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Greetings to all! Making purchase of 1987 Mark lll and need advice

3.7K views 11 replies 5 participants last post by  BonestockNA  
#1 ·
Hello to all. I was fortunate to own an 86.5 and 88 Mark lll many years ago and have the fever to own one again. I have the opportunity to buy an 87, garage kept, no rust, non-turbo, automatic, one owner which hasn't been driven in 6-7 years. The interior and paint are in good shape. Sadly, there are no service records. 43K on odometer. I want very much to "rescue" the car and preserve it.

The seller (who has limited knowledge of Mark 3's) claims that when he took possession of it there was no prior examination of the mechanicals before he successfully started it, drove it for a few minutes, and then heard a loud noise, with the temp gauge immediately heading north. He claims he stopped driving it immediately after that event. The car is presently not drivable until this problem is properly diagnosed and repaired. The seller feels it is a hose which popped but has yet to have a mechanic look at it. Hopefully it's not a head gasket. He claims the dipstick is clean and no smoke exited the rear, reservoir cap is clean, no sign of antifreeze in oil.
The car obviously will need new tires, timing belt, water pump, all new belts/hoses, fluids flushed, brakes gone through. A/C is not testable and if the car has been sitting up for years the system probably is in need of rehab. As there is no way to know if the head gasket was ever replaced, would you feel obligated to do so? Any other concerns? I will have to have the majority of the repairs done by a knowledgeable mechanic as I am not one myself.

The car is being sold "as is" and for a "premium" considering its current non-running condition (especially non-turbo and auto). Considering all of the unknowns, would a budget of 5-6K allotted for repairs be able to put this car safely and dependably on the road again (assuming engine and tranny don't need rebuild)? I am willing to spend a reasonable amount on this beauty but don't want to fall into the trap of throwing endless dollars at it. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
#2 ·
If there is no problem with the bottom end internals of the engine I think a $5k re-conditioning budget to put it back on the road is more than enough given the car's reported condition. If this car had body issues and had missing or broken interior parts and showing heavy wear I would probably pass myself but I'm more of a mechanical repair guy than a body and paint guy.

If the head gasket is blown and you have to get a shop to repair it, a large portion of that $5k will get burned up in the head gasket repair. It would be a great opportunity though to replace the head bolts with ARP studs, replace engine & manifold gaskets and accessible oil seals, check for burned valves, replace valve stem seals, replace all fluids, V belts and coolant hoses, water pump , thermostat, timing belt, timing belt idler and tune up parts like distributor, rotor spark plugs, ignition wires and coil. Since this is a non turbo car you can live with a composite gasket and minimal machine shop work to check the head flatness.

After fixing the engine, you will probably need to invest in a good set of tires if the car sat for a long time in one spot and you would need to get the brakes and steering checked out.
 
#4 ·
As described, frankly the car should be treated as an excellent condition rolling shell project, not as a 43k mile original car that just needs some hypothetical trip to an easy/moderate fix to be 100% once again.

IMHO, once you're dealing with significant mechanical problems the low mileage odometer doesn't mean jack, except perhaps again for having excellent paint + interior etc.

As described, I would expect a rod knocked & blown headgasket engine that needed a full teardown and rebuild, which if you're a layman dropping a car off at a shop, is going to wildly exceed your $5-6k budget.
Most 7M's with blown headgaskets don't milkshake the oil very much. They usually spin a rod bearing before the oil can get that contaminated.

Sight unseen and assuming the car is complete, never wrecked, has not a speck of rust on it (by my desert kid standards, not the midwest 'NO RUST' which just means the rust hasn't yet eaten holes in the sheetmetal) and assuming it's 100% unmodified and complete with every interior piece, all trim pieces, etc in excellent condition, and overall the cosmetics are in line with a 43k mile example - I'd pay $7-8k tops, and that's only if it was truly 10/10 cosmetic condition because of the value to have a MKIII that clean cosmetically as a starting point for a full project build. If it's closer to an 8.5/10 because as a long time garage princess owned by a layman, it had boxes stacked on top of it and the paint got dinged up by people not giving a crap about grandpas old car (or grandpa not giving a crap either) then the price moves downward accordingly, more like $6ish.

Needing tires, every imaginable maintenance part from the timing belt back, the A/C serviced and converted to R134A, the brakes bled 3-4 times to get all the old brake fluid out and potentially rebuild all four calipers plus new pads and rotors, new shocks, every fluid, etc.. costs add up fast.

We're also past the frenetic spike in low mile MKIII values, at least for an NA auto. If all the restoration work were done and the car was truly 99-100% across the board, seller is looking at $15-17k tops. Collectors prefer later year cars (91-92) Turbo cars, and 5MT cars, and desirable colors to go along with that low mileage. The only possible plus this car can have is color, and being an '87 it's not going to be a '92 Teal car or a '92 Garnet Pearl or a 91-92 white package, or a 91-92 silver or grey or black with shadow grey leather.

A couple more things need to happen in order to make this any more accurate:
1) Pictures tell the whole story. Get all the pics you can
2) Triage/assess the actual failure. Change the engine oil, get a battery on it, check the compression, check all the fluids, get some fresh fuel in there and attempt to start it.
 
#7 ·
As described, frankly the car should be treated as an excellent condition rolling shell project, not as a 43k mile original car that just needs some hypothetical trip to an easy/moderate fix to be 100% once again.

IMHO, once you're dealing with significant mechanical problems the low mileage odometer doesn't mean jack, except perhaps again for having excellent paint + interior etc.

As described, I would expect a rod knocked & blown headgasket engine that needed a full teardown and rebuild, which if you're a layman dropping a car off at a shop, is going to wildly exceed your $5-6k budget.
Most 7M's with blown headgaskets don't milkshake the oil very much. They usually spin a rod bearing before the oil can get that contaminated.

Sight unseen and assuming the car is complete, never wrecked, has not a speck of rust on it (by my desert kid standards, not the midwest 'NO RUST' which just means the rust hasn't yet eaten holes in the sheetmetal) and assuming it's 100% unmodified and complete with every interior piece, all trim pieces, etc in excellent condition, and overall the cosmetics are in line with a 43k mile example - I'd pay $7-8k tops, and that's only if it was truly 10/10 cosmetic condition because of the value to have a MKIII that clean cosmetically as a starting point for a full project build. If it's closer to an 8.5/10 because as a long time garage princess owned by a layman, it had boxes stacked on top of it and the paint got dinged up by people not giving a crap about grandpas old car (or grandpa not giving a crap either) then the price moves downward accordingly, more like $6ish.

Needing tires, every imaginable maintenance part from the timing belt back, the A/C serviced and converted to R134A, the brakes bled 3-4 times to get all the old brake fluid out and potentially rebuild all four calipers plus new pads and rotors, new shocks, every fluid, etc.. costs add up fast.

We're also past the frenetic spike in low mile MKIII values, at least for an NA auto. If all the restoration work were done and the car was truly 99-100% across the board, seller is looking at $15-17k tops. Collectors prefer later year cars (91-92) Turbo cars, and 5MT cars, and desirable colors to go along with that low mileage. The only possible plus this car can have is color, and being an '87 it's not going to be a '92 Teal car or a '92 Garnet Pearl or a 91-92 white package, or a 91-92 silver or grey or black with shadow grey leather.

A couple more things need to happen in order to make this any more accurate:
1) Pictures tell the whole story. Get all the pics you can
2) Triage/assess the actual failure. Change the engine oil, get a battery on it, check the compression, check all the fluids, get some fresh fuel in there and attempt to start it.
All of your comments have excellent information and sound advice. I greatly appreciate the time you all spent responding. This a great group. The seller wants $7500. The interior is a 9 and the exterior is an 8.
 
#5 ·
As others noted, some pics would help to assess value to some extent based on visual condition alone.

Additionally, I'm curious as to how the "premium" price is defined here, because a premium price does not compute for a non-running Supra with no service history available.
 
#6 ·
100% agree with @Wreckless on this. I had a 90 turbo A/T back in the day and lucked out a buddy did all the blown head gasket work for basically the cost of parts, which still was around $1000 and that was 15+ years ago (and honestly we probably skipped a lot since we were in our late teens lol) That $5k could be eaten up REAL quick pending condition and your goals. What’s the asking price and your expectations and aspirations? Make a list of “needs” vs “would be nice” and tally up the cost. You don’t want to get invested beyond your expectations and then deal with disappointment of a money pit.

Rebuilding an old car is going to add up fast pending the extent of how far you want to take the restoration. Are all the gaskets and seals around the exterior dry and cracking? That’s a couple hundred bucks right there easy. What condition is the dashboard? If it’s not cracked then hell you could buy the car and sell the dash alone for a few thousand lol uncracked dashes are like a unicorn. OR if it is cracked, so you care to leave it like that or spend the time and money sourcing and replacing it? Just trying to spit ball a few things I don’t recall specifically seeing mentioned already.
 
#10 ·
I would say $7500 is high for this. If there is internal engine damage, your best bet would be to consider an engine swap in your budget.
@Wreckless is a trustworthy source of detailed Supra engine knowledge. Definitely heed his cost advice if this thing turns out to have internal engine issues.
I would not be afraid of taking on just a head gasket for the kind of budget you are talking, but I would definitely talk the price down for the unexpected. This would not be a bad car for someone doing his/her own work, but its that needing a shop thing that could send this in the wrong direction investment wise. These cars can be labor intensive and you need mechanics who know how to handle the old systems this car has.
The guys are spot on about value of that one, tops is $15k so you definitely want to be somewhere south of that number all in. If you felt comfortable in the $15k price range I'm sure you could find a nice example out there without the immediate engine trouble to worry about and you could enjoy the car.
I had been around these cars a lot in the past and decided to get one a few years ago before they were all gone. When mine arrived, the interior and exterior appearance cleaned up to showroom and the car ran reliably but there were some mechanical issues and part changes needed that I am still working through. These were mostly issues I would expect in a 34 year old car. I have already put about $5k in mine on top of what I paid for it and it was already running when I got it. For me the big surprise was a poorly modified exhaust system that I reverted back to as close to stock as I could get it today. That's where half of my expense went. Fortunately I can do most of the work myself so you can understand where the cost would be if I sent the car out for all of these repairs. I also plan to keep the car mostly stock. When I get more time and shop space I plan to remove the head to address the gasket, oil seals and a known leaking exhaust valve. For me a quiet shop and a car to work through is my meditation and where I can escape to. My wife thinks its worth the money to keep me out of her business.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for sharing. I wish I could "apprentice" under those of you that are capable and willing to work on these yourselves. An engine swap is an excellent idea if the current one is beyond reasonable repair. A photo I have of my 86.5 has "yellowed" over time, which is a good reminder how many years have passed since these were new!
 
#12 ·
I tried my first head gasket job when I was 18 on a 4cyl Datsun. I fouled the thing up so bad I had no choice but to have it towed from my father's house to a shop. The mechanic told me he was going to charge me extra for screwing things up so bad. In the end he took me back into the shop and showed me everything I did wrong. The bill was my tuition payment.