[LJM61]

Last year I went to a rad shop and had them do a re-core of my OEM rad. When I mentioned the problems with cooling the car, the guy said that he could do the re-core with a "High Efficiency" "Large Tube" truck style core segment saying that it would be 25 to 30% more efficient and less likely to get blocked like my original did. So I went for it.

While we were talking, I also mentioned to him that the intercoolers on the MKIII's were pretty useless, to which he said: "I can recore that Too!"

Now heres my question. Has anyone here gone that route using the stock intercooler? If So, To what effect?

The reason why I'm asking is that I have come to believe that a lot of the cooling problems with the MKIII's is that there are too many obstructions messing up the air flow before the air hits the rad. Included in that path is also the air conditioning condensor.
And on top of that, the layout may not be the best for maximizing cooling.

Any input would be appreciated....

P.S.>>>
I do also realize that a major part of the cooling issue is the location of the first catalytic perverter right next to the block, and that going to a 3" DP would also eliminate most of that issue.

 

[LJM61]

OK!!!

I see lots of subject interest butttt no takers.

Allow me to put this question another way since I'm looking for more info on intercoolers in general.

What's the difference internally between a top end I-C and say the stock MKIII units.

I'm asking because I'm also looking at alternate units to substitue, and if it is possible to do a re-core (which is friken cheap) and with the possability to actually re-coring it for improved performance is also possible this can open up to cheaper sources for intercoolers.

ALSO!
Could an intercooler from a ALLTRAC Celica(water to air cooler) type be used?

Come on folks... Share ANY thoughts on this you have.

 

[amorak]

The stock Intercooler is a fine unit, it's simply the IC piping that's the problem.

As far as re-coring goes, I've never heard of it in the intercooler area, so I'd hazard to guess that there are obstacles that make a new aftermarket unit a better option.

 

[mdcmotorsports]

sounds like a good idea... and it is possible to do by a qualified radiator shop.
Be the guinea pig like I was with the Dodge truck turbo and give it a try and let all the rest of us know.

 

[LJM61]

Thanks for the reply Amorak!

Funny though, Several Supra folk have told me it's a lousy intercooler compared to many other factory units...
Namely the RX7T, Mazda 626t and even thoughs from Talons.

The guy I was refering to told me he re-cores truck intercoolers all the time.

No I',ve heard about the piping issue. So what isit about the pipe that make them bad(too narrow?, Inconsistant diameter? material?)

The reason I've raised this issue is because Aftermarket units are so prohibitive in cost. What's the best bang for the buck in an aluminum or stainless unit? The cheapest I've ever seen in Ontario in around $700Cnd.

 

[LJM61]

Thanks for biting mdcmotoesports!!

I was thinking about doing just that by buying an OEM from a parts car and spending the $100(that's right!!!Only $100 bones)

But from what your telling me, sounds like you had a HARD lesson with the truck turbo... How did that turn out for you???

 

[amorak]

I suggest you search around, but basically the fender piece goes down to some 1 1/2" diameter The diameter is very small all around + the 3000 pipe is a restriction.

What mods do you have that neccesitate an IC upgrade? Unless you've maked out a CT-26 upgrade, hardpipes on a cleaned out stock IC is fine!

 

[LJM61]

I haven't really started with the addon modes yet. But I did already have an HKS "Stopper" gasket and ARP's done after my BHG. Other than that, just the high flow rad. But my reasons so far is to go for the mods in a logical order so as not to cause any damage to the engine.(the $4k rebuild made me gunshy for a while)

I'm thinking of sticking with the stock turbo and I want to switch a the 3" DP & matching cat back system. But since that freer flow would require better performance on the induction side, I thought it wiser to have the improved IC system in place before the DP install. (BTW thanks for the Hardpipe tip)

Raw HP isn't my ultimate goal. Handling IS!
Buttt I would like to improve the HP to the 325+ side, but not much more. I would still like to drive it daily for 8-9 months of the year. I don't want a part breaking machine. Just to make an already amazing car the way they should have from the factory!

 

[Rajunz]

Raw HP isn't my ultimate goal. Handling IS!
Buttt I would like to improve the HP to the 325+ side, but not much more. I would still like to drive it daily for 8-9 months of the year. I don't want a part breaking machine. Just to make an already amazing car the way they should have from the factory!

WOW, some one with a practical goal!
I think your idea about the IC is a great one. The factory IC really is a good IC, just crappy piping kills it. Two things that I found really woke up the stock setup more than anything else. Changed the IC piping to 2 1/2" and bored out the turbo elbow. Those two things made it spool instantly. If you have any fabricating skills, you can build the piping pretty inexpensively. www.jcwhitney.com and find mandrel exhaust bends. Even if you can't weld, if you can route them, mark them, then take the parts to a welding shop. Then all you need is 2 1/2" rubber hoses to make connectors out of. Good Luck.

 

[shiva]

everyone's been saying the stock IC is pretty good, but i have doubts about how true that is.

http://socalsupras.com/tuning/mk3intercooler.htm
that article says cartech tested a 2psi drop across the core at 7psi.

i also read a post where someone mentioned that someone else ran better at the TRACK with no intercooler and a clocked compressor housing at stock boost compared to running the stock intercooler. might be more related to the piping issue, and of course it's hearsay.

but yeah if these things are true the stock intercooler seems pretty shitty. who knows how much teh end tank design has to do with this (probably a fair amount), so maybe recoring wont be so advantageous

anyone have anything that backs up the stock ic being a decent unit?

 

[LJM61]

Hi Rajunz!

IF you asked my wife about my practical and modest goals...
She wouldn't agree with you... Buttt thanks!

Refering to both your and Shiva's comments regarding the quality\efficiency of the stock intercooler. I would have to say that I've taken comments from 2 people many of you here on SF HIGHLY Respect when it comes to their knowledge and experience with both MKIII & MKIV Supra's(Daimon & Phil) and both agreed that the OEM_IC is pretty much useless when compared to other oem units like the RX7t and 626t units even before mentioning aftermarket and upscale pro units.

So I would have to bow to these 2 guys when it comes to there impressions.

I totally agree that the IC piping would make a startling difference to performance. But I could imagine that taking even an improved re-cored unit and at to that the 2.5 inch piping... that would be even more noticible. and WHHHAYYY cheaper than spending $700+++++ on a pretty stainless unit.(as nice as that would be)

The entire reason I'm thinking in these terms at all is because I have a limited budget and more than one expensive interest to maintain(Digital Home Recording Studio that I'm building up & the Fishing Boat I've always wnated) not to mention kids... Oh and the wife!!! LOL (I'm lucky she's low maintenace... Unlike my other love... My MKIII!

I just think that we as a community could do way more to get more cars on the road and enjoy them instead of having so many expensive garage jewelry blingbling and empty bank accounts.
Except for but a hand full of us, how many will be entering their cars in a show? I only want to drive mine in search of the perfect winding road!

But maybe that's just me!

 

[Ckanderson]

Well id have to say replacing the intercooler made a large differance even at 12 psi. power stays on, doesnt drop off as it did when the stock one would heat soak. i am also able to spin my tires when boost comes on in first now, before i couldent...

 

[87Tmk3]

I would ask for the flow number on that new core. I bet they are not much better than stock. The stock IC is good up to about 10psi. I think you will need more than that to reach you power goals.
I do agree with your statements about the garage jewelry and the perfect winding road.

 

[LJM61]

Hi Ckanderson & 87Tmk3!!!

Well your point about the difference in consistency talks to me.
I like a car that always responds in the same way with no surprises. My driving style depends on the car doing exactly what I want when I want and need it most... that kkeps me way out of trouble and allows me to control situations better. So based on that need alone, finding a superior and linear responding IC would bennefit me most.

P.S.>>>
You must foregive my writing style.
I'm used to writing on a Ferrari fan web site where most readers have extreme romantic notions(myself included) about the adventures of driving with power and driving well in great and exciting locations... Not to mention on road racing circuits.

I might try my hand at telling some stories I and some friends have experienced.

 

[ZaZZn]

Well i have a question.. If the stock unit is so useless? Why did I put 445 to the ground on it?

I'd say what you need to achieve you're goal is a upgraded ct26 (so you dont have to run such high boost) and hard pipes (not needed if you bump the boost up) and you're right there.. I think there is other places to upgrade before you upgrade you're intercooler... It's only now after 400+RWHP that I finally broke down and bought a 1080 CFM Spearco (higest flowing one they have) in hopes that I'll gain heafty amounts as well as remove the restriction in my plubbing.

Most people I have seen that put a intercooler like mine in only gain 10RWHP at 300 RWHP hp... IMO that's not worth 900 of my money... However 700 for a 100 RWHP hp gain is one hell of a bargan.. (canadian money guys)

 

[LJM61]

Howdy ZaZZn!!!
Good question, and that's exactly the kind of recoarse I'm looking for in this thread. I want to hear both sides of the experience line so I can make up my own mind.

Like I've mentioned. Spending $700 bones on any one part is what I'm trying to avoid. Well at least as few times as possible.
It will cost that much++ for my DP & CatBak system, another $700 for a set of used rims, And another for a Springs & Shock upgrade, Tires, and that as a minimum for my Paint retouch, and god knows what else. That's why I'm looking for those less expensive tweeks. Besides, I'm already in for $4+k on my engine rebuild alone.

Now. Going by what you just told us(which is quite impressive to say the least) Perhaps then I might decide to go the $100 Re-Core to an improved spec and add the new 2.5" hardpipe kit and trust your input as it being a wise and do-able option!

P.S.>>>
So are you telling us then that you have NOT experienced the famous 2psi drop at 10psi under hard boost?
If not... perhaps we have another issue here regarding just how consistant the OEM IC's are... Or perhaps, those made from some years are better than others? Are those from a 92 any better or different in any way to those found on an 88? (like mine)???
I'd sure like to know that!

 

[Enraged]

try the recore and hardpipes. if it doesnt turn out the way you want, sell the recore on ebay, and pick up a core from RRE with some endtanks, and your done.

i have to get a new IC due to a different setup, however if the core im getting is crap, ill have to mod the stock IC for a bit...

 

[LJM61]

Hi Enraged!

Yep!
At the moment, I'd have to say that's the direction I'm leaning.
But I'm still going to hunt down specs from other OEM IC's and find out if any Mazda RX7t unit is layed out in a usable way.

BTW...
What do you mean by RRE Core and end tanks?
Are you talking about doing a home made jobby?
Or do you mean, to take to a re-core specialist to put together and install?

And how much are we talking for the RRE Core & end tanks?

THX!

 

[GreaseMonkey]

This site is a exceltent resource. http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm#Shape or Profile

If you read the end tanks part it talking about reciculation on our type of intercoolers (top to bottem).

 

[Enraged]

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/intercoolers.htm

Griffin 24"x10"x2.75" core $340
HKS cast endtanks (you'll need #39 and #15): $150
get it welded at a local shop, or pay them $60 to do it for you.

OR get the core, build and weld your own endtanks (if you have the equipment and knowledge).

do a search, there are a few people running this setup.

HTH