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Discussion Starter #1
What do y'all think about suspension by Ground Control. These are independant compression and rebound adjustable (separate controls).

I am thinking about getting a set of these because I've seen what independant controls can do for my motorcycle and I am weary about a single control for both items on other suspension packages that are being sold on the market. I guess those single adjustable are good, but I want a more perfect ride... perhaps dial it in to mimick german suspension.

I thought this would be a good idea because people's cars are different weights and so are their wheels. The drawback for me would be that I would have to spend a lot of time dialing-in this suspension set... does anyone know where I could possibly take the car in So-Cal (SD preferred) to get it dialed in by a pro? Maybe a pit crew at a track or some sort?
 

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These are very popular with the SCCA, and NASA road racers. They do have a specific Supra set-up, and some experience with our cars. I will be running these in my RX7 road race car. Try to talk to Jay Morris directly about them. Carl
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the commment..but who is Jay Morris?
 

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Owner/designer of Advanced Design dampers
 

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What do you intend to use your Supra for mostly? I have the Ground Control/Advance Design setup you are talking about. I've been very pleased with them thus far, although I cannot compare them to a single-adjustable setup as I've never had one on my car.

My car is mostly a weekend toy, and I have gotten fairly heavy into doing driving events at road courses. When I originally got the setup, I went with 800lbs front, and 550lbs rear spring rates - I really wanted something more heavily biased toward the racetrack. I was absolutely floored when I put these on the car, and realized that it was at least - if not more - comfortable of a ride than I had with my previous Eibach Pro Kit / Bilstein setup (apparently thats what a very high quality shock will do for you)! I ran it like this for one weekend and then moved up to 1100lbs front, and 700lbs rear which I am still tinkering with on the track, but really like so far.

I will tell you however that I would not recommend the GC/ADs for a daily driven car. The shocks themselves are noisy!! They make a kind of clicking noise, almost like a muffled "marbles in a can" kind of sound. No big deal for a mostly toy car, but I think it would really get on my nerves if I drove the car a lot every day.
 

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The GC/AD will absolutely not last on the street, GC recomends a rebuild at the end of every season, assuming trailering plus 10 weekends of racing, and testing. I would imagine they probably last much longer, but I don't know for sure. This info is from the site. Even the Tein HAs do not last that well on the street, I have had 3 of four rebuilt in less than 20,000 miles due to leaking.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
in2twins said:
The GC/AD will absolutely not last on the street, GC recomends a rebuild at the end of every season, assuming trailering plus 10 weekends of racing, and testing. I would imagine they probably last much longer, but I don't know for sure. This info is from the site. Even the Tein HAs do not last that well on the street, I have had 3 of four rebuilt in less than 20,000 miles due to leaking.
Whoa... thanks... good information to know.. so ... what are we suggesting for a good set of suspension? Something that rides nicely... hope you don't think I'm ignorant, but I really like the feel that BMW and Audi's give. I know there might be a slight technology difference...but something that can get me close to that and something that will last a relatively decent amount of time.
 

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Off hand, I will try the JICs next, lots of good feedback from users. Feedback on customer service should you need a rebuild is off, and on. I am really frustrated with the HAs durability, although I'm no sure if I just got a bad set. The HKS are too soft for most track work, although when combined w/Big adj. bars they may be O'k. I will be buying Titan adj. bars next, and then we'll see. Also the Teins are noisy compared to HKS, and JIC. There are many others out there,but I think for an all-around good dual use coilover the JIC is worth trying. Carl
 

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I have the GC/AD coilover set up for Koni shocks and I have them set up for comp&rebound control. I am only runnig 950 fronts and 550 rears and i have a few track events on them. I love them and the guys @ GC told me that fo daily driving the koni's would be the best choice. You might want to look into this as the cost and durability are both very good.
 

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Konis are NOT Advanced Design, they are not related, I have Koni yellows on my other car, and they are durable, but they are not anything near the performance of the Advanced Design dampers. Like I said, there are lots of choices on dual use set-ups, but race only dampers will not last on the street. This goes for the dampers we have talked about, there are others, that may fit both bills, but I am not aware of them.
 
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TGIF 1 said:


I will tell you however that I would not recommend the GC/ADs for a daily driven car. The shocks themselves are noisy!! They make a kind of clicking noise, almost like a muffled "marbles in a can" kind of sound. No big deal for a mostly toy car, but I think it would really get on my nerves if I drove the car a lot every day.
Hey Ron! I was hanging out w/ Jay the other day here in Atlanta. I mentioned to him you said they were a little bit noisy on your Supra. I think he said you might have the older spring pearch. I know they used to make some noise on my friend's race car until he updated them.

BTW Jay updated the kit for the Supra so they bolt right in w/o any issues. I'm running 800/550 for the street and think they are extremely streetable. I haven't driven my Supra on the track w/ the suspension, but I've seen well driven low hp cars HAUL @ road courses w/ this setup.

-Clark
 

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I have the koni yellow, GC sleeve, Eibach ERS linear springs with 800lb fronts and 500lb rear. Mine is set on the high end as to the shocks. The ride is definitely harsher than stock but it is not a daily and I use it for track work and some Solo 2. I am happy with it so far. Boostleak, I thought my spring rates were on the upper end of the OK range for the Koni yellows according to Truechoice a Koni authorized revalver. If you are reporting good life in the 950 range that is encouraging. Somebody said something about using HKS might be OK for track work with the Big Ass Sway set up. I don't understand how a sway bar can "compensate" for a dampener. Dampeners don't control "sway" and vica versa. My impression of the Big Ass Sway is it is overkill anyway and adversely affects the car's ability to turn in and instead "skitters" on turn in. I have been made aware of other issues with it as well. Me if I go further on suspension I may go with some custom Konis with a slighter higher spring rate in the same ratio range.
Barry H.
boostleak said:
I have the GC/AD coilover set up for Koni shocks and I have them set up for comp&rebound control. I am only runnig 950 fronts and 550 rears and i have a few track events on them. I love them and the guys @ GC told me that fo daily driving the koni's would be the best choice. You might want to look into this as the cost and durability are both very good.
 

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bwill said:
Somebody said something about using HKS might be OK for track work with the Big Ass Sway set up. I don't understand how a sway bar can "compensate" for a dampener. Dampeners don't control "sway" and vica versa.
I don't know about the mkiv hks coilovers, but on the mk3 it is the spring that is too soft. The hks dampeners are plenty stiff for even more spring (I'm on 18/36 and 16/36 on my dampeners and they are bordering on too stiff for street)
 

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I made that statement, and as MA71 pointed out the dampers are not the issue, the springs are on the soft side. As for opinions on the BA sway bars(obviously there are a number of competive track guys using them), you have to look at the entire package. For a car that is primarily a street car, lower rates, and bigger bars are a good compromise IMHO. Remember, the individual asking the question is not a hardcore track guy. As for the best track set-up under say ~2500.00 I think the GC/AD is the ticket, you can spend more, but without a cage, and/or alot of other stiffening of the chassis, most would not realise much benefit from the higher end set-ups.
Regards, Carl
 

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in2twins. I was ready to go with the full AD set up but after consulting with the guys @ AD they felt for a track/street car the revalved Konis and GC coilover set up was better than their full race set up due to the need to be rebulit every year. There is alot that can be done to a set of koni's with the right springs. and the cost is only slightly lower than the AD coilovers. If you have not tried them you should get in a car and go for a ride. You must have the dual control koni's both rebound and compresion
 

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Agreed on the Konis, I have the single adjustable Konis(like them alot) on my race car, but will be switching to the AD as it is a track only car, and have just completed a comprehensive stiffening project. I can offset the price by selling my current set-up. It would cost me almost a grand to convert my konis to double adjustable, and I have to have them revalved regardless to accomadate the higher spring rates that will be experimenting with. I think the Konis are a smart choice. Later, Carl
BTW, I am only ~1.5 hours away, and I go to Thunderhill fairly often, Let's hook-up sometime. There is a 25 hour Enduro at Thunderhill this weekend, LOTS of big guns s/b present.
 
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The only way I've seen to have a decent street ride in a race shock is to buy one of the wide range of adjustment shocks, such as Moton, JRZ or Ohlins. You'll pay alot more up front, but you'll have a much better ride for a dual purpose car, and it'll be faster on the track than a less expensive race shock if you're running higher spring rates. The more expensive shocks do a more precise job of damping a car that has relatively little suspension travel on the track. They are able to do this because they move more fluid per unit of suspension travel than the less expensive shocks. Like many things in this world, you get what you pay for, and there is no free lunch.

I put a set of Motons on my car a year ago and would do it again. I had reservations about paying so much for a set of shocks, but knew the benefits on the track. What I didn't know is how nice they are for street driving.

Regarding the big a** bar issue, I've spent all season experimenting with different spring rates and bar combinations on the track, and have settled on no rear bar at all as the fastest setup for my car. The car puts power down out of the corner much better without a rear bar. My car is very neutral now on the track. BTW, I'm using the TRD 27% bar in front.

I was unable to get the front to grip adequately for track use until I got 3 degrees of camber in front. I'd say that's square one for the track, after big tires and wheels. I could never completely dial out the understeer until the front alignment was changed.


Jeff
 

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Jeff, why don't you PM me with info on the Motons you would use on a dual use Supra, You're a "dealer" right?
I guess for an 88 rx7 while your at it. Thanks, Carl
707-696-2705
 

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I run them on my honda daily, gc/konis for about 4years. honda rates are a bit softer 400f 450r though. when I rebuild them, I'll revale them and jump spring rates.
 
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