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Have any of you considered buying a diesel? It seems that VW is the only one offering them in cars. Honda is rumored to bring a diesel offering to the states soon. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Are they worth the hassle of being an uncommon car and people not being readily available to service them? I hear they run forever. Is it really worth it in terms of gas savings. I would like to see an ownership comparison between something like a yaris and a diesel. They can both get 40-45 mpg right?

I have been on tdiclub and vwvortex looking around, just wanted to get some thoughts from everyone here.
 

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2JZ Mk2
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Sure, but you can't buy them here so you have to buy used ones for a huge price premiums. I doubt a Yaris gets 45mpg probably more like 36-38 in the real world. Small VW diesels will get near 50mpg. Hopefully BMW will bring over the 3 series diesel they have in Europe.
 

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I don't drive a Supra
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I'd happily buy a diesel daily driver. The low-end TQ is great, along with gas-mileage.

I Germany I drove a 2.0Tdi VW Passat and it was great.
 

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No.
 

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Agreed. And most people are getting ~40 MPG with Jetta Diesels (3 people here at work average between 38 and 41 MPG).

If I were to go that route I would get a Prius, with conservative driving you are looking at ~50 MPG. There's 5 people here at work with Prius's (Prii?) and the highest average is 54MPG (mostly city) lowest is averaging 47 MPG (more freeway). Two others are getting ~51 MPG. The fifth guy is getting ~49 MPG.

Of course VW's less than garbage quality keeps me away from them as well.
 

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Hawtness
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i think you have that backwards.....54 city and 47 freeway? but none the less that would be very nice to have isntead of my 20mpg :(
 

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i think you have that backwards.....54 city and 47 freeway? but none the less that would be very nice to have isntead of my 20mpg :(
He's exactly right, hybrids are more efficient in the city as they're not idling sitting at stoplights and such, and lower speeds = less drag = less fuel consumption.
 

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He's exactly right, hybrids are more efficient in the city as they're not idling sitting at stoplights and such, and lower speeds = less drag = less fuel consumption.
Think about that statement real quick... Hybrids get better gas mileage in the city because they are running off of the battery more then they are off of gas, that is why they get get better gas mileage in the city then they do on the highway. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that you spend less time at traffic lights in the city then you do on the highway, but I would love to know...
 

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Don't forget that Merecedes has quite a few diesel offerings and if they aren't already here, the bluetec diesels will be there shortly, plus they put a diesel in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, and are rumored to be putting one in the 300C and Commander.
 

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Besides the economy that could o could not be offered by the diesel vehicles, I would think about the benefits of being able to use Biodiesel, which have been proved to reduce all emission gases and help cleaning this damn planet...It doesn't affect the engine performance, which is a plus for most.
 

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I would. The MB CDI E-class has awesome performance vs. fuel economy for its weight class for minimal penalty over the gas version probably due to some absorption of profits on DC's end. But the cheaper the turbodiesel car, the less impressive its performance vs. fuel economy tradeoff due to reasons below. I think gas-electric hybrids if made in high enough volumes extend down to cheaper markets with better fuel economy vs. performance tradeoff more naturally.

Just note:

Turbodiesels are very nice in heavy duty/continuous high load applications. Gasoline-hybrids are great for lighter duty. The GM two-mode hybrid will supposedly extend the hybrid viability to semi-heavy duty.

Both are expensive and the cost-benefit is getting there with these higher gas prices.

With diesel it's the aftertreatment expense, high pressure fuel injection system (up to half the cost of the whole turbodiesel approach), heavy duty block and moving parts, and lots of research going into low engine-out/pre-aftertreatment emissions.

Hybrid is expensive from the batteries, lots of funds going into battery research, lots of development work into integration/calibration (70% of GM's two-mode hybrid work is in the calibration work alone), possible use of a high expansion ratio Atkinson cycle scheme, usual complementary aero/tire resistance development, as well as power electronics engineering and thermal management.

Diesel is getting quieter, but hybrid gas-electric has inherent advantages as long as electric cooling fan noise is contained. Hence a good alternative for luxury brands and a natural fit to Toyota/Lexus high refinement design criteria.

Diesel compression ratios are going down to extend the rev range and help certain emissions components. Meanwhile gas direct injection paired with boosting compression ratios are fairly high. Some see this as a convergence of gasoline and diesels down the road. Probably gas direct injection with turbos have the best high performance vs. fuel economy tradeoff vs cost tradeoff (can't beat mid-13 s. 3600 lb. BMW 335 that gets 20/29 2007 EPA numbers). Turbodiesels are the best durability vs. fuel economy vs. cost tradeoff with good performance too. Hybrids are a great refinement vs. fuel economy vs. cost with good performance if a full hybrid approach is used.

Toyota abandoned mild hybrids due to low cost benefit and are pulling ahead with their 3rd or 4th gen. commercial offerings. Honda doesn't offer a truly full hybrid (maybe because they don't think it's ready for prime time) and feels mild hybrids mixed with cyl. deactivation on a bigger gas motor has a good tradeoff. GM's usual tiered powertrain approach based on the target market is going to happen in their catch-up plan for hybrids: mild parallel hybrid for low cost segments, 2-mode full parallel hybrid for performance and higher end segments, and a plug-in serial hybrid Volt by 2010 for flagship green tech.

Honda's plasma selective catalytic reduction technology breakthrough announced last fall will help reduce NOx and other emissions without the urea/external storage/periodic refill hassle's of MB's approach. The Honda catalyst will actually produce the ammonia to reduce the NOx!!! All this development means they see a business case to spend R&D money there. GM took away a lot of Detroit Diesel engineers in their scramble for diesel tech and likely developing in-house integration as well as fluid simulation models for reduced precious metal loading on the expensive catalysts to satisfy strict regulations...and they've made some great progress for low temperature compression ignition on the heels of EPA's own experimental stuff.
 

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I have two diesels in my household. I have an '07 Mercedes-Benz ML320CDI kid-hauler and '05 F250 Superduty. The ML320CDI is excellent. Gets better mileage than the gas version and you really can't even tell its a diesel by listening to it. No soot, no smell.
However, my F250 with 8" lift, 37s, exhaust and xtreme tune is the exact opposite and fits the loud, smoky diesel stereotype.
 

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Agreed. And most people are getting ~40 MPG with Jetta Diesels (3 people here at work average between 38 and 41 MPG).

If I were to go that route I would get a Prius, with conservative driving you are looking at ~50 MPG. There's 5 people here at work with Prius's (Prii?) and the highest average is 54MPG (mostly city) lowest is averaging 47 MPG (more freeway). Two others are getting ~51 MPG. The fifth guy is getting ~49 MPG.

Of course VW's less than garbage quality keeps me away from them as well.
No way dude, I may be biased being that I have an '02 Golf TDI for a daily driver, but diesel is the way to go rather than hybrids. After research, I chose the diesel.

1) Reliability - VW diesels last forever! It's not uncommon for a TDI to go over 250,000 without any major work at all. Hybrid batteries are expected to last 100,000 from what I understand and the replacement cost eats up what you save on gas. Not only that, but hybrids are new technology. Who knows how about the longetivity of the average hybrid. Diesels aren't new technology. They've been around for a long time now and they get better with each new generation.

2) Fun-to-drive factor - This one's no comparison. VW diesels are torque monsters while the Prius has 76 horsepower. It's also a piece of cake to increase the power of a diesel. I may be wrong on this one, but it's a lot harder to do that on a hybrid and the labor must be really hard!

3) Eco-Friendliness - You can run it on biodiesel and be extremely environmentally friendly if you'd like to! And the production of a diesel engine is no where NEAR as harmful to the environment as the production of a hybrid engine. According to Central Connecticut State University, a Prius even outdoes a Hummer in environmental damage and we all know that's no easy task! Here's your proof: http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

4) Visual Appeal - Of course this one is completely subjective, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that most people will agree that a diesel powered Golf, Passat, or Jetta looks far better than a Prius. hehe, again that's just a guess though!
 

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1) Reliability - VW diesels last forever! It's not uncommon for a TDI to go over 250,000 without any major work at all. Hybrid batteries are expected to last 100,000 from what I understand and the replacement cost eats up what you save on gas. Not only that, but hybrids are new technology. Who knows how about the longetivity of the average hybrid. Diesels aren't new technology. They've been around for a long time now and they get better with each new generation.!
Incorrect, hybrid batteries are supposed to last the life of the car, ~300K miles. Toyota bought one of the first hybrids to hit 250K miles from a Taxi driver in New York, the original batteries were still in full working order. In fact Toyota claims they have yet to replace a battery pack on any of their hybrids due to a reliability/durability issue.


2) Fun-to-drive factor - This one's no comparison. VW diesels are torque monsters while the Prius has 76 horsepower. It's also a piece of cake to increase the power of a diesel. I may be wrong on this one, but it's a lot harder to do that on a hybrid and the labor must be really hard!!
It is easier to increase the power on a turbodiesel. But the VW diesel cars I have driven were not much fun to drive. A Prius isn't either.

3) Eco-Friendliness - You can run it on biodiesel and be extremely environmentally friendly if you'd like to! And the production of a diesel engine is no where NEAR as harmful to the environment as the production of a hybrid engine. According to Central Connecticut State University, a Prius even outdoes a Hummer in environmental damage and we all know that's no easy task! Here's your proof: http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188
This article is not only biased but it has no proof of what actually goes into a Prius. Notice no source for their claims on where the nickel came from, etc. Notice also they claim the hybrid's life at 100K miles, also with no proof and off by a margin of 3. Batteries are built for all kinds of applications, a few extra batteries for hybrids is a drop in the bucket. Not to mention the availability of bio-diesel is low and diesels are such bad polluters that they can't be sold in California emmission states.


4) Visual Appeal - Of course this one is completely subjective, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that most people will agree that a diesel powered Golf, Passat, or Jetta looks far better than a Prius. hehe, again that's just a guess though!

This is subjective, I think the Jetta and Passat are good looking (the Golf is ugly to me) but I also like the way the Prius looks.

The Prius trumps them all in quality as VW always ranks at the bottom. And Prius owners can use the carpool lanes by themselves in many states.
 

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Wangan Nasty
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Diesel, I would not be caught dead in a hybrid. better or not, i would drive a diesel. The only hybrid that appeals to me right now is the Altima Hybrid, and since i work for Nissan i can get a nice discount off the price tag.
 

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We have an E class diesel. Its the new bluetec. Its a really nice car, no more noise then a normal gas engine. In fact we are going over to Germany to pick up another one in a week. They are still so hard to get, the used ones sell for as much as the new pretty much paying for your trip over there and back.
 

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Hybrid lifespan from the Pirus FAQ section on the Toyota website:

"Prius is designed to be as durable as any other Toyota, which considering Toyota's reputation, is a pretty long time. In addition, the hybrid battery has been made smaller and more durable than its predecessor."

Considering most Toyotas last 300K+ miles when properly maintained this says a lot.
 
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