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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted to double-check to make sure my timing settings are reasonable for 0-18 psi. I noticed that some people have their timing set as low as 17 degrees down to 8 psi or so. That shouldn't be necessary should it?? This is how I have my timing set right now, roughly:

18 psi = 17 degrees
16 psi = 18 degrees
14 psi = 20 degrees
12 psi = 20 degrees
8 psi = 22 degrees
4 psi = 32 degrees
0 psi = 37 degrees

Think my settings are too aggressive? I'm running an sp67 .7 p-trim right now.

-Paul
 
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Discussion Starter #2
What gas u running paul?

I run about half that on 91 octane.
 

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I'm running: (I had to swap my load units to figure it out for PSI)

37 @ 0 Psi Flat
26.6 @ 5.5 Flat
20.3 @ 9.9 Flat

Then it curves like a "U" @ 14.3 PSI, 16.4 @ torque peak, 17.1up top

" " @ 18.7 PSi , 15.7 midrange --->16--->16.4 @ 8~8.5K

This is on Sunoco 94. Your ignition map seems pretty close to mine. I'm running pretty high timing for part throttle (upper 40's), per Blkmgk's map circa 2 months ago. From 260 KPA on up I'm running ridiculously low timing, as I'm on pump 99% of the time. Better safe then sorry.

Ryan
 
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Damn, that low? Well, 93 octane is the lowest I ever use, 94 a lot of the time. Maybe I'll turn the timing back a tad to be extra safe. I've monitored knock and it seems as though I can turn my timing up pretty high before there is any increase in noise. I had it up to at least 20 degrees, even at peak torque at 18psi. No problems at all. But maybe I was just lucky. I generally run no more than 18 degrees; I figured that was safe, but maybe it's borderline. Thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Paul,

What does you knock raw voltage look like? Can you post your log data? Are you using internal log? Internal log makes the pc logging look like kindergartener drawing ;)
 
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Discussion Starter #7
The internal logger is that much better? Damn, I wish I had known; I've been using my slow pc to log everything, oops. That's probably why it seems to miss data once in awhile. I'll go make some pulls right now and post the internal log data..
 

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The Forbidden Supra said:
The internal logger is that much better? Damn, I wish I had known; I've been using my slow pc to log everything, oops. That's probably why it seems to miss data once in awhile. I'll go make some pulls right now and post the internal log data..
Yea I would be willing to be that you'll see at least some form of knock using the added resolution/speed of internal logging...18deg at peak tq seems a bit much for 18psi and pump to me...Im running about 14 in that area to be safe...

Andrew
 

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I wish I could be as good as you guys with the AEM...seems so easy! I understand pretty much everything what you're saying, I just don't know how to apply it on the AEM program itself!! :D

-Olivier
 
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Ok, I just did a pull in 3rd and 4th (wasn't able to rev real high b/c there was too much traffic).

The knock data actually looks a bit higher in 4th now! Before it always looked like there was more noise in the lower gears, but maybe that's because I wasn't using internal logging before and was missing a lot of the data. Now the data is pretty smooth and consistant... much better. Anywhere, I turned my timing down 5 degrees across the board to help ensure there was no knock, although I didn't put in any race fuel this time. What do you think? This was at only 13 degrees or so at peak torque.

http://www.paul-mendelson.com/images/3rdlow.jpg
http://www.paul-mendelson.com/images/4thlow.jpg

I'll try some pulls later with the timing at 18 degrees peak and see how it compares. This is on 93 octane gas and 11.8:1 a/f with an sp67 .7 ptrim
 

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The Forbidden Supra said:
Ok, I just did a pull in 3rd and 4th (wasn't able to rev real high b/c there was too much traffic).

The knock data actually looks a bit higher in 4th now! Before it always looked like there was more noise in the lower gears, but maybe that's because I wasn't using internal logging before and was missing a lot of the data. Now the data is pretty smooth and consistant... much better. Anywhere, I turned my timing down 5 degrees across the board to help ensure there was no knock, although I didn't put in any race fuel this time. What do you think? This was at only 13 degrees or so at peak torque.

http://www.paul-mendelson.com/images/3rdlow.jpg
http://www.paul-mendelson.com/images/4thlow.jpg

I'll try some pulls later with the timing at 18 degrees peak and see how it compares. This is on 93 octane gas and 11.8:1 a/f with an sp67 .7 ptrim

Are the graphs of map load vs knock raw #1 and #2? I would think you would be alright at 13deg timing unless you got yourself a really bad tank of gas (which has happened to me at one point i had to revert to 11deg to keep from knocking!!) Try to make some pulls with this same timing with some race fuel in the take to separate engine noise from true "knock"....

Andrew
 

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bad94sup said:
Try to make some pulls with this same timing with some race fuel in the take to separate engine noise from true "knock"....

Andrew
That's pretty much the best advice anyone can give you. Don't try to build a good knock noise table on pump. There are too many variables. Drain your tank, throw about 3-4 gallons of C16 in and let her rip. Make sure you do some pulls down in the lower gears as well as the higher gears. This will allow you to get a good idea what your engine noise is. There is no magical universal setting and trying to use the same knock table from car to car is not going to work correctly. Depending on individual setups, different engines make different noises at different RPMS. Don't run your timing stupidly low on race gas. Your settings above seem fine. You may as well enjoy the gas while you got it, work on your higher boost timing map. Preferably at a track as you will get to the point of diminishing returns with timing and need a way to know when you are there. You only want to advance it as far out as it takes to peak out power. A dyno would be even a better idea but...
I would also recommend saving any high boost timing to a "race map' that you can DL at the track. It only takes a minute to upload. This way you can kill your timing and add extra fuel above say 20 PSI in the event you blow off a WG hose, the boost solenoid quits working, you jack up WG duty cycle, you check boost WG invert by mistake, you jack up the Boost Target Comp table, ETC, ETC. You get the point, there are a lot of ways to run high boostby mistake on pump if something goes screwy. This is a big advantage I think we have over the alphabet soup crowd. Go read up at the top of the Drag forum, an EMS could have potentially saved him an engine.

Ryan
 

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Olivier Caza said:
I wish I could be as good as you guys with the AEM...seems so easy! I understand pretty much everything what you're saying, I just don't know how to apply it on the AEM program itself!! :D

-Olivier
Olivier -
Don't give up! Just save your map, make some small changes, and then log and see what happens. The back arrow can be your friend! :D I can't tell you the number of times I accidentally plugged some crazy ass number in a table and scrambled with the mouse for it. Just make sure you log (internally) as often as you can and see what makes the best power. Seat of the pants will only get you so far, as I said above, but it will get you in the ballpark. You'll find that most of us who have experiemented have come with in 3~4 degrees of each other in timing, depending on gas quality, ETC. The laptop has pretty much become a permanent fixture in my car.


Ryan
 

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Ryan23 said:
Olivier -
Don't give up! Just save your map, make some small changes, and then log and see what happens. The back arrow can be your friend! :D I can't tell you the number of times I accidentally plugged some crazy ass number in a table and scrambled with the mouse for it. Just make sure you log (internally) as often as you can and see what makes the best power. Seat of the pants will only get you so far, as I said above, but it will get you in the ballpark. You'll find that most of us who have experiemented have come with in 3~4 degrees of each other in timing, depending on gas quality, ETC. The laptop has pretty much become a permanent fixture in my car.


Ryan
Ryan,
thanks for the advice. You have a long PM!! :D

-Olivier
 
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