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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently purchased a HPF clutch w/ a sprung hub w/ a new RPS billet flywheel. Our mechanic at our body/mechanical shop installed the clutch according to (HPF)Chris's writeup exactly. I installed the clutch right after I got done installing my SP71GTQ. I drove the car around and broke the clutch exactly as stated, I did not hit any boost at all because I didnt have my SP fuel installed yet. After I broke the clutch in, the car was down for about 2 month while I installed the fuel system. I got the car done 3 days ago, I drove it around easy to make sure all the fuel settings were corrrect and the clutch felt really good. The 2nd day of driving it, I was getting on the car and it pulled REALLY hard.. everything seemed perfect. Today I went out to do a pass on the highway from a stop to really feel the turbo, I launched the car nice in 1st, I went to shift into 2nd and the car wouldnt go into 2nd. I believe the clutch shit the bed... it will not go into gear at all. I shut the car off, put it in 1st gear, pushed the clutch in and when I went to start the car it pulled foward as it started as if there was no clutch. I am very frustrated at this point, I have put $10,000+ into this car along with a $1000 clutch / flywheel setup, broke it in properly, made one pass on it and it shit the bed. I have heard of AZ disks "welding" together and people have been able to break them loose. I was able to get the car home in 2nd gear since the highway was not far from my house. I cannot get the clutch to break free. I was wondering if anyone else had this problem? I used all new bearings and hardware also with the install. PLEASE HELP!!
 

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D-Bag
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That sucks. maybe talk to Chris and see if he has any kind of warranty or something. Hate to say it but might as well throw down for the WOTM.com clutch.

Good luck
 

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Since you said you can only get the car in gear when it is off, makes me believe you seized the disc to the flywheel. I did the same if this was the case for you. I jacked my car up and supported it with jack stands. I then took the check plates off the tranny to look inside whats wrong. Had my friend depress the clutch and saw the the disc was not releasing from the flywheel. I used to flat head screwdrives and put pressure upon both sides and popped the disc free. Got back on the rode and feathered the clutch to burn the left over material off a bit.

On another note though....two weeks later at the track again the pressure plate gave and my pedal was very mushy hehe. Oh well part of playing I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Supralative said:
Since you said you can only get the car in gear when it is off, makes me believe you seized the disc to the flywheel. I did the same if this was the case for you. I jacked my car up and supported it with jack stands. I then took the check plates off the tranny to look inside whats wrong. Had my friend depress the clutch and saw the the disc was not releasing from the flywheel. I used to flat head screwdrives and put pressure upon both sides and popped the disc free. Got back on the rode and feathered the clutch to burn the left over material off a bit.

On another note though....two weeks later at the track again the pressure plate gave and my pedal was very mushy hehe. Oh well part of playing I guess.
Thanks a lot man.. thats what I think is my problem.. or should I rehrase that.. I HOPE thats my problem :)

This clutch is suppost to be similar to the WOTM clutch if im correct. I slipped the HPF clutch the slightes bit.. not close to how I slipped my old rps to get my BPU into the 11's and it locked up. Ill put it up on the rack tommorow and see whats up with it. After that.. its dyno tuning time to see what this SP71GTQ will do :D
 

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pleople down here have sezied the WOTM clutch as well, the solid disk clutch set-up was not good for me

i have HPF's clutch and have no problems yet .

call chris im sure he will fix this problem if its his to blame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ranger498 said:
pleople down here have sezied the WOTM. clutch as well the solid disk clutch set-up was not good for me

i have HPF's clutch and have no problems yet .

call chris im sure he will fix this problem if its his to blame.
I made my decision to get an HPF clutch because of reading some of your posts about the WOTM clutch vs the HPF clutch. So far I love the HPF clutch until this happend, I hope I can just pry them apart. Like I said I sliped it a hair and bam it locked up and I was on the side of the road, luckly the highway was close to my house :D. Im leaving now to take the Supra back down the shop and get it up on the lift to see whats up. Guess its a good time to change the tranny fluid also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Midnight Hour said:
I hope I don't have this problem when I bring my car with the HPF/RPS set-up to the track. :(
yeah me either... i wasnt even at the track i was just playing around on the highway.. im an avid drag racer, im at the track all the time.. hopefully this is just a one time problem. If not ill really be regreting not getting the RPS CC.
 

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SP71Supra said:
yeah me either... i wasnt even at the track i was just playing around on the highway.. im an avid drag racer, im at the track all the time.. hopefully this is just a one time problem. If not ill really be regreting not getting the RPS CC.
Even the RPS CC isn't faultless, Flavio's took a shit rather quickly.
 

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Hua said:
Even the RPS CC isn't faultless, Flavio's took a shit rather quickly.
AMEN!!! I know soo many people that have or have had problems with that thing... Granted Rob is very good business man to deal with and does replace the clutches. That being said... you better know how to change a clutch or that can get expensive in labor.
 

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There are many different grades of ceramic materials. Just because they look the same does not mean they are anywhere near the same. If anyone wants opinions on a clutch they should ask those that use and abuse them most, such as Tony, Matt, Saad or myself. Some will have problems with their clutchs on the street no matter what it is, stock, RPS, WOTM.com, HPF. It's at the track that stresses it most and if there are cars running consistant 9's and going 145-154mph with a clutch, so can you... And if you want go that fast, use the clutch that got those people there:)
 

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WOTM Clutch enough said!!
 

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It is really hard for a single disk clutch to take the abuse of a LOT of passes with high horsepower, high rpm launches on a 2-step with cars running slicks. Both sides of the disk create a tremendous amount of heat.

With that said, I've seen a lot of clutches fail. AZ's, HPF's, RPS's, ACT's, etc. Every clutch has certain points at which it will fail naturally. However.... most that I see fail for other reasons.

1) This is VERY VERY VERY common. Those 6 little pressure plate bolts back out and the clutch slips and either seizes to the flywheel from the heat or makes the pressure plate so hot that it loses its tension or just burns all the material off the disk.
2) People re-use old pressure plates or flywheels and the mating surfaces of the new disk and old pressure plate or flywheel don't match up anymore. Not all of the clutch disk is being used to transfer the force so it slips or gets too hot and fuses.
3) Too short of break-in. The disk only makes contact on the outer edge for a brief period of time while the clutch is being broken in. This slowly works in towards the middle. If during this time too much force is applied or the clutch is launched too agressively for the amount of material in contact, it will slip or seize.
4) Improperly prepped surface. Clean all clutch surfaces thoroughly. I clean all disks, flywheel and pressure plates with brake cleaner until absolutely no black shows up on the towels.
5) Oil coming out of used flywheel bolts. The used flywheel bolts don't have the red sealant anymore and when re-used, oil can leak back out the bolts onto the clutch disk. Get some oil on the disk and say goodbye.
6) Pressure plates failing. We've had several pressure plates fail from the heat. They simply stop applying as much force and the disk no longer has the force against it to keep it from slipping.
7) Flywheel installed out of square. Sometimes we've seen where a flywheel was not installed square against the crank. This caused a lot of vibration and tore up the clutch disk.
8) Used throw-out bearing and pilot bearing. Replace these on every clutch change.
9) Clutch disk installed backwards. Nearly all disks except for the stock one have the cone facing the rear of the car on installation.
10) Clutch pedal adjusted too high. This can often lead to a damaged pressure plate which will in turn result in the clutch disk slipping.

In answer to someone elses question, the HPF clutch is NOT made by RPS.

And in regard to the AZ disk, I've run it twice. I seized the first one 3 times during the course of about 8 months until it ultimately failed. The second one I seized immediately and never put it back in.

That's when I switched to the HPF clutch disk and stopped selling the AZ disk. Ryan lately is having good success with the AZ disk so I'm now selling them again. Both the HPF and the AZ disk can get you into the 9's.

I don't want to give any false assumptions for people with really high hp cars. Both of these clutches will fail and will fuse given too much pressure and heat. However, you'll have much better luck ensuring you follow the 10 items. I recommend people read my clutch tech article thoroughly and do the clutch swap themselves if they can. I've spoken with many mechanics over the phone who did not know even the most basic of concepts.

Take care,
Chris.
 

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Before anyone gets too excited - take off the inspection plates and see WTF. I have an Exidy dual disk purchased from Chris and on a 7400RPM dyno pull it did the SAME thing you'e described! I was convinced it had welded and tried all sorts of things to "break it free". Finally on the advice of Chris and others I got the bitch on a lift and pulled the plates.

Guess what - the BRAND NEW less thna 2K mile TOB from TOYOTA had taken a dump. My mechanic pulled the thing out and was shocked to find that the inner bearing had locked up, spun th eentire assembly, and popped both of the clips that retain the TOB\clutch to the input shaft.:eek:

$1200 clutch assembly, $60 TOB. It was completely taken apart and examined, clutch suffered NO damage. Chris was VERY helpful with phone support and willing to overnight parts if I needed them.

Before getting too bent here figure out EXACTLY what occured and don't guess. You can see alot from the inspection plates. You could have a slave failure, clutch fork failure, TOB failure (used a new one right?), or clip failure all of which would result in a clutch NOT disengaging correctly...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ChrisBergemann said:
I don't want to give any false assumptions for people with really high hp cars. Both of these clutches will fail and will fuse given too much pressure and heat. However, you'll have much better luck ensuring you follow the 10 items. I recommend people read my clutch tech article thoroughly and do the clutch swap themselves if they can. I've spoken with many mechanics over the phone who did not know even the most basic of concepts.

Take care,
Chris.
PROBLEM FIXED !!!! THANKS CHRIS !! I really apprecaite your help and understanding.. to be honest I expected to hear "you bought a high performance clutch which is a wearable item.. you are on your own" and thats totally not what I got.. Chris you are a total stand up guy and I will continue to do business with you. What you said proably happend to my clutch happend. We fixed the problem the clutch made noise for a lil while then cleared up.. tonight with the dense air the car felt really really fast and its not even close to being tuned (its pig rich)...

The only thing im wondering is.. if I slip this clutch at all is it going to lock up again... I do a lot of drag racing im not going to lie.. but I didnt even get to the track yet this year because I just got my fuel on 3 days ago.. all I need now is some tuning and track time and we'll see whats up.

THANKS CHRIS !! & everyone else who replied
 

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So it fused on you then on the first run or there was another issue?

SP71Supra said:
PROBLEM FIXED !!!! THANKS CHRIS !! I really apprecaite your help and understanding.. to be honest I expected to hear "you bought a high performance clutch which is a wearable item.. you are on your own" and thats totally not what I got.. Chris you are a total stand up guy and I will continue to do business with you. What you said proably happend to my clutch happend. We fixed the problem the clutch made noise for a lil while then cleared up.. tonight with the dense air the car felt really really fast and its not even close to being tuned (its pig rich)...

The only thing im wondering is.. if I slip this clutch at all is it going to lock up again... I do a lot of drag racing im not going to lie.. but I didnt even get to the track yet this year because I just got my fuel on 3 days ago.. all I need now is some tuning and track time and we'll see whats up.

THANKS CHRIS !! & everyone else who replied
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
silvino said:
So it fused on you then on the first run or there was another issue?
Well it didnt fuse on my 1st run.. I wasnt at the track but I did give the car a slight launch.. nothing like I would to pull off a 1.71 60' like I did on my BPU car at the track. I just hope it dosent do it anymore...
 

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I'm still confused. It didn't fuse at all? If so, what did happen? You're not being very clear and I'm curious as to what happened in your car, thanks! :)

SP71Supra said:
Well it didnt fuse on my 1st run.. I wasnt at the track but I did give the car a slight launch.. nothing like I would to pull off a 1.71 60' like I did on my BPU car at the track. I just hope it dosent do it anymore...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
silvino said:
I'm still confused. It didn't fuse at all? If so, what did happen? You're not being very clear and I'm curious as to what happened in your car, thanks! :)
Yes it fused.. but not at the track.. it fused on the street
 

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yep, my HPF clutch disk also fused to the flywheel. i guess this is part of trying to balance out launching at high RPM and high HP a single disk clutch.

i had the exact same symptoms as SP71 but mine had popped out after my third pass at the track (when i fused it)..
it made some grinding sound but as chris stated to me on the phone, just slip the clutch for a while and it should be back good.
after a day or two, the grinding went away and the clutch is real smooth again.

i'm with SP71 with chris' help and support on his items and information in general is fabulous :D
they don't only have a lot of experience and knowledge about high HP supras but is a great guy as well

has anyone ran into trouble with the TILTON clutch
 
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