at a guest's service interruption then they would be held liable after we deliver guest service recovery.

Yes the ultimate responsibilty is on Toyota but this build process and parts is mostly BMW driven which is what we saw coming. The part that failed is BMW. I'm sure Magna Steyr is competent but the Japanese are known for a higher level of attention to detail I've come to find. Perception is reality and this will be looked at as a partnership failure so BMW will automatically be attached to any blame in the court of public opinion.
 

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Shady, I agree that BMW has a role to play and if there are problems with the car, they will be tarnished along with Toyota. I also agree that it makes no sense for Toyota to disassemble every car or even parts of cars in Japan as part of the QC process. Actually I'm not sure I get the point of shipping to Japan at all other than it adds extra cost. When Toyota first started building cars in NA, they put managers in charge to introduce and support their QC process. If they haven't done that in Austria they should. Just an aside, most of the Japanese Quality systems are based upon the work of William Edwards Demming, an American who is known as the father of Japanese quality. The concept of Kaizen (continuous improvement) is the cornerstone of all Japanese quality programs and was essentially Lexus's early advertising slogan "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection." Toyota made the choice to go this way with the Supra, it's up to them to make sure they install a Kaizen system or the fears will be realized. I'm not sure we have a trend yet. One of the big beefs I have seen mentioned in this thread is the warranty and denial of coverage for non-related parts failures on modified Supra's. This is 100% on Toyota and this is where I say it's their brand on the hood and hatch not BMW's. BTW, I didn't modify my MKIV until the warranty expired (not even BPU) because of fear of warranty issues. In the case of this steering rack, I think it should be covered. However, it seems that denial of warranty on modified cars is fairly common practice in the industry (not just Toyota) even for non-related systems. We don't have to like it or agree but it is a word to the wise.
 

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iSPOOL
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No I agree with you on that. The dealership is scapegoating the modifications which I guess says more about their behavior than the company overall. The problem should have been forwarded through the proper channels since it seems to have happened on others customers vehicles. It could turn into a liability issues in the future since they have been made aware.
 

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I've owned Blackie since new (February 1994), modified her under warranty, installed my first APU set-up at 28k miles and have never experienced a fraction of the issues normore has apparently experienced with his MKIV (Full disclosure: I only have about half the miles normore has on his car, but almost certainly far more APU miles). In fact, the only two things that have gone wrong in the 25-years I've owned her is a bad OEM alternator and a cold solder problem with the OEM gauge cluster that affected the odometer. I can make the same statement with respect to my other two MKIVs, one APU and one BPU, owned 13-years and 5-years, respectively.

I've owned about 30 Toyotas and currently own 8 (including 2 Lexi) and to even engage in a discussion about Toyota reliability and BMW reliability is, to me, ludicrous on its face. Whether its initial quality or long-term durability and reliability, Toyota and Lexus will finish in the top 3, and often-times the top 2, in any survey of those traits you care to shake a stick at. I mention these surveys because normore's experience is anecdotal, as are mine, but the surveys really get to the bottom of these issues over thousands of sales of different cars and trucks made by the same manufacturer and over many model years.

Each day that passes, more and more people realize there's a BMW underneath the skin of the MKV. The more people that come to know this, the more any reliability issues with this car will be ascribed to BMW, IMO. Magna-Steyr was chosen because of its preeminent manufacturing reputation. Regardless of the badge, if this car suffers in these areas like the typical BMW, it is BMW that will take the hit, not Toyota. From the perspective of the greater buying public, this car will certainly be considered an outlier by virtue of its BMW underpinnings. Those who own the car will come to know it's a BMW through and through. Toyota will not escape unscathed, but I think most of the vitriol will be the same as it is now....... How on God's green earth did Toyota make an almost unimaginable series of wrong-headed decisions that resulted in this car (spare me the Toyota couldn't afford to do it on its own gibberish, please.)?

For me, none of this really matters because BMW......full stop. I've posted my feelings regarding this car, so no need to belabor those points all over again. A dry steering rack just can't happen and no posts from fans of the car, apologists for the car or haters of the car can change this unfortunate reality.


Ken.
 

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Ken, my experience with my MKIV comes with quite a few miles on my car but I do not think most of my failures I experienced are atypical. Having been on this forum for 17 years, I have seen numerous reports from other owners citing many of the same issues I have had. Since you joined at almost the same time, I'm sure you recognize most of these failure prone areas as well. OEM and aftermarket dealers are sure selling a lot of suspension bushing kits and valve stem seal kits to people on this forum who have these problems for something that hasn't been a problem. As I said, I've been on this forum for 17 years and so have respect for your opinion and am also quite familiar with your cars. I suspect that with your cars, many of the failure prone items likely were replaced or upgraded during modifications before they could fail. In any head or engine build, the valve stem seals would likely be replaced (common failure) and if you've got the tranny out to change or upgrade the clutch, why not change the shifter seal and engine rear main seal (both of mine were leaking at about 70K miles). I changed both when I rebuilt the engine with forged pistons and rods in 2008. Oh and the front main seal blew out a couple of times as well (this is a well known issue with the mkiv but likely due to high combustion bypass on modified cars). That was a PITA and messy. On the upside, I haven't had any real problems in several years so I guess I got most of them fixed/replaced. BTW, I am in no way trying to imply that BMW reliability is anywhere near in the same league as Toyota/Lexus. My brother who manages a Lexus and a Toyota dealership would not be pleased. Even before he was with Toyota, I was a fan and owner. Since 1977 I have owned a '72 Celica, '83 Supra MKII, '94 Supra, a '98 Lexus LS400, a 2000 Lexus RX, a 2006 Lexus RX and very briefly a Lexus 2010 RX (I got transferred to Houston and declined delivery after putting down $3000 which was graciously returned). No doubt, Toyota and Lexus lead the way in both short term and long term reliability. I just wish they made a few more exciting cars, which would attract me the way the MKIV did. It's taken 20 years and what we got was the Zupr4 which for better or worse is the most exciting recent car carrying a Toyota badge (that's not an LFA supercar). After selling the 2006 Lexus in RX 2010 and upon transfer to Houston, I bought a Porsche Cayenne 'S' (daily driver) because after my very brief experience with the new 2010 RX, I deemed it too boring. I traded the 2011 Cayenne 'S" this year on a new 2019 Cayenne. Gotta give it to Porsche, even their SUV's are not boring to drive. In 2013 I bought my 2011 R8 V10 manual Spyder (great fun) because the LFA was both too expensive and I wasn't on the list anyway. Toyota/Lexus have the capability to build great and exciting cars but it is obvious they do not see this market space as one of great interest (i.e.profits). Don't shoot the messenger;)
 

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Blue Thunder
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I think some are missing the point. BMW's are ENGINEERED for failure. No amount of PDI can fix that. All that plastic in the intake and cooling system is a time bomb that continually explodes somewhere close to warranty expiration. QC at the factory by BMW, Magna or Toyota won't fix bad engineering.

Toyota wants you to buy their cars because you WANT to buy one. BMW wants you to buy their cars because you NEED to buy one. The hell with second owners.

My .02

B
 

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Unfortunately it’s common practice with all European cars. Engineers call it planned obsolescence. They purposely make it feel as closest possible to a time of their choosing. This all seems to have started some Time around the year 2000 and up for the Germans anyway.
 
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