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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,
I've blown and removed my stockers, and I've decided to go single. My current setup is straight bpu (profec B, tanabe dp, 3" catback, BCC, stock IC, stock maf), and I'm torn between what to do with my single options.

I'm pretty much set on going with a 63mm precision turbo (I'll be doing fmic, aem, and meth next around late spring or summer), but I'm torn between going with the BL kit or this one custom kit that uses a cast manifold. I've read a bunch of posts about the pros and cons of cast and ss manifolds, but I haven't come across many people who've driven and/or worked with both. I'd really like to hear your opinions, especially people who've dealt with both.

The BL kit with the PT63 .68 a/r will come to $3750 (PT63, ss header, HKS SS wastegate, and all the piping and accessories). The custom kit that I'm looking at will come to $2999(PT63, tubular cast mani, HKS GT wastegate, and all of the piping and accessories).

I don't have insanely high horsepower needs that's why I chose the 63. I would like something fairly quick spooling, yet with some fun top end. The 63 seems to be the perfect fit. So the determining factor really come down to the manifold. My goal is to have a very fun and drivable streetcar that can dip into the 10's on good days with a good driver.

I'd really appreciate some opinions.
Thanks,
Tony
 

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I would recommend getting the tubular header. Although i have never had experience with a cast manifold, people seem to agree that they can only support a limited amount of power. So what happens when you get used to the 63 and want something bigger... it could happen. Then you would have to change your whole setup. Plus I think the tubular maniflds make a little more power.

For the extra $700 I would just go with BL. BTW, does that $2999 price incluse EVERYTHING, even DP and MP?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The name of the place with the cast manifold kit it induction motorsports. They have a site www.Inductionmotorsports.com

One thing that I find interesting is that one of the guys from induction motorsports told me that the 63 surges from 3000-4000, and that the 67 acts like a smaller turbo, spooling at a lower rpm. Anyone else heard of this or know why this would be?
tony
 

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I have had both. The cast manifold with a DE kit, and the tublar manifold with my BL kit.

You want to make sure that the wastegate port on the cast manifold is matched correctly with the size of wastegate you will be running. A lot of people (including myself) have/had boost control problems with the cast manifold in its stock form.

Other than that. If you are 100% sure that you will not get bitten to upgrade to a larger turbo (i.e. 67mm or bigger) than the cast should be fine. I was 100% sure, and now I'm on my 3rd turbo upgrade.

Edit: I cannot beleive the incredible number of idoitic spelling errors there were in this reply, pre-edit.
 

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those are big numbers but it just seems that the cast is really restricting him, iirc that was on 27lbs..at 27lbs the t71 gtq should have 710 or better with the supporting mods. a 74, on a tubular i would guess would be more in the 750+ range. i could be wrong, just seems low for that boost, and i would guess that its because of the header.

i agree with bad4urheart: if you are POSITVE youre not gonna want a 66/67mm or bigger turbo later on, then go with the cast, if youre gonna get the power bug and want over 700 wheel, i suggest the tubular header. good luck

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I spoke with Jeff at Induction motorsports. He took a lot of time to explain to me specs on their kit. Thier cast manifold is built and ported to correctly fit the HKS GT wastegate. He also explained how the 67 will spool quicker maily because it uses a smaller turbo housing than a 63. It definately sounds like a a quality setup, and I'm sure we will be hearing much more from Induction over the next year.
The big thing that Jeff stressed about the cast manifold is its durability and better functionality for street use. He explained that an ss header would be ideal for a race or very high hp application, but won't be as street friendly in regards to durability and the amount of heat that it gives off. Has anyone had problems with headers melting anything?

Bad4urheart,
How do you feel performance-wise about both kits. What turbo were you running on the DE kit? What advantages/disadvantages would you say about both kits? Any preference in certain applications?
Right now I'm feeling pretty good about the IM kit. My hp goals are 500pump and low 600's race.
any other opinions on this?
 

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honestly...you could do low 600's with a t61 and have monster spool, its like ideal for a road course...
 

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Not for that size turbo...

http://www.sound-performance.com/parts/turbos.htm

SP74GTQ ($1199) One of our most popular turbos, we have recorded 905 RWHP with this turbo without NOS and Matt Miller ran a 9.96 with this turbo making him the first 6 Spd NO NOS Supra in the 9s!!

IMO if you can afford it go with the SS header period, Induction Motorsports are telling you what you want to hear to sell their products just like many other shops, but if you look at the # of APU guys on this forum using a header for their upgraded Single/twins you'll see that not many has cracked them and if they were they were high mileage and easy to repair or get repaired.





CRM33184 said:
 

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if you want to know someone that has cracked the SS manifold ask Andi. I am on the cast manifold right now and I had to have it extensively ported, but it holds boost flawlessly (knock on wood), I am using a deltagate 40mm wastegate in conjunction with it. Like most have said if you don't plan on more than 700 hp or so, stick with the cast (durable, inexpensive), but if you want over 700 or so, just spend the bucks and get the ss manifold (prefferably 321ss and not 304). If you go with the cast and you don't like, it you can always sell it for almost the same price you paid.

Good luck with your decision
Jarad
 

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Did he ever crack the Header he got from SP I know about the HKS one that cracked on him? And yes I agree on getting the 321 over the 304


94WasagoodYR said:
if you want to know someone that has cracked the SS manifold ask Andi. I am on the cast manifold right now and I had to have it extensively ported, but it holds boost flawlessly (knock on wood), I am using a deltagate 40mm wastegate in conjunction with it. Like most have said if you don't plan on more than 700 hp or so, stick with the cast (durable, inexpensive), but if you want over 700 or so, just spend the bucks and get the ss manifold (prefferably 321ss and not 304). If you go with the cast and you don't like, it you can always sell it for almost the same price you paid.

Good luck with your decision
Jarad
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Obviously Jeff would like me to go with his kit, but I don't necessarily feel that he was trying to tell me what I wanted to hear. He actually didn't bring up any performance benefits of a cast manifold. He was very honest with the differences between them. This brings up another question. Has anyone experienced any performance benefits of the a cast manifold? DE's site claims that it spools quicker, and that the boost builds more gradually. What do you guys think about this?

MadMKIV, who do you work for?

LYTLDiablo,
You say T61, huh? You guys think the spool of the 67 will be that much different? I've seen claims that the 67 will create 20psi by 3750rpms.
 

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MADMKIV,
Do you drive TT or single turbo car, I see 3000 + posts but I dont see what you drive ?.

If I was to do it all over again I would have spent the extra $500.00 + and gone with the tublar hedder. But $500.00 + can also buy some good parts when you going single like used vpc ?, new cam gears ?, nice 4inch intake ?, upgrated fuel system parts.

who the fuck knows, how much money do you have to spend ??????????????? thats the question .

chris
 

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A properly sized tubular header will always work better than the cast option. Now, the actual difference is hard to quantify. The length of each runner can have a huge effect on how each exhaust pulse makes it to the turbo. Maximum Boost is a great book that goes over some of this stuff.

Also, just a thought on the claim of better spool and more gradual boost. To me this seems like this is a contradiction. If boost comes on more gradually than it is spooling slower.

Hope that helps,
Daniel
 

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Ok, ok, maybe 500rwhp!!!
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I went through this same exact problem as you!

I decided to wait off on the initial purchase for a few months, and saved enough to budget in the tubular manifold.

Remember that lag is overrated, and having TOO much power TOO soon can hamper overall performance; i.e., you're roasting the tires!


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Money isn't as big of a factor for me as is having a solid single setup that will perform well. So it seems if pricing wasn't a factor, most would go with a tubular kit?

Does anyone know if your engine has to be lifted to install the BL header?
 

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Seems like the tubular is the way to go. I will also be doing a single setup soon. Just got my HKS 3.5" (special order) TI carbon fiber exhaust. I will be also doing the RM downpipe and other BPU things. I am learning quite abit from this thread. I too was considering the T63 (for 1/4 mile and quick spooling). But maybe that is not the best choice.
 

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The BL manifold doesn't require the engine to be lifted at all. The install is actually fairly easy. Everything fit properly and there weren't really any surprises. The only thing I didn't like is that they give you 2 bolts and 2 studs to bolt the turbo down to the manifold instead of 4 bolts. They do this because the bolts used in two of the holes would be too long to go in the other 2 without hitting the manifold. I just bought 2 shorter hardened steel bolts from a local store to fix that problem. I'm pretty close to you so if you needed any help on weekends I would be happy to pitch in. I'm no expert by any means but I got it done on my car...
 
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