Big shot will kill the twins
Instead of going single, why not spray it..BIG??
I have begun researching a nitrous set-up to go along with my stock twins. Currently, I'm running [email protected], and will use a small 50-75 shot to help things along. I had intended on going single next year.
If the stock Supra bottom end can hold big boost and make big HP numbers, why not just use a big shot of nitrous instead of going single? My line of thought is if I already have a nitrous kit, why not just buy a larger jet and use the money I would have spent on a single kit and use that for a fuel system?
Please bear in mind I LOVE my twins on the street, and the car is used as a daily and GT car. I only go to the track for events or goofing off. I do not race on the streets, so a single kit on the street might not be used to its potential..know what I mean?
What is the largest shot you could use on a Supra with the stock twins + aftermarket fuel and EMS? I'm just wondering if this is a feasible option instead of going with a single.
Thanks for all replies...
If the stock Supra bottom end can hold big boost and make big HP numbers, why not just use a big shot of nitrous instead of going single? My line of thought is if I already have a nitrous kit, why not just buy a larger jet and use the money I would have spent on a single kit and use that for a fuel system?
Please bear in mind I LOVE my twins on the street, and the car is used as a daily and GT car. I only go to the track for events or goofing off. I do not race on the streets, so a single kit on the street might not be used to its potential..know what I mean?
What is the largest shot you could use on a Supra with the stock twins + aftermarket fuel and EMS? I'm just wondering if this is a feasible option instead of going with a single.
Thanks for all replies...
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all you will do is max out the twins overspin them and just be producing overheated super hot air that is way out of their effciency range...dont waste your time and just get a single, be way more efficient, and if you want fast spool, just a dbb 61, or 63 or 67 trim depending on what your hp goals are on pump gas and if you want max hp on pump, just install a water/meth kit on.I have begun researching a nitrous set-up to go along with my stock twins. Currently, I'm running [email protected], and will use a small 50-75 shot to help things along. I had intended on going single next year.
If the stock Supra bottom end can hold big boost and make big HP numbers, why not just use a big shot of nitrous instead of going single? My line of thought is if I already have a nitrous kit, why not just buy a larger jet and use the money I would have spent on a single kit and use that for a fuel system?
Please bear in mind I LOVE my twins on the street, and the car is used as a daily and GT car. I only go to the track for events or goofing off. I do not race on the streets, so a single kit on the street might not be used to its potential..know what I mean?
What is the largest shot you could use on a Supra with the stock twins + aftermarket fuel and EMS? I'm just wondering if this is a feasible option instead of going with a single.
Thanks for all replies...
In my opinion, the tiny turbine housings and the restrictive exhaust manifold of the stock twin turbos limits the effectiveness of a large amount of nitrous.
The backpressure issues are substantial. A lot of wear & tear on the engine without the gains you'd see spraying a setup that flows better.
The backpressure issues are substantial. A lot of wear & tear on the engine without the gains you'd see spraying a setup that flows better.
So is a 75 shot the maximum shot that will work with the twins??
even if backpressure weren't an issue:
you can fill up with 18 gallons of C16 whereas with a big nitrous shot, you're going to get 3-6 pulls per bottle depending on the shot.
you can fill up with 18 gallons of C16 whereas with a big nitrous shot, you're going to get 3-6 pulls per bottle depending on the shot.
Yea..well...where I live, C16 is $18 a gallon....
its all the efficiency range of your turbo's,like someone else mentioned the back pressure...you cant get all that extra heat out when you try and crank the boost up and max the turbo's out, all you are doing is generating excessive heat. C16 on stock twins is like pointless, its a limited amount of time for use because unless you want to run around on leaded expensive race gas daily and I don't think you do, and you are at the point when you max the twins out, you arent gaining any whp per pound of boost at the boost levels C16 is meant to handle on the baby twins...sounds to me like you are trying to be cheap and look for ways to not spend the money on your supra and do the things that are necessary, instead looking for a bandaide for your power wants. Just buy the single and be done with it.
i ran my jdm 2j @ 26 psi and a 200 shot. I never broke a turbo and always ran c16. im not here to debate on how you cant do that, because i did it
I'm sitting here scratching my head at these replies. What does the efficiency range of the turbos have to do with nitrous going in the motor? He's running the same boost so the efficiency range hasn't changed for them.
Imagine too much air (nitrous increases the efficiency of "normal" air) coming into the engine and all that air/exhaust has to go somewhere out of the engine, putting very high pressure on the turbo(s).I'm sitting here scratching my head at these replies. What does the efficiency range of the turbos have to do with nitrous going in the motor? He's running the same boost so the efficiency range hasn't changed for them.
1. The amount of nitrous in a 200 shot isn't a lot so there isn't much extra "air" coming out of the engine.Imagine too much air (nitrous increases the efficiency of "normal" air) coming into the engine and all that air/exhaust has to go somewhere out of the engine, putting very high pressure on the turbo(s).
2. Isn't that was a wastegate (although admittedly they're probably undersized) is for?
3. Nitrous cools the intake charge so you could run more a little boost before running out of efficiency.
I know for a fact the Zex CRX that ran NDRA back in the day was running a fairly small turbo (60-1) with a 250 shot and ran 10.3. Considering the car made about 375-400whp on boost, the nitrous was obviously playing some roll in that ET.
I've never done it but I always find it funny how scared/misinformed the import scene is about nitrous.
Nitrous creates more HP, the extra HP increases the exhaust flow, which spins the turbos faster than they should b/c the small wastegate can't keep up.1. The amount of nitrous in a 200 shot isn't a lot so there isn't much extra "air" coming out of the engine.
2. Isn't that was a wastegate (although admittedly they're probably undersized) is for?
3. Nitrous cools the intake charge so you could run more a little boost before running out of efficiency.
I know for a fact the Zex CRX that ran NDRA back in the day was running a fairly small turbo (60-1) with a 250 shot and ran 10.3. Considering the car made about 375-400whp on boost, the nitrous was obviously playing some roll in that ET.
I've never done it but I always find it funny how scared/misinformed the import scene is about nitrous.
If you can put a larger wastegate on the stock twins, then you wont overspin them anymore, but the small exhaust housings will choke down the HP, and you wont get the most out of the 200 shot.
Side note: a 60-1 is not a "small" turbo for a 4 cyl engine, I had one on my old Talon and didnt spool-up until 5000 RPM.
Al
I think N20 on stock twins is an awesome idea. If I were to do another Supra it would be built auto/low miles/spray... aka a track monster. But as said its all what you want to do.
.. For 4 cyl yeah sure. But it's on of the smallest turbos people go with for SuprasSide note: a 60-1 is not a "small" turbo for a 4 cyl engine, I had one on my old Talon and didnt spool-up until 5000 RPM.
There are many stock twin cars on boost only making 460+ HP. I went 124.8 at 3630# race weight, whatever that equates to. That + 200 shot= HP at least in the mid 600's. Nitrous V8's making that power usually have at a minimum 1 3/4 primary headers, the stock turbo manifold's ports are smaller, plus, you're doing it with 2 less cylinders, so each cylinder is making more HP, pumping more air, etc. Nitrous is bringing its own atmosphere, that is why many nitrous cams have lift and duration favoring the exhaust side. I think with a 200 shot, you'd get extremely diminished results compared to spraying that kind of shot on a car with a header and a single. The 4 cylinder civic in the example cited, I'm sure it had a free flowing header and an external wastegate. Plus as someone pointed out, a 60-1 is somewhat big on a 4 cyl and I'm sure the Civic weighed at least a few pounds less than a Supra too.
Holy shit! Did you ever make a full pass. on twins & spray?
HP doesn't create exhaust flow, the air going through the engine does. A car on a shitty tune making 400hp that is retuned and makes 550 doesn't have any more exhaust flow, the volume going in will equal the volume coming out no matter what. The only change in volume will be the amount of nitrous/fuel introduced which will not be that much. I don't have experience with stock turbo wastegates though so i have no idea if they'd be unable to keep up.Nitrous creates more HP, the extra HP increases the exhaust flow, which spins the turbos faster than they should b/c the small wastegate can't keep up.
Of course you won't get "the most" out of it but very rarely are people getting the most out of any setup on a budget.If you can put a larger wastegate on the stock twins, then you wont overspin them anymore, but the small exhaust housings will choke down the HP, and you wont get the most out of the 200 shot.
In a class that is full of cars with gt42r's that's a small turbo. It did of course have a good manifold and a 46mm wastegate though.Side note: a 60-1 is not a "small" turbo for a 4 cyl engine, I had one on my old Talon and didnt spool-up until 5000 RPM.
Al
yep 10.6 @128Holy shit! Did you ever make a full pass. on twins & spray?
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