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function > form
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got my Apexi Power Intake this morning. After having a Blitz SUS filter on my 90 I decided to try something different for my 89. Although I can't say whether the Apexi or Blitz felt like it made more power (I don't believe an exposed-element air filter makes gobs of power on any car), I tend to like the amplification of the turbo spool that the Apexi makes more than the Blitz. The Blitz seemed to have more of a "whooshing" vacuum, while the Apexi filter sounds more crisp and whistling during lead-foot operations. Given the two, I'd take the Apexi Power Intake over the Blitz SUS. Why? Not only do I prefer the sound, but it's about half the price.

In my next comparison thread I will discuss how the HKS 3" downpipe sucks balls, and how much better the BIC re-routed DDP will perform. Not to mention scraping on driveways with STOCK suspension using the HKS unit. GRR! Till next time...
 

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Madd Tyte JDM yo ®
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are you serious... the Blitz SUS is the worst filter on the face of the planet, second only to the HKS SMF... in fact, i think the shitty foam SMF element filters BETTER than the blitz... i have several friends w/ the SUS filters and we've all agreed that they are only usefull for filtering out rocks and small children. the APex power intake is by FAR The most effective filter out there. it filters better than the rest and flows more air than the K&N, plus there is no chance of over-oiling and getting that shit on your AFM element.

oh, HKS dp is the lose, BIC is 2nd best, and the DEfcon DP is the best... ive personally seen a 100rwhp jump from a completely stock MK3 with an open Defcon DP. ive only ever seen an 80rwhp jump from an open BIC unit
 

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starprise entership
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Ive got the APEXi and i like it. However in retrospect i should have just bought a adapter off ebay and some filter for it. Probably the same amount of power for half the cost
 

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function > form
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
flubyux2 said:
oh, HKS dp is the lose, BIC is 2nd best, and the DEfcon DP is the best... ive personally seen a 100rwhp jump from a completely stock MK3 with an open Defcon DP. ive only ever seen an 80rwhp jump from an open BIC unit
Uh... 100rwhp difference from just a DP? There has to be WAY more things involved. When you say "completely stock" I figure stock turbo, intercooler, piping, cat-back, and stock boost level.

Additionally, the Defcon DP doesn't have a divorced path for wg flow, while the BIC DDP obviously does. I realize you're talking about a plain open elbow BIC DP but I did mention that I'm getting the DDP, with which they've seen 29rwhp over a plain open DP.
 

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Madd Tyte JDM yo ®
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are you calling me a liar? cuz basically you are. first off, do yourself a favor and dont come here second guessing people who have alot more experience w/ MK3's and supras in general than yourself. also, realize that i have nothing to gain from making false claims, so theres no reason for me to lie about anything like this.

my claims from first hand experience. my friend Marc Buehler who is the CEO of defcon motorsports employed my friend Russ Maskey to make a new turboback exhaust for an 88 turbo/5sp car. this car had about 160k miles on it and was completely stock. i had seen the car on several occasions before the exhaust job. it had come in for a new clutch and flywheel, which russ also did. they fabbed up a new Turboback DP, one piece w/o a flex sectoin. they ordered a Thermal Research catback system. They took this bone stock car to Dyno Dave's in Michigan and put the car on the dyno completely stock for a baseline pull. the car put down a peak HP figure of 198.x RWHP. they removed the stock turboback and installed their prototype DP and nothing else. the car laid down 297RWHP on this pass. the next pass, they installed the Thermal Research catback w/ test pipe and it laid down 274rwhp. I saw the dynosheets w/ my own 2 eyes when marc handed them to me back in 2000. i couldnt beleive what i was seeing, but the proof was in the pudding.

I dont give a shit which downpipes have cute little external dump tubes and what doesnt... ive seen ~100rwhp jump from a completely stock 88t going to JUST a defcon DP and no exhaust. stock IC and pipes and everything else had remaind the same. If you dont like what youre hearing from me, PM DefconAdmin or APengineering on here, my friends Russ and Don, who worked for Marc, still post on here.

thanks, have a nice day.
 

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Pronounced Tek-DAY-us
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I bought the Apexi because the Mk4 guys did extensive testing against its competitors and it was the best at flow and filtering. It's also small enough to fit under my headlight for a cold air intake.
 

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function > form
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
flubyux2 said:
the car laid down 297RWHP on this pass. the next pass, they installed the Thermal Research catback w/ test pipe and it laid down 274rwhp
Calm down, I merely stated that it was hard to believe if there weren't more factors involved. How did they make less power with a test pipe and cat-back in addition to the DP?
 

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Ludicrous speed! GO!
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90beater said:
Calm down, I merely stated that it was hard to believe if there weren't more factors involved. How did they make less power with a test pipe and cat-back in addition to the DP?
Because the cat-back is a restriction to the system, even though it maybe 3" or more and mandrel bent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
koulee said:
Because the cat-back is a restriction to the system, even though it maybe 3" or more and mandrel bent.
Wait, I read it wrong. The first pull was with DP straight to atmosphere, I see now.
 

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Ludicrous speed! GO!
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90beater said:
Wait, I read it wrong. The first pull was with DP straight to atmosphere, I see now.
You still read it wrong:

1st pull was with stock dp, stock cat and stock cat back: 198 RWHP
2nd pull was the dp only, no cat and no cat back: 297 RWHP
3rd pull was the dp, test pipe and the cat back: 274 RWHP
 
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ur still bullshittin about the 100rwhp jump on a stock motor, they made 230bhp stock, also the stock intercooler hoses go right around 300whp, he had to havce alot of othr mods on that car to make 300hp, a 3.8lb MAP and a down pipes on a 3 liter 6 cylinder engine is never going ot make that kind of power, especially w/ 160,000 miles on it
 

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Ludicrous speed! GO!
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Mk3 supras make 230-232 hp at the CRANK stock, thats why the baseline pull came in at 198 RWHP.
 

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Madd Tyte JDM yo ®
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im not bullshitting. i held the dyno sheets in my own 2 hands. i SAW the numbers and the curves. i specifically asked marc what else they did to the car because i didnt beleive what he had done to it. he said NOTHING, just the DP. then i asked him what the 278rwhp pull was from, and he said 'thats the one w/ the Thermal catback" and i said "damn, i cant beleive the Thermal sucks up that much HP over an Open DP".

if you want, ill get Russ in here. he can vouch for the numbers because HE made the first defcon DP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It really doesn't matter. My main gripe here is how you replied to me as if I were 16 years old and this is my first car. Though turbocharger theory tells me otherwise, I understand many things are different in practice. Being skeptical doesn't mean I'm second guessing anyone. Afterall, you didn't believe him at first, so how can you expect everyone else to just accept it as truth? No matter who knows what, everyone learns new things over time. It doesn't matter how much experience I've had with the MKIII, an engine is an engine, so please don't condescend to me.
 

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flubyux2 said:
ive seen ~100rwhp jump from a completely stock 88t going to JUST a defcon DP and no exhaust. stock IC and pipes and everything else had remaind the same.
C'mon man, you know the boost went up a good few psi due to less exhaust back pressure. I dont doubt this did happen, but not at the same boost level, so its not comparing apples with apples.
 
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ok, back this up, even if u got 50hp just from reducing backpressure u would still have to add around 6lbs of boost which would put u over fuel cut with only 9-10psi MAP
 

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Madd Tyte JDM yo ®
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im not saying that the boost didnt go up. theres no way to keep boost at 7psi when upgrading the DP and exhaust. thats the POINT of upgrading it. youre making the engine more efficient therefore making better use out of what the engine has in it stock. reducing restrictions is where free horsepower comes from. The fact that the DP reduced the restriction so much that the WG port couldnt bypass enough exhaust gas energy to control the turbine speed and keep it at a stock 7psi doesnt mean that the horsepower gains are dis-credible.

it IS possible to make more power for the same boost level than a current setup. i know TONS of people w/ MK3's on otherwise stockish setups who are pushing anywhere from 10-14psi without any alteration to the WG actuator or pressure signal line. that means NO external boost controllers at all. ive seen cars make anywhere from 240rwhp-296rwhp on STOCK boost control, stock WG, uncut/modified lines.

just because ONE person puts down 240rwhp on stock turbo w/ no boost controller doesnt mean that the next person is limited to that same HP on the same boost level. I know for a fact that i was putting down what numbers i claimed. I ran the defcon DP w/o an exhaust for 8 months. i raced and BEAT LS1 F-bodies on a regular basis. all i had was a K&N drop in, open defcon DP, lexus afm and 550's untuned with NO BOOST CONTROL.

there is no way possible to upgrade the intake and exhaust and keep the boost level at 7psi. the turbo pushes 10psi when the engine can actually BREATHE properly. thats the beauty of having a turbocharged car. the free hp from new-found boost increases is all part of the game. the car REMAINED stock, as in physically there were no new parts or alterations. the main premise that upgraded intake and exhaust increases the VE of the engine is responsible for the increased boost level... hence free horsepower. i guarantee you that a completely stock car, down to the turbo elbow, DP, cats, cat back and intake will NOT make 300rwhp by simply upping the boost to 10psi w/ a boost controller.

if anyone has a gripe, it should be me. you called bullshit on me, i presented my case and cited my sources. i have people that can vouch for this car as well. being skeptical in spite of being presented a first-hand testimony of the evidence is no longer being skeptical...its being obtuse at that point. You would be right to have a gripe if i said "yo i heard about this downpipe that gives you 100rwhp gain" and had no other information to support my claim. however, i had tons of information and first-hand experience regarding this product and the test car... so your gripe is unfounded. and an engine is not necessarily an engine... unless you are making a broad generalization in the sense that its an otto-cycle internal combustion power generating machine. the 7MGTE is not the same as a 4G63BT or a 13B-REW or an RB26DETT... the 7MGTE has a ridiculous amount of inherent restrictions making it anemic at best. improving on these restrictions, like an open Defcon DP, is how you can gain horsepower without having to touch anythign else. its not my fault that the 7mgte responds better to an aftermarket dp than just about any other turbocharged engine on the face of the planet ;)
 

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The point you're missing flubyux2 is that the DP was not entirely responsible for the power increase. It doesnt matter that there was no external method of boost control, the fact is, the boost went up, and this accounts for most of the gain you mentioned. If you did keep the boost at the factory level, the gain from the increased exhaust flow alone would've probably been around 30rwhp - this is normal.

flubyux2 said:
ive seen ~100rwhp jump from a completely stock 88t going to JUST a defcon DP and no exhaust. stock IC and pipes and everything else had remaind the same.
"everything else had NOT remained the same" - thats extra 8ish psi sounds like about 70 rwhp to me.

So basically what you said ^^^ WAS incorrect (whether an intentional lie or not), you knew it, and you got irate when 90beater questioned it. There's no need for that man.
 
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