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Forget dtc, I would love to see a zf8, that trans has the gearing to .make lag obsolete, and will take what ever you throw at it. The trans controller will work with this trans too. I really want to do one for my sc300 build, but have no time to so it and no desire to pay someone to learn on my dime.
I agree with you on the ZF8 transmission. While probably not as fast as a DCT, it may be a better candidate for a swap: they're in so many cars, probably better at low speeds (less jerkiness), cheaper with more available parts, and can handle plenty of torque.

When the current (F90) generation M5 switched to the ZF8 from a DCT, it signaled there was no real major benefits to the DCT.
 

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Ken,

Wade Hill is putting the DCT in his 1/2 mile car. Apparently, you can have the transmissions built now to hold higher HP and TQ. I have to say this is interesting as I've been in several E92s with the DCT and they are brutal - imagine shifting through the gears with no boost lag and holding boost throughout the shifts? I love my Getrag, but this is intriguing.

Steve
Steve,

I have to say this has got me thinking as well. Does anybody know of a DCT that is docile around town, brutal on full boost and holds all the torque? Do you know anything more about Wade's set-up, Steve?


Ken.
 
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ZF8? Unfamiliar with this tranny.


Ken.
 

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ZF8? Unfamiliar with this tranny.


Ken.
Sorry for the bit of confusion.


The "ZF8" is just the common/colloquial name for ZF's 8-speed automatic transmission that a slew of manufacturers use.

While wikipedia may not be wholly accurate, here's a list of the cars utilizing variations of the "ZF8".
ZF 8HP transmission - Wikipedia
 

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If anyone is on the fence, drive a car with a DCT sometime. I had the fortune of driving an Audi R8 V10 and a couple Ferrari 458's back in 2014. I'm a pretty die hard manual guy myself, but a DCT is hard to beat.

@KenHenderson Driving those exotics around Vegas, we were out in the hills, as well as the freeways, and some typical side streets. I don't recall any of those cars being less than perfectly civil to drive, in any condition or input. I imagine that is a product of good tuning.
 

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Sorry for the bit of confusion.


The "ZF8" is just the common/colloquial name for ZF's 8-speed automatic transmission that a slew of manufacturers use.

While wikipedia may not be wholly accurate, here's a list of the cars utilizing variations of the "ZF8".
ZF 8HP transmission - Wikipedia
You probably don't want a ZF8. The last two gears are OD gears anyway. Why? The reason is you cannot build the ZF8 to handle as much hp as the ZF6. The ZF8 have been having trans issues lately if you read the forums of the hellcats they can and will smoke their trans with stock power and just upgraded tires. There is a variant of the ZF6 that Ford uses called the 6R80 and that trans has aftermarket billet shafts, stage 2 exedy clutches, billet planetary gears, and billet 1st gear. Bret Lasala's Snot Rocket Mustang has run [email protected] with this very setup. He sells kits for that trans and it will take past 1700WHP all day long fully built. A ZF8 is never doing that anytime soon. PHR is now selling complete 6R80 kits now. You can put down all the power you want reliably and still get your daily drivable 6 speed auto with OD in 6th gear. One great thing about the 6R80 is it has full locking torque converter in all six gears. so there is no slip going on; Great for gas mileage. It shifts in less than 200 milliseconds in some versions stock and can be tuned for faster shifts. Some versions as well have a sequential shift mode that can shift multiple gears at a time and remember when you called a shift and deliver it when you are in the right rpm range.


There are a few companies building the ZF8 for the hellcat but they cannot handle 1700WHP. Built ZF8 handle more like 1000WHP. https://www.hellraisertransmission.com/
 

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What are the stock un-built 6R80 torque limits?

I've driven BMWs DCT and it's fast and didn't have any troubles with it being jerky or anything. Only time you notice it's a DCT is on the shifts because it's so fast. haha.
 

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For the guys not looking for big power I am surprised the AA80E isn’t of more interest. Combine that transmission with a 3.6 (probably too short) a 3.4, 3.3 or 3.1 ratio and that would upset some people.

That said, a built A340E shouldn’t be sniffed at.
 

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What are the stock un-built 6R80 torque limits?

I've driven BMWs DCT and it's fast and didn't have any troubles with it being jerky or anything. Only time you notice it's a DCT is on the shifts because it's so fast. haha.

Unopened 6R80s can handle quite a bit of abuse around the 700 mark.

Upgrade the intermediate shaft, torque converter, and clutch packs and it can handle quite a bit more reliably. PHR and MSRacing cite the following:

MSR prices includes a core transmission, new electrical lead frame, refresh/piston seals, bushing if needed, seals/gaskets, filter and case coating
Stock Transmission - includes new clutches, supports 400-500whp - $1600
Stage 1 Build - Exedy Clutch Upgrade, Billet Intermediate Shaft, supporst 800-900whp - $3100
Stage 2 Build - Exedy Clutches, Billet Intermediate Shaft, Billet Forward Planetary, supports 1300whp - $4500
Stage 3 Build - Exedy Clutches, billet intermediate shaft, billet forward planetary, billet first gear one way clutch, Supoorts 1500+WHP - $5900
 

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I looked at PHR's website. The IS300 2J to 6R kit is almost $8,000 if you do a junkyard 6R and the PHR kit. I mentioned that platform because the A80 isn't listed, but I suspect it would be similarly priced to the IS300. You add MSR prices of new clutches and you're looking at close to $10,000. So, anywhere from $8,000 with a $500 trans to 10k.

Seems the Getrag DCT might be a better route, especially if you're going "small" single as you can save the cash for the swap. Well, for a fun street car at any rate. I think if you're doing a 1,000 tq drag build, then the built 6R might be better route. I don't know what upgraded clutches for a Getrag DCT are holding torque wise. Looking at torque rating when it comes to drivetrain is what's important.

I'm dumb this way, but I'd just do the Getrag DCT to keep it more A80ish. Getrag V160s and Getrag DCTs. Keep it in the family in a sense, naw-i-mean? Plus, it's really fast.

Since the 10R80 was mentioned, I don't know if 10 gears would be more beneficial for a single turbo application (larger A/Rs specifically), as I suspect that the turbo might like more load/longer load to build boost between shifts. Of course, it may not even matter since it's alrady spinning at the "top end" anyways. Any thoughts on my suspicion?
 
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Having driven an M3 with a DCT in auto and manu, in traffic and on open hiway, I felt no jerkiness at all. It's a Getrag remember? Just quick, and precise 80ms shifts.

I'm just upset i didn't get a ride in Tahj's RX7. He hold the motor a few weeks ago, so I'll have to wait until the next motor goes in to see what his DCT setup feels like. Looks smooth in vedios and on the road.
 

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For the guys not looking for big power I am surprised the AA80E isn’t of more interest. Combine that transmission with a 3.6 (probably too short) a 3.4, 3.3 or 3.1 ratio and that would upset some people.

That said, a built A340E shouldn’t be sniffed at.
The A340E doesn't have enough ratios for me even though baltic Supra has gotten some highly respectable times out of it. My opinion is biased though, because I am not a drag racing aficionado. I like standing mile events, open road racing like Silver State and Big Bend and lots of road racing. The 3 forward ratios with one OD gear are not enough for all situations even if it can handle a lot of power for a short distance IMO.

I looked at PHR's website. The IS300 2J to 6R kit is almost $8,000 if you do a junkyard 6R and the PHR kit. I mentioned that platform because the A80 isn't listed, but I suspect it would be similarly priced to the IS300. You add MSR prices of new clutches and you're looking at close to $10,000. So, anywhere from $8,000 with a $500 trans to 10k.

Seems the Getrag DCT might be a better route, especially if you're going "small" single as you can save the cash for the swap. Well, for a fun street car at any rate. I think if you're doing a 1,000 tq drag build, then the built 6R might be better route. I don't know what upgraded clutches for a Getrag DCT are holding torque wise. Looking at torque rating when it comes to drivetrain is what's important.

I'm dumb this way, but I'd just do the Getrag DCT to keep it more A80ish. Getrag V160s and Getrag DCTs. Keep it in the family in a sense, naw-i-mean? Plus, it's really fast.

Since the 10R80 was mentioned, I don't know if 10 gears would be more beneficial for a single turbo application (larger A/Rs specifically), as I suspect that the turbo might like more load/longer load to build boost between shifts. Of course, it may not even matter since it's alrady spinning at the "top end" anyways. Any thoughts on my suspicion?
Don't forget you will probably need a built locking torque converter too with that much power in the 6R80 build. I got quotes anywhere from $1000-7600. The complete price and the sheer weight of this trans kept me from going with it; Fully optioned out it's as it is as much as a 6XD sequential with a 1800ft/lb torque capacity from the word go. I think the total for my 6R80 build would have been $17k with everything.

The Dodson clutches to handle 1000WHP in the F80 DCT are $4730 FYI. It's not exactly inexpensive either to have a built setup.

My choice ended up being an air shifted 6 speed Samsonas H - Pattern with a 1030ft/lb rating for around $9k all in; no upgrading necessary. With some custom rubber mounts and a little bit of MLV on the floor I can have quiet as stock 80ms shifts with paddles or row my gears when I want at the same time. Easy to work on, parts are on the shelf, good customer service, extremely robust (D1 cars have no failures) I am in process of fitting this to my car now. Will post a separate thread and video when I do hopefully early next year when it is finished in the car.
Be something similar to this M3:
 
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The following was my assessment of transmission swap options a couple of years ago when I went 6R80. My pros, cons, and application are likely different than yours but you may find some comparisons of options relevant.

I believe some of the "$9k all-in" and similar claims for a sequential swap from new parts are inaccurate. There are many additional costs to consider such as the clutch, pedals and hydraulics (MC, SC) when swapping form an auto, cooling, lubrication system, breather system, bellhousing, gear indicator, strain gauge, and driveshaft which need to be added. E.g. I quoted out a full kit with HGT, and although the box is very well priced, the reality of putting together an entire plug and play kit with the functionality I wanted it was over $13k, I don't think this included a driveshaft either.

On to my thought process when selecting a trans, keep in mind this was ~2019 when there were less options, and the 6R80 swap had only just been announced by PHR.

Goals
User-friendly in operation, fast shifting (limited boost drop between shifts), bulletproof, serviceable, not all-out race (NVH), cost value

Applications
OEM TT Auto road car which sees road course, autocross, and drag (multi-purpose track weekend warrior that does a bit of everything not a record-breaker in one category).

Options considered

V160

  • Omit: parts scarcity and cost
A340:
  • Omit: weak O/D, limited tuning options, limited gears, limited serviceability once built due to my location, and I would only trust ATFspeed to touch it.

Sequential (HGT)
  • Serious contender.

Cons:
  1. Cost @ $13k before clutch and pedals (factory auto car), or driveshaft
  2. Dog engagement in general on a street + track car can require frequent dog ring replacement due to lazy shift behaviour (user error) necessitating frequent rebuilds (annual or biannual depending on number of track events and street mileage.
  3. User-friendliness in operation: inexperience users can shift too softly, wearing dog rings
  4. there are other considerations when going sequential such as lubrication system and pump, external cooling, and a breather system for my intended applications.
T56
  • Serious contender
Cons:
  1. shift speed unless faceplated (see HGT dog engagement general cons)
  2. cost to build trans that would meet goals and application ($20k for box alone with sequential setup)
  3. cost of clutch and pedals also need to be added

6R80
serious contender and what I ultimately installed.

pros (where it excels compared to other serious contenders):
  1. Easily serviceable (any trans shop can rebuild or DIY, the box is very simple)
  2. Cheap box ($450)
  3. Cheap clutches ($550)
  4. long service life
  5. Fast shifts
  6. Easy to operate (it's an auto trans with tap-shifting)
  7. Lockup converters capable of handling 1300+ hp only cost $1600
  8. Multiple tuning options - Motec M130, M150, US shift quick 6, HTG
cons:
  1. Cost, but compared to sequential or T56 options it is very good value.
    1. cost was 7200$ for PHR kit + $450 for the box from a local yard + $600 for the cooler kit + 1500$ to build the box with Exedy clutches, billet intermediate shaft, and built valve body
    2. Net = ~$9800 all-in
  2. Can't clutch- kick (yet, clutch-by-wire is a possible feature)

DCT

Omit: weak clutch packs (at the time), limited tuning options, launch capabilities limited (at the time) being unable to spool a turbo off the line, etc.

My conclusion was that for the value all-in starting with a factory auto car the 6R80 provided the best of all worlds for my specific application. The major cost savings were the fact that the torque converter and clutch packs in the 6R80 were ~$2k all together, and of those two items the clutch packs were the only concern for needing a rebuild within the lifespan of the vehicle at my usage levels was the clutch packs (if even that) at $550 compared to a clutch with similar tq capacity for a manual or sequential gearbox which would need more frequent replacement. Additionally, cost of the pedals, MC, slave, etc. are not present when going 6R80.

The 6R80 can be tuned with the US shift quick 6 with 4 calibrations loaded which are switchable through the GUI of the TCU itself in the car - no laptop required. The shifter also allows for different shift logic depending on shifter position - e.g. "D" vs. "M" manual position.
I have a simulated sequential mode where the torque converter is locked 100% of the time when in gear above idle. The clutch only slips or disengages at low RPM to prevent the car from stalling. the clutch is only allowed to partially slip for upshifts making them incredibly quick and firm. Knock the gear selector over to "D" and it's like a factory auto. the other three calibrations are incrementally more firm and "sporty" calibrations where the car holds a gear longer, and shifts faster and harder. Tq converter lockup strategy is easily tuned, and boost can be found extremely quickly without shifting in any gear by letting the converter do its thing. It is very versatile.

Don't get me wrong, I would still love a sequential HGT supra, I didn't end up going that route this time, I'll save that for another (iteration of this) build.
 

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The following was my assessment of transmission swap options a couple of years ago when I went 6R80. My pros, cons, and application are likely different than yours but you may find some comparisons of options relevant.

I believe some of the "$9k all-in" and similar claims for a sequential swap from new parts are inaccurate. There are many additional costs to consider such as the clutch, pedals and hydraulics (MC, SC) when swapping form an auto, cooling, lubrication system, breather system, bellhousing, gear indicator, strain gauge, and driveshaft which need to be added. E.g. I quoted out a full kit with HGT, and although the box is very well priced, the reality of putting together an entire plug and play kit with the functionality I wanted it was over $13k, I don't think this included a driveshaft either.

On to my thought process when selecting a trans, keep in mind this was ~2019 when there were less options, and the 6R80 swap had only just been announced by PHR.

Goals
User-friendly in operation, fast shifting (limited boost drop between shifts), bulletproof, serviceable, not all-out race (NVH), cost value

Applications
OEM TT Auto road car which sees road course, autocross, and drag (multi-purpose track weekend warrior that does a bit of everything not a record-breaker in one category).

Options considered

V160

  • Omit: parts scarcity and cost
A340:
  • Omit: weak O/D, limited tuning options, limited gears, limited serviceability once built due to my location, and I would only trust ATFspeed to touch it.

Sequential (HGT)
  • Serious contender.

Cons:
  1. Cost @ $13k before clutch and pedals (factory auto car), or driveshaft
  2. Dog engagement in general on a street + track car can require frequent dog ring replacement due to lazy shift behaviour (user error) necessitating frequent rebuilds (annual or biannual depending on number of track events and street mileage.
  3. User-friendliness in operation: inexperience users can shift too softly, wearing dog rings
  4. there are other considerations when going sequential such as lubrication system and pump, external cooling, and a breather system for my intended applications.
T56
  • Serious contender
Cons:
  1. shift speed unless faceplated (see HGT dog engagement general cons)
  2. cost to build trans that would meet goals and application ($20k for box alone with sequential setup)
  3. cost of clutch and pedals also need to be added

6R80
serious contender and what I ultimately installed.

pros (where it excels compared to other serious contenders):
  1. Easily serviceable (any trans shop can rebuild or DIY, the box is very simple)
  2. Cheap box ($450)
  3. Cheap clutches ($550)
  4. long service life
  5. Fast shifts
  6. Easy to operate (it's an auto trans with tap-shifting)
  7. Lockup converters capable of handling 1300+ hp only cost $1600
  8. Multiple tuning options - Motec M130, M150, US shift quick 6, HTG
cons:
  1. Cost, but compared to sequential or T56 options it is very good value.
    1. cost was 7200$ for PHR kit + $450 for the box from a local yard + $600 for the cooler kit + 1500$ to build the box with Exedy clutches, billet intermediate shaft, and built valve body
    2. Net = ~$9800 all-in
  2. Can't clutch- kick (yet, clutch-by-wire is a possible feature)

DCT

Omit: weak clutch packs (at the time), limited tuning options, launch capabilities limited (at the time) being unable to spool a turbo off the line, etc.

My conclusion was that for the value all-in starting with a factory auto car the 6R80 provided the best of all worlds for my specific application. The major cost savings were the fact that the torque converter and clutch packs in the 6R80 were ~$2k all together, and of those two items the clutch packs were the only concern for needing a rebuild within the lifespan of the vehicle at my usage levels was the clutch packs (if even that) at $550 compared to a clutch with similar tq capacity for a manual or sequential gearbox which would need more frequent replacement. Additionally, cost of the pedals, MC, slave, etc. are not present when going 6R80.

The 6R80 can be tuned with the US shift quick 6 with 4 calibrations loaded which are switchable through the GUI of the TCU itself in the car - no laptop required. The shifter also allows for different shift logic depending on shifter position - e.g. "D" vs. "M" manual position.
I have a simulated sequential mode where the torque converter is locked 100% of the time when in gear above idle. The clutch only slips or disengages at low RPM to prevent the car from stalling. the clutch is only allowed to partially slip for upshifts making them incredibly quick and firm. Knock the gear selector over to "D" and it's like a factory auto. the other three calibrations are incrementally more firm and "sporty" calibrations where the car holds a gear longer, and shifts faster and harder. Tq converter lockup strategy is easily tuned, and boost can be found extremely quickly without shifting in any gear by letting the converter do its thing. It is very versatile.

Don't get me wrong, I would still love a sequential HGT supra, I didn't end up going that route this time, I'll save that for another (iteration of this) build.
I agree with most everything you said but a few things..

I never said a Samsonas sequential was $9k all in. I said a Samsonas H pattern was $9k all in. The two vids posted are of the sequential box not the H pattern box. They make two different transmissions. The Sequential was quoted to me around $14k.

The H pattern is much cheaper than the seq but has the same gears and torque rating as the sequential.

The 6R80 is the best auto in the world. No question. For me to put 1000+ ft/lbs through it would have cost me $17k when I priced it out early this year. That includes labor to build and install it, but does not include axles, prop shafts or differential. And its super heavy. Compared to the stock auto in my car, the Samsonas reduced the weight by 68+ lbs. The 6R80 is over a 70 lbs heavier than my auto. For a road racing car that is front heavy to start with, that sealed the deal for me along with the cost.

My $0.04
 
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I agree with most everything you said but a few things..

I never said a Samsonas sequential was $9k all in. I said a Samsonas H pattern was $9k all in. The two vids posted are of the sequential box not the H pattern box. They make two different transmissions. The Sequential was quoted to me around $14k.

The H pattern is much cheaper than the seq but has the same gears and torque rating as the sequential.

The 6R80 is the best auto in the world. No question. For me to put 1000+ ft/lbs through it would have cost me $17k when I priced it out early this year. That includes labor to build and install it, but does not include axles, prop shafts or differential. And its super heavy. Compared to the stock auto in my car, the Samsonas reduced the weight by 68+ lbs. The 6R80 is over a 70 lbs heavier than my auto. For a road racing car that is front heavy to start with, that sealed the deal for me along with the cost.

My $0.04
Nice, I didn't realize that the H-pattern was so much more cost-effective compared to the sequential box for the same tq rating.

That's unfortunate re: the cost barrier to getting a 6R80 near you to handle that power.

Where did you find an airshifter setup that works withthe H-pattern? that sounds like an awesome setup and I wouldn't mind having the details in my back pocket so to speak.
 

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Nice, I didn't realize that the H-pattern was so much more cost-effective compared to the sequential box for the same tq rating.

That's unfortunate re: the cost barrier to getting a 6R80 near you to handle that power.

Where did you find an airshifter setup that works withthe H-pattern? that sounds like an awesome setup and I wouldn't mind having the details in my back pocket so to speak.
Yes and the price, torque rating, robust quality, ease of working on and shift quality makes them something of an anomaly and outlier compared to all other options that some are good like the 6R80, DCT and 6XD and some are clearly subpar like CD009 and other used transmissions. V160 set a high bar to get over and I believe the Samsonas H pattern got over it for price that makes it irresistible.

Here are a few of the kits I have researched, I have not decided which I will be going with until the dogbox is in the car, and I weigh each option out.

Shiftec- https://shiftec.com/paddle-shift-actuation/

MMEMotorsport- H-Paddle Shifter Kit

Mega Line- MEGA-Line RACING ELECTRONIC | Paddle Shift | AGS | E-Schaltwalze | Pitstop Equipment - Home

BOSCH e-shift- new servo based system used in LeMans this year

MasterShift- Kit made for T-56Mag

KMP Kit- https://www.kmpdrivetrain.com/paddleshift/universal-paddleshift-kit/


Here is a 6 speed H Pattern Sequential shifter- H-Pattern shifters – S1 Sequential
I believe Ikeya.jp makes one of these as well but it only works on the first four gears.

For some reason the Sequential setup does not do anything for me. I like to row gears. I love the rifle bolt action too. Paddle option when racing would be best of both worlds of auto shifting trans. To have both in the same car would be otherworldly. I can't wait.

The other benefit is the longevity. I have seen built autos with old or burnt fluid shifting irregularly and if the solenoids fail, valve body cracks or some computer component fails the box has trouble shifting. I had this problem with the auto in the car now. This box is the second one after replacing a built A340E that was built 3 times by a reputable shop and utterly failed leaving me stranded in another state. I don't trust them over time. I think this is why the manual cars go for so much more money along with the experience and hassle of switching it over. They stay working and you are the shift quality as long as the clutch is good, and you can shift this box without a clutch after first gear....
 
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Yes and the price, robust quality, ease of working on and shift quality makes them something of an anomaly and outlier compared to all other options that some are good like the 6R80 and 6XD and some are clearly subpar like CD009 and other used transmissions. V160 set a high bar to get over and I believe the Samsonas H pattern got over it for price that makes it irresistible.

Here are a few of the kits I have researched, I have not decided which I will be going with until the dogbox is in the car, and I weigh each option out.

Shiftec- https://shiftec.com/paddle-shift-actuation/

MMEMotorsport- H-Paddle Shifter Kit

Mega Line- MEGA-Line RACING ELECTRONIC | Paddle Shift | AGS | E-Schaltwalze | Pitstop Equipment - Home

BOSCH e-shift- new servo based system used in LeMans this year

MasterShift- Kit made for T-56Mag

KMP Kit- https://www.kmpdrivetrain.com/paddleshift/universal-paddleshift-kit/


Here is a 6 speed H Pattern Sequential shifter- H-Pattern shifters – S1 Sequential
I believe Ikeya.jp makes one of these as well but it only works on the first four gears.

For some reason the Sequential setup does not do anything for me. I like to row gears. I love the rifle bolt action too. Paddle option when racing would be best of both worlds of auto shifting trans. To have both in the same car would be otherworldly. I can't wait.
You'll notice the CD009, R154, etc. were not in my list of considerations... ;)

I didn't include samsonas in my considerations due to the gear whine, that's why I was looking at HGT. I take the car on long road trips ~400 miles one-way each summer and wanted a quiet sequential if I went that route. Hours of highway driving with gear whine can be tiring.

Yeah, PHR was working on paddle shifters for the 6R80 as well as a gear indicator - that reminds me I was going to email them for an ETA on those features.

I hear you on the user experience rowing gears. Really important to sit down and think what matters most to you and your application, and if rowing gears and the user experience is high on the list, that samsonas box looks top tier.
 

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You'll notice the CD009, R154, etc. were not in my list of considerations... ;)

I didn't include samsonas in my considerations due to the gear whine, that's why I was looking at HGT. I take the car on long road trips ~400 miles one-way each summer and wanted a quiet sequential if I went that route. Hours of highway driving with gear whine can be tiring.

Yeah, PHR was working on paddle shifters for the 6R80 as well as a gear indicator - that reminds me I was going to email them for an ETA on those features.

I hear you on the user experience rowing gears. Really important to sit down and think what matters most to you and your application, and if rowing gears and the user experience is high on the list, that samsonas box looks top tier.
The aforementioned gear noise that everyone talks about with a sequential dogbox really isn't as bad as one might think. In most applications of a sequential; it is a race car application where the whole driveline is mounted with hard metal mounts. The Getrag is a very noisy trans and would probably be louder than the Samsonas if it had the same hard engine trans and diff mounts. Samsonas mounted with a full rubber engine trans and diff mounts it would be nearly imperceptible. A single layer of MLV on the floor would have a STC noise insulation rating over 31; the subtle increase in gear chatter would not get through it at all. Even with a multiplate unsprung clutch the getrag is very loud with the rubber mounts. I believe my setup will be quieter than stock.

The HGT is a great option for someone that isn't going to make a lot of power. I could hit it's torque limit of 738ft/lbs on the stock longblock. Not that I would, but I could. That is the only deal breaker for me. I do plan on making some serious power in the near future. I am sure it can handle more than rated for considering the V160 is rated for 361 ft/lbs and is holding 1400hp in some cars, but over time is where I think we will start to see that they break down in the supporting parts, bearings, mounts, syncromesh(v160,v161) outer/inner case and other supporting parts. It would be nice to start with something designed for that power level to start with. Not that the Samsonas can't break as I am sure anything can break with the right conditions.
 
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