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How insightful!!!

I am not what people would call "a gamer" by any stretch of the imagination, but with that being said, I have owned and played every GT version up to #7, and had always presumed, evidently incorrectly, that my recollections of the Supras overall better performance in GT 1 and 2 on the PS1 were simply nostalgic blur, and that it was just my mind playing tricks on me.

Clearly, I was wrong....how utterly disappointing to read such a clear cut case of performance neutering, in order to appease manufacturers egos
 

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How insightful!!!

I am not what people would call "a gamer" by any stretch of the imagination, but with that being said, I have owned and played every GT version up to #7, and had always presumed, evidently incorrectly, that my recollections of the Supras overall better performance in GT 1 and 2 on the PS1 were simply nostalgic blur, and that it was just my mind playing tricks on me.

Clearly, I was wrong....how utterly disappointing to read such a clear cut case of performance neutering, in order to appease manufacturers egos
I am not a "gamer" either. I only have a Playstation to play that game. When I get bored of the bias with GT the only other games I play are metal gear or uncharted or something like that.

You have GT7? I have not bought it yet, was waiting on getting a PS5 console to get that game. Looks like next year before they start making enough PS5's that the prices will come down from crazy town. What is the Supra turbo weight balance in GT7? Does it still under-steer till it snap over-steers? How does it feel compared to GT6? Can you just go buy a premium version from the get go?
 

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I am not a "gamer" either. I only have a Playstation to play that game. When I get frustrated with GT the only other games I play are metal gear or uncharted or something like that.

You have GT7? I have not bought it yet, was waiting on getting a PS5 console to get that game. Looks like next year before they start making enough PS5's that the prices will come down from crazy town. What is the Supra turbo weight balance in GT7? Does it still under-steer till it snap over-steers? How does it feel compared to GT6? Can you just go buy a premium version from the get go?
Hahaha thats me too...I only have a PS to play GT, or years ago I used to buy the yearly F1 releases but found the dynamics too unrealistic, especially as I only use the d-pad controller, and have never had the luxury of a steering wheel and pedals to help with input resolution.

I dont have a PS5, just a PS4, so maybe I dont have GT7? What was the release that came out with the PS4?
 

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Hahaha thats me too...I only have a PS to play GT, or years ago I used to buy the yearly F1 releases but found the dynamics too unrealistic, especially as I only use the d-pad controller, and have never had the luxury of a steering wheel and pedals to help with input resolution.

I dont have a PS5, just a PS4, so maybe I dont have GT7? What was the release that came out with the PS4?
For the ps4 that release was gt sport.
 

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Ah ok...I guess this highlights how much of a true gamer I am 🤣
 

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How insightful!!!

I am not what people would call "a gamer" by any stretch of the imagination, but with that being said, I have owned and played every GT version up to #7, and had always presumed, evidently incorrectly, that my recollections of the Supras overall better performance in GT 1 and 2 on the PS1 were simply nostalgic blur, and that it was just my mind playing tricks on me.

Clearly, I was wrong....how utterly disappointing to read such a clear cut case of performance neutering, in order to appease manufacturers egos
I've been trying to find info on this, but have yet to find an interview, article, etc. Not so sure if its true or not.

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I've been trying to find info on this, but have yet to find an interview, article, etc. Not so sure if its true or not.

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There you go bud. Now you know its true. Supra TT 53/47 IRL
Font Audio equipment Electronic device Screenshot Multimedia

GTR R32 60/40 IRL
Font Audio equipment Automotive lighting Electronic device Screenshot
 

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If we're talking about supra's being nerfed in a game. I think there's an arcade game that might be guilty of it. Which is Wangan Midnight Maximum tune. The supra is one of the cars in the game that has the highest top speed when fully tuned. which is 351km/h. The other car that shares that top speed is the gtr r35. It's compared to the GTO in the game as one of the hardest to handle cars. The supra got better handling and acceleration in wmmt6. The weight of the car in game is more frontish. The acceleration is meh compared to other car. This is because the boost that the supra has is average in game.

Most races will use the 700-800hp range for races in-game. The main reason why its average compared to other cars in game is because of the weight of the car ingame. Thing is though in wmmt the supra jz is kinda average compared to the best cars in the game which would be anything in the rx series, the skyline gtr series, or an Mitsubishi evo series.

Here's how the game site describes the a80 supra:
Tire Automotive parking light Wheel Car Automotive lighting
 

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I should also add that in wmmt almost every single high hp car stock is nerfed. The GT-R is nerfed to 300hp stock.In fact most supercars in game that have like 400-500 hp are nefred to 300 or below.
 

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Are you able to find the interview where he mentions this? Or is it too far back.

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I did a quick search today and couldnt find it. I remember he didn't address it directly; he was actually talking about the challenges of getting manufacturers onboard and addressing their concerns of releasing a digital version of their new car and it being creamed by some old platform that isnt even in production. It was a single passing comment. He was just catering to their sizeable investment in their platforms and his game and making the lawyers happy. I did find a video that he talked about that a little bit but not the one that i am remembering where he talks how difficult it was to secure the licensing for all those cars and all the hoops he went through to get them in the game. Price of doing business at that level i guess. Someone has to lose out. We just got the short stick this time because the car was a factory ringer.
 

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If we're talking about supra's being nerfed in a game. I think there's an arcade game that might be guilty of it. Which is Wangan Midnight Maximum tune. The supra is one of the cars in the game that has the highest top speed when fully tuned. which is 351km/h. The other car that shares that top speed is the gtr r35. It's compared to the GTO in the game as one of the hardest to handle cars. The supra got better handling and acceleration in wmmt6. The weight of the car in game is more frontish. The acceleration is meh compared to other car. This is because the boost that the supra has is average in game.

Most races will use the 700-800hp range for races in-game. The main reason why its average compared to other cars in game is because of the weight of the car ingame. Thing is though in wmmt the supra jz is kinda average compared to the best cars in the game which would be anything in the rx series, the skyline gtr series, or an Mitsubishi evo series.

Here's how the game site describes the a80 supra:
View attachment 265531
That doesn't surprise me at all. R Factor and I Racing also have a Supra and i think its heavily front biased with snap oversteer as well. Its probably because the same millenials that dont read publications are programming these games with their biases based on their GT experience. We might have lost out completely virtually but I guess the car's value IRL is higher than most of those cars so i guess it evens out somehow in the end.

Does anyone have Forza or R factor or I Racing? Any other sim game with a Supra what is the weight balance in it?
 

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That doesn't surprise me at all. R Factor and I Racing also have a Supra and i think its heavily front biased with snap oversteer as well. Its probably because the same millenials that dont read publications are programming these games with their biases based on their GT experience. We might have lost out completely virtually but I guess the car's value IRL is higher than most of those cars so i guess it evens out somehow in the end.

Does anyone have Forza or R factor or I Racing? Any other sim game with a Supra what is the weight balance in it?
for wmmt the snap oversteer part isn't there in the game. as the physics is made where it is easy to turn cars, slide, and stuff like that. It just differs from that reason. Initial d also has a supra. only thing is initial d every car is nerfed and the upgrades while it may affect the car your speed is limited depending on the track no matter what it is. For forza The weight balance is 53/47.
 

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for wmmt the snap oversteer part isn't there in the game. as the physics is made where it is easy to turn cars, slide, and stuff like that. It just differs from that reason. Initial d also has a supra. only thing is initial d every car is nerfed and the upgrades while it may affect the car your speed is limited depending on the track no matter what it is. For forza The weight balance is 53/47.
Maybe I finally need to consider getting a wheel and pedal setup on xbox and getting the latest Forza. The last time I played it I couldnt drive it because of the controller. If i had a wheel maybe it wouldnt be so bad for me. I never received Forza because of that alone. Or maybe buy a mini fanless PC with nvme ssd and get I-racing or R-factor and seat/wheel/pedal setup. Probably last longer than any console. When i finish my build IRL and start pro racing ill look into that.
 

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I have thought about this in depth of why said millennials repeat stupid like some parrot with turretts that found a key of crack stashed in it's nest. I couldn't figure out how every mainstream mag that tested the car against it's rivals said it was FAR superior to every single rival that I quote, " Supra is so competent on track its boring...it runs circles around the competition...the other cars (Viper RT/10, ZR1, Ferrari 512TR, Porsche turbo, NSX, RX7, 300ZX, 3000GT VR4) fall apart at the limit but the Supra is easy to drive all the way up to 10/10ths...best handling car for any amount of money...The Supra's brakes were the only brakes out of all the test cars that had a firm pedal after a week of thrashing it..." With reviews like that where the Supra wins the comparo every single time and is preferred we get these vapid vomitbots that putrify anyone's ears that will listen how the car is sooooo heavyyyyyy and handles like stink on a stick and _ is superior in every way.

The epiphany came to me a couple of years ago as to why this switch happened. Millennials don't read publications. They watch videos and play video games. And they were mostly born after all these reviews took place. To them the only version of the car they know is in Gran Turismo, the movie which may not be named, and what idiots on the internet say about the car. In the US the cars that predominantly take up the airwaves are drag cars that have their balance crushed and modded to a drag bias for which naturally ruins the car. And then the FB groups took over for them vs SF for the same reasons their visual appetite is so narrow for attention only wild builds with record setting numbers even gets attention in that format. If a modest (balanced) car gets covered in that format, all the comments are from 12 yr olds who can't drive, "bleh, overrated, heavy, pos, slower than___" because their only interaction with the car so far has been the movie franchise that will remain unamed and record drag cars for FB headline attention grabbing posts, and a video game.

Playing on Gran Turismo, I investigated why is the Supra considered heavy and slow. GT3, GT4, GT5, Prologe, GT6, and probably GT7 the Supra weight distribution in the game was intentionally changed for the worse. I know this due to Kazunori Yamauchi (game designer) did a press interview about the game Waaay back around the release of the GT2 after it had massive commercial success. It even had a section in sema where sema show winners were put in the game. Kaz said, "We biased tuned the older cars down so they wouldn't destroy the newer cars in the game that the manufacturers were debuting. If the old cars are better then the kids playing the game will buy the older cars instead of the new cars the manufacturers were coming out with" When I heard this, I didn't realize at the time what I was seeing was the bias he was talking about.

We OG's know the real balance from the factory is 53/47 f/r weight distribution. In all the aforementioned game versions, the Supra has a 60/40 weight balance. The Supra is under-tired from the factory, and that is exacerbated in the game with that ugly weight balance. You can't change tire width in GT. You can lighten the chassis which makes the balance worse, and fix it with ballast. But then I found another problem. The tire friction cof. If I buy a R comp in the game on the Supra, the car will not grip the same as a R comp with another brand of car. I tested this with braking distance. We all know the Supra Turbo had the braking record for 12 years, but someone didn't like that fact in Polyphony Digital. So they changed the braking balance. The car flat will not brake equal to any car in the game on the same tire. I have even turned the brake bias all the way up in the rear to 10 and the rears wont break traction. If I go 100mph and do a panic stop in a GTR it will stop abnormally fast. In the Supra it keeps going, and going and will eventually stop. The only version of the car in the game was the JDM RZ which had OPTIONAL track brakes that all US spec Supra Turbos get so that means the car will have fade and trouble stopping on the N/A brakes. The calipers show that they are turbo but the car stops like a N/A.

If you get any of Kaz's favorite cars that he says in the interview is the SL mercedes and GTR's you can expect over the top handling and traction that is so unrealistic you wonder if he swapped the Mercedes chassis with the supra. The SL is a POS on the track and handles and brakes like garbage. Its all over the place and the body control is non existent. I have driven a SL55 AMG IRL. It is a decent car but is miles from a Supra dynamics wise. In the game though it is miles better than the Supra. Makes hundreds more horse power (ROFL) has brakes, handling, body control, and tractable power even at over 1000HP+ lol.

GTR - forget eveything about this car in the game is fake.The real life GTR has a 60/40 weight balance. In the game? You guessed right, it is 55/45. So the GTR was modified to be better numbers and traction than the real car, and the Supra was modified to be worse. It doesn't end there. In GT6 you put a small turbo on a supra it makes about 5xxhp. Medium makes about 944hp. Large turbo guesses anyone? 1000+? nope. 937hp. You read that right. The medium turbo makes more power than the large turbo lol. We are lucky to even get that much. The power in the Supra went from 1088hp in GT2 to 9xxhp in GT3, GT4 made 8xxhp and GT5 made 744hp. The crazy thing is the GT5 SC300 makes 789hp with the GE engine. So the GTE is less powerful than the GE and less powerful with a large turbo. Heck ALL the Jap sports cars mentioned above have had a premimum version in all the GT series except for the Supra to this day. The new GT7 announced a premimum Supra is going to be in the game, but I bet $$ they didn't fix what you can't see; which is the chassis dynamics. Talk about a sore loser Kaz. It is so painfully obvious to me now why the millenials are saying what they are saying.

Unfortunately his bias was not limited to the Supra. The SC chassis is even worse. The car is even more under-tired than the Supra from the factory and that weight balance was changed from 57/43 to 65/35. Ballast won't fix it. The car is nearly undriveable in the game. FWD cars like the ITR or CTR are not even that bad and have a better balance than that. The SC is one of the worst handling cars in the game. MR2 Turbo, same story, chaser, aristo, basically all the Toyota cars are stink on a stick dynamically in the game except for the ISF. The ISF can and will run circles around any Toyota product in the game including the Supra and the LFA. If there is no manufacturer stroking here you can call me Mickey Mouse🤡🐭.

The actual game is OK other than that, but honestly that is enough to ruin the experience for me completely. I don't buy the game to beat it. I buy it to drive my fav cars on tracks against other cars to relax, veg out, get seat time and keep my skills sharp. Unfortunately that will be relegated to a PC experience that I am afraid isn't any better. It seems all virtual versions of the Supra are modeled after the one in GT. :(

Looks like this drivel will continue for some time until cars like BIGNUMTT and others like him get more mainstream attention and change the narrative back with actual old and new reviews. And call out Kazunori Yamauchi publicly for this discrepancy. Because bottom line, the way he crapped all over Eiji Toyoda's legacy is criminal. Eiji Toyoda was the passionate man that brought Toyota to the behemoth it is today with sheer passion and craftsmanship. Eiji was responsible for Japan competing with the world. After he passed away his replacement Katsuaki Watanabe in 2005 was then replaced after the acceleration scandal with the prius by the original founder's grandson Akio. Akio has not produced a single sporting product since he took the reins in 2009. Now we are going to have Kazunori highlight and prance this crack baby bastard child A90, GR86 and GR Yaris in GT7 further erasing the pride of Japan of Eiji's legacy over Akio's half baked lame slough attempt at a sporty vehicles that none of which are even made by Toyota.

Encourage incompetent leaders mistakes and destroy competent passionate leaders triumphs, where have I heard this stink story before? Time to get earplugs...
There's one thing which I'm still trying to wrap around. People like Keiichi tsuchiya have driven the a90 and actually seems to like it and think that it deserves the Supra badge. In all these videos I haven't seen 0 complaont about it being a bmw.
I watched all4 of the videos and I've seen nothing about them critiquing that the Supra is a bmw. Some videos do mention that it uses bmw parts but never say that it ruins the entire car. The only car I heard keiichi tsuchiya complain about was the 2nd gen nsx.

So this would either mean:
The Japanese fans don't truly know the Supra legacy
The US fans don't truly know the Supra legacy.
Or both misunderstand the legacy.

Since the way people interpret the a90 seems to differ with Japan having a bit more positive reception. I might take a dive into japanese forums and see if I can find anything regarding the a90. Keiichi even says this as well:

Flash photography Jacket Font Sleeve Event


So yeah that's the one thing I'm unsure about when you mention the review parts.
 

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Thing is though. If the Supra was supposed to compete with the gtr. Then what was supposed to compete with the z. Surely not the 86. Probably because the 86 was based on the ae86 which was a specific corolla trim which was underpowered as well. But it was so lightweight is that it made it a good sports car.
 

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There's one thing which I'm still trying to wrap around. People like Keiichi tsuchiya have driven the a90 and actually seems to like it and think that it deserves the Supra badge. In all these videos I haven't seen 0 complaont about it being a bmw.
I watched all4 of the videos and I've seen nothing about them critiquing that the Supra is a bmw. Some videos do mention that it uses bmw parts but never say that it ruins the entire car. The only car I heard keiichi tsuchiya complain about was the 2nd gen nsx.

So this would either mean:
The Japanese fans don't truly know the Supra legacy
The US fans don't truly know the Supra legacy.
Or both misunderstand the legacy.

Since the way people interpret the a90 seems to differ with Japan having a bit more positive reception. I might take a dive into japanese forums and see if I can find anything regarding the a90. Keiichi even says this as well:

So yeah that's the one thing I'm unsure about when you mention the review parts.
The reviews I am talking about specifically are the written publications about the A80 vs the world here. The ones that millennials were not born yet and do not care to read. Then projectile vomit all over us how heavvvvyyyy and crap handling they are. When you correct them they just get mad at you and accuse you of being too literal and using google searches to correct them. If they don't get tired of pontificating the lie then we should not tire of correcting them with facts and articles. At least until they tire of us correcting them and they stop saying it. This is partially why Supra owners are seen as pompous, it's not that; we are just tired of listening to the same bs over and over by people who never driven one. When you don't correct them with facts and articles now, they grow up to sabotage and hurt the community like write articles and do video reviews with inaccurate facts like Matt Farrah with the new Supra review saying the A80 didn't handle that well compared to its competition. I called him out for that video and encouraged him to do a little research and linked the above publications to reference. One chisel doesn't hurt us as a whole but if every reviewer now says that then the damage is almost irreparable. Now look at how the Supra A80 is received as a handling machine. It's not seen as that- but to the OG's that knew it from before the mis-information came along and ruined it's reputation. Remember the Motor Trend article that reviewed an old A80 that had 4 different tires on it and needed maintenance on the brakes and boost leaks? They said it handled and braked like trash. That is the kind of thing that is a seed to what we see now because of how little we see the car in the mainstream.

When people see a good car with a good review of the A80 handlilng, now people write that review off as a fluke as the opposite are the accepted norm. We need to dillute and sway the balance the other way with what BignumTT (Now SupraTrackAttack) is doing and get others like him to start swaying the norm back to the correct view of the car. I actually share BugnumTT's vids to the millenials that say that drivel. I particularly like sharing the one at Spa Francorchamps against a GT2RS or the Lamborghini Trofeo Race car. I have not had one say anything after, proof is in the video. I have not in twenty years being on SF seen someone in Road Racing section post how they went to the track and the car handled bad, in fact quite the opposite they couldn't believe how well the car did and how well it easily kept up to newer platforms. There are definetly modern track specials today that will easily beat the car, but it will hang with most performance cars out there. I'm preaching to the choir now so I'll shut up. Man I have been on SF for 20 years plus- jeez I feel old. Yikes.


The Celica, the Soarer, The GT4, The MR2, if Toyota didn't quit on life would be competitors to the Z. I believe you missed my point. I am commenting specifically about how the mainstream throws shade at the A80 being a straight line car over the A90 being a corner carver. That is highly inaccurate when you put into perspective that the Supra A80 was competing with the world best cars at the time and the Supra A90 competes with only a Cayman, BMW and maybe a Infiniti.
 

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The reviews I am talking about specifically are the written publications about the A80 vs the world here. The ones that millennials were not born yet and do not care to read. Then projectile vomit all over us how heavvvvyyyy and crap handling they are. When you correct them they just get mad at you and accuse you of being too literal and using google searches to correct them. If they don't get tired of pontificating the lie then we should not tire of correcting them with facts and articles. At least until they tire of us correcting them and they stop saying it. This is partially why Supra owners are seen as pompous, it's not that; we are just tired of listening to the same bs over and over by people who never driven one. When you don't correct them with facts and articles now, they grow up to sabotage and hurt the community like write articles and do video reviews with inaccurate facts like Matt Farrah with the new Supra review saying the A80 didn't handle that well compared to its competition. I called him out for that video and encouraged him to do a little research and linked the above publications to reference. One chisel doesn't hurt us as a whole but if every reviewer now says that then the damage is almost irreparable. Now look at how the Supra A80 is received as a handling machine. It's not seen as that- but to the OG's that knew it from before the mis-information came along and ruined it's reputation. Remember the Motor Trend article that reviewed an old A80 that had 4 different tires on it and needed maintenance on the brakes and boost leaks? They said it handled and braked like trash. That is the kind of thing that is a seed to what we see now because of how little we see the car in the mainstream.

When people see a good car with a good review of the A80 handlilng, now people write that review off as a fluke as the opposite are the accepted norm. We need to dillute and sway the balance the other way with what BignumTT (Now SupraTrackAttack) is doing and get others like him to start swaying the norm back to the correct view of the car. I actually share BugnumTT's vids to the millenials that say that drivel. I particularly like sharing the one at Spa Francorchamps against a GT2RS or the Lamborghini Trofeo Race car. I have not had one say anything after, proof is in the video. I have not in twenty years being on SF seen someone in Road Racing section post how they went to the track and the car handled bad, in fact quite the opposite they couldn't believe how well the car did and how well it easily kept up to newer platforms. There are definetly modern track specials today that will easily beat the car, but it will hang with most performance cars out there. I'm preaching to the choir now so I'll shut up. Man I have been on SF for 20 years plus- jeez I feel old. Yikes.


The Celica, the Soarer, The GT4, The MR2, if Toyota didn't quit on life would be competitors to the Z. I believe you missed my point. I am commenting specifically about how the mainstream throws shade at the A80 being a straight line car over the A90 being a corner carver. That is highly inaccurate when you put into perspective that the Supra A80 was competing with the world best cars at the time and the Supra A90 competes with only a Cayman, BMW and maybe a Infiniti.
For that time attack channel one could sayit doesn't count cause the car is modified and say that its obvious that modified cars can perform better than stock. It does compete with the cayman but I think the cayman s not something like the gts. If it was the gts then it would probably be designed differently or something. The best cars now are cars like koneiseggs, bugatti's cars way beyond the gtr. But I think that would be aiming way too high for a goal. Lets add that toyota was In f1 so they could use some R&D with motorsport to save costs. And also the economic advantage where japan could make cars and overbuild them and still end up being cheap. Since the 2008 recession that has kinda changed things for cars. Especially the tighter regulations. heck i believe that's the reason why the 400z isnt even selling in Europe for that exact reason.
 

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(snip)
So this would either mean:
The Japanese fans don't truly know the Supra legacy
The US fans don't truly know the Supra legacy.
Or both misunderstand the legacy.
(snip)
Or, folks like Keiichi Tsuchiya and Max Orido have other reasons to be diplomatic about the A90.
Other Japanese tuning icons, ones that do not have a thriving social media/TV production persona to maintain, are more candid about it:

 

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For that time attack channel one could sayit doesn't count cause the car is modified and say that its obvious that modified cars can perform better than stock. It does compete with the cayman but I think the cayman s not something like the gts. If it was the gts then it would probably be designed differently or something. The best cars now are cars like koneiseggs, bugatti's cars way beyond the gtr. But I think that would be aiming way too high for a goal. Lets add that toyota was In f1 so they could use some R&D with motorsport to save costs. And also the economic advantage where japan could make cars and overbuild them and still end up being cheap. Since the 2008 recession that has kinda changed things for cars. Especially the tighter regulations. heck i believe that's the reason why the 400z isnt even selling in Europe for that exact reason.
Of course it counts. Not all cars can be modified to that level easily. That is a bolt on car. The Supra tuner scene should be looked at as non-factory car development. Keeping the car current and relevant. You don't see SRT Neon's challenging a GT2RS. Toyota has their Lemans team they could pull from I believe the team is called TTE. BTW I think the 400z isn't a new car. I think it is a generation after an already aging 370Z chassis. Nissan is in limp mode after Carlos Ghosn debacle and trying to stay afloat. They have nothing electric coming, their current lineup is all old and creaky, even the GTR is so long in the tooth it gained too much $$ and did not increase the performance to offset it. I read somewhere they only sell like 300 a year.

Or, folks like Keiichi Tsuchiya and Max Orido have other reasons to be diplomatic about the A90.
Other Japanese tuning icons, ones that do not have a thriving social media/TV production persona to maintain, are more candid about it:

Exactly thank you for posting that Wreckless. I enjoyed watching the whole thing. He sums up the new Supra at the end better than I did. He realizes the same thing I said. It only had one job. Beat an old aging GTR. It was 13 years old at the time and needed replacing. Should not have been hard. If they tried at all.

To be fair the car isn't a bad car. It is just not a SUPRA. It could be anything else than that name means "above and beyond" so what is it above and beyond? A Infinity Q60? the Q would give it a run.

Veggim Did you see the GR Hypercar GR010 that got the canned? Toyota has all the means and ability to compete with everything out there Including the Bug and Egg but simply chooses not to. They force the engineers to turn down the cars and not compete on purpose. We are watching the beginning of the end of the greatest car company in the world. Toyota forgot it's roots and forgot how it got to where it is. Toyota used to be 20 years ahead of the market build and design wise. Now they are 20 years behind. It's sad to watch honestly. I feel like I could spend a day with them and straighten them out but life doesn't work that way.

Toyota still has some amazing resources like the Carbon fiber loom and the LFA plant, they have so much ability and are stuck making junk priuses. The prius isn't even a good hybrid IMO. You can't drive it normally like a car. You have to adapt your driving to its junk settings that make you a nuisance on the road for everyone else to get advertised economy out of it. Lexus making silent driving appliances should have been the first luxury electric car company has no electric cars. I mean when Toyota Motor Corp aims and misses they miss the whole planet...

They could still come back if they get Akio Toyoda out of there and replace him with someone who at minimum is a car person. They are a bean counting concept car company now. Here look at what we COULD build! SIKE!
 
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