[BLK-SP64]

I'm triing to make some decisions about what to do to the car over the winter. I will definately be at many east coast events, I have been reading the IDRC/NiRA rulebooks and have some questions about cars running in the 10's and sometimes 9's.

I have seen loads of people using the AUTOPOWER roll bar. But according tthe rulebook these are not really legal. what gives? Are the sanctioning bodies really not that stringent? If you are running a different type of bar...please list it.

Also, is everyone that runs 10's legally using 5pt safety harnesses that are sfi approved or just 4pt's or none at all??


lastly, are sfi rated pants/jacket/gloves really necessary...or is the helmet the only thing they relly look at??



any help would go a long way....thanks

 

[Sound Performance]

When are you going to call me??


Lar
SP

 

[Jason S.]

I'm triing to make some decisions about what to do to the car over the winter. I will definately be at many east coast events, I have been reading the IDRC/NiRA rulebooks and have some questions about cars running in the 10's and sometimes 9's.

I have seen loads of people using the AUTOPOWER roll bar. But according tthe rulebook these are not really legal. what gives?

These bars, sometimes get through tech, but not always. Especially if you are going to be competitive, some guys will complain because they spent the money to have a proper cage installed and you haven't.



Are the sanctioning bodies really not that stringent?

NHRA events are pretty strict. Most people don't realize if you run over 135mph you have to have a full welded 8-point cage. Rhumor has it they are going to crack down on this next year.


If you are running a different type of bar...please list it.

Also, is everyone that runs 10's legally using 5pt safety harnesses that are sfi approved or just 4pt's or none at all??

11.99 or quicker you need a belt. Again sometimes people get through, but if they ask what you run, and you are under the limit they will look.


lastly, are sfi rated pants/jacket/gloves really necessary...or is the helmet the only thing they relly look at??

Same thing, if they ask and your under, they check.

any help would go a long way....thanks

If you plan to travel, I wouldn't risk it. I drove from the midwest to Pamona for an IDRC race, and almost got DQ'd because my submarine belt didn't connect to the main latch at the proper angle. The cage is the real pain, if you plan on being competitive, and running over 135 mph, or in the 9's (typically you'll hit 135 before 9's) expect to need the 8-point.

Jason.

 

[BLK-SP64]

Thanks J,


There are many things about Hi performance singles that people don't talk about on Supraforums...

.....You wanna go single-get a turbo
...but you need fuel to along with it
...ok got fuel.....now you need cams and intake to take advantage of the turbo
....got that....don't worry about the 1200 rpm idle
oh ohoho....say bye bye to that clutch/auto tranny
got a new one....good
????why am I bouncing of ths stock rev limiter??
I need a what?? ---a programable ecu to raise the rev limiter and tailor the fuel curve.

------FINALLY WE"RE DONE!!!!! lets go to the track and see what it'll do........


WOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH .....Slow down buddy....

you need a drag slick to handle all that power!!
with ET drags you 'll definately be into the 10' s
BUT ........You'll never know....because...
YOU NEED A Cage!! 5pt er for 10's and under 135mph...
??whats that?? You've got a a T88 with NOS?? and you'll trap over 150mph....sorry buddy need a parachute(sfi approved)
Also add some SFI approved helmet, gloves, pants, jacket...
ready??

WAIT!!!!

Don't forget that 5pt seat belt, and a proper seat to put it in...







ALL I wanted was to go fast............and people say boats cost loads of money....ya right!!

 

[Jason S.]

Exactly! Making the power is the cheap part, making it legal.... well that's not only a pain in the ass, but it's expensive, and forget the stock appearance of the car.

Did this with my RX7, not going that route with the Supra. I'll drag the RX7, and make the Supra fast, and go to the track for 1 pass at a time telling them oh it should hit low 13's. Sorry, I had no clue it would be this fast. Guess I'll head on home.

Jason.

 

[forcefeed]

Jason-

What do you have done to your RX-7? You mentioned it made 680RWHP, thats crazy!!! What kind of times do you pull in it? Any info would be appreciated.

-Amir

 

[Jason S.]

It has run a best of 9.56 @147 mph in testing. Just this year I put a legal cage, and had the chassis certified for single digit quarters, and pulled 200lbs out of the car (it still has a full interior except only 1 seat). Basically I build my own engines, it has a large single turbo, nitrous, fuel cell, fuel lines, pump, rails, regulator, injectors, and one of my computers controlling everything. Unfortunately I don't have the time to play with it that I use to, so I'm not sure when it will see the track again, I am hoping for the 2002 season opener in So. Cal.

Jason.

 

[DaveH]

BLK-SP64, getting the car legal isn't really all that expensive... it's best to do it right and then you won't have to worry about getting booted at the track. S&W Racecars makes a 8-point rollbar kit for a little over $200. I had a local shop install and paint it for $300. Once you have the bar in, it's easy to get the 5-point installed. For the anti-submarine strap, I just built a bracket that went between the front seat bolts. The 5-point harness is only $60 from places like Racerwholesale.com. You only need the single layer fire jacket as long as you don't run in the 9's, and the jacket is only $50

 

[Jason S.]

$300.00 for an 8-point cage? I have a really hard time believing that that cage is any where close to being legal. There are some pretty serious criteria for cages. Wall thickness, angle of bars, weld types, 6x6 1/4 " plates at each mounting point, etc... If you got an NHRA legal cage for $300.00 YOU STOLE THE THING! My cage is chromoly, and would be around $3500.00 normally. And this doesn't include driveshaft loop, axle loops, Scatter shield, harness, seat, helmet, gloves, suite, and kill switch. I probably have close to $8k in safety equipment in my RX7.

Good luck!

Jason.

 

[DaveH]

To clear up any confusion, it's a 8-point rollbar, not a full cage. It's a little over $200 for the 8-point kit (mild steel), and $300 for install and paint (so $500 total). The rollbar tubing/plates are nhra thicknesses, so it is just up to the installer to make sure it is installed per the rules. I only run 10 sec quarter miles, there it quite a bit more equip needed to run 9's (like you).

 

[Jason S.]

Even at $500.00 it's a good deal for a 10 sec. legal cage. Just keep in mind if you run over 135mph (which doesn't look to far away) they will require you to pass all the regulations for single digit quarters.

Jason.

 

[Keith Ta]

It takes a lot of time. And some times you just can't stop. There is never enough. You have to be safe.

 

[DaveH]

Yeah, I'm a little bit worried abou that.... I think the bar needs to be unpainted when they certify it right? Anyway, this is what I got for $500. http://www.speedtoys.com/~daveh/93na-t/hatch2.JPG

Even at $500.00 it's a good deal for a 10 sec. legal cage. Just keep in mind if you run over 135mph (which doesn't look to far away) they will require you to pass all the regulations for single digit quarters.
Jason.

 

[Jason S.]

From what I can see in the picture, the angles I can see look right. You don't have to strip the paint to have it certified, they will check the wall thickness, then tag it. You only need to certify the cage under 10.0 (or 9.99 or quicker), or over 135 mph. Still looks like you got a good deal.

Jason.

 

[BLKMGK]

Ummmm

Guys, safety equipment is VERY important. Ask any racer who's been in an accident about it. Friend of mine runs pretty quick and had borrowed a friend's car for some racing. 2runs after he returned the car to his friend a slick blew and put it into the wall - it caught fire. No onboard extinguisher, thankfully the guy got out okay. Scary thing? My friend normally wears a single layer jacket, his friend was wearing a 3layer. The 3layer is what kept him from being burned badly, a single layer wouldn't have done the job.

Don't skimp on this stuff guys. If you're going that fast you never know when fate will step in. Heh, at 135mph trap speeds I'd be tempted to have a parachute just in case even though it's not "required" until 150mph. We've had at least one guy here lose his brakes and trash his car pretty good on the big end. Some tracks are lenient, that's true, but even if you can get past them you should still have the equipment. Lot's of those rules were written through trial and error - other people's errors that cost some of them dearly.

I've got a full cage in my project\street car including 4 soon to be 5point harnesses. My reasoning was that the older car had NO side impact protection and that the much bigger engine would twist the chassis if I didn't take steps to strengthen it. It's not my driving that I was really concerned about but everyone else's. Everyone I know says they don't plan on having an accident, I just laugh since no one I know who's been in one actually planned it....

Oh yeah, if you do put in a cage and still drive it on the street use the harnesses. Nothing worse than bouncing around in there like a ping pong in a blender in the event of an accident. Dying sitting on your harness would truly suck! SFI padding on the bars is a REAL good idea - and cheap too

 

[Supra Turbo]

Safety is the best investment you can make in your car if you plan to race it, anywhere... how can you put any dollar amount on your health, your mobility or any downtime from work due to a racing injury? Be a professional, get a cage and ALL the proper safety gear. Don't skimp on anything. Get the best suit you can that still allows you the mobility you need. The really heavy duty suits are tough to move around in. Also, the NHRA will not certify a cage if it has been painted. They have to make sure the welds are done right and the tubing seamless. Chromoly also has a tendancy to fracture upon violent impacts, I recommend mild steel over moly. Next time you are at a track and see a tube frame car wipe out, go check out the chassis and you'll see what I mean.

Supra Turbo
"Building a REALLY fast Supra"
NHRA Licenced Super Gas Driver/Frank Hawley graduate

 

[BLKMGK]

Welds

I'd not heard about cro-moly fracturing - ouch! Another point about the welds though - don't grind them. Some people will grind the welds "smooth" to have a better looking cage, doing this will get the cage invalidated as the inspector will not have been able to properly judge the weld. TIG makes some really nice welds if the welder knows their stuff Cage and cell in my car cost me a grand and that was the "buddy" discount from a professional. Make sure someone experienced does the work, in an accident that experience could save your life and is worth the added cost.

Safety equipment costs money, no doubt. Blowshields (you've got one right?) are dated, flywheels are SFI rated, seatbelts are dated\replaced regularly, and on and on. Seatbelts for $60 were mentioned earlier, you sure that's the kind of thing you want to shop on price for? I spent extra on mine to get the quick release buckles, I think I paid $90 apiece not counting the 5th point. That added $60 for the pair is peanuts if it keeps me or my PASSENGER safe in an accident.

Yes, my passengers are required to wear the belts too. Any grief I might get is quickly silenced when I point out how bouncing off the padded bar might feel. 3point OEM belts just aren't good enough when you're surrounded by steel pipes IMO. Besides, showing the women how to buckle up and adjust the straps is kind of fun if you do it right

This sounds preachy and I guess it is. However if it keeps just one person out of a wheelchair or pine box it's worth it. If you've ever been in a bad accident just once you'll understand what I mean. I've only been in one that could've been bad but I distincly recall the OEM belt holding me back just inches from going through the windshield and I had flashbacks for weeks afterwards. That accident was through no fault of my own and it wasn't a racing situaiton. Even on the track the guy next to you can get stupid and around here people have actually been known to drink before climbing into their car (sigh).