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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a long discussion with a fellow Supra member in person.

One observation was made about a part of the Supra community and that it's not the same as it used to be a couple of years ago when it came to proper upgrades and techniques. Today there is more talk about Ebay parts, cheap unreliable upgrades, cost cutting, cheaping out on the biggest upgrades, etc.

A few years ago, one would get reamed on SF for even mentioning about running ebay parts on a Supra. Now, it's seems to be widely accepted. Not trying to sound like a dick, but obviously someone will think so, but there is a break in the community where you have member who spent money on quality parts, builds, avoid shortcuts, etc to those who skimp out and go ebay or severe 2nd hand (without repair) parts and upgrades.

It seems that a large portion of the community is heading that way now. Taking nice MKIV Supras and putting el cheapo parts on them either ruining the car or bastardizing the car. This is where I sense part of the Supra community is heading down the same path as the Honda Civic community where quality and reliability and how things are done right are being over looked to save a buck or two.


Anyone else feel or see this or is it just me?
 

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Not sure if it's sign of the economy, but I have commented before about people putting on crappy parts on their cars. What you pay for is what you get.
 

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i am against using Ebay parts (i think an intercooler core is fine though). the economy can definitely be a factor but people have been using Ebay before the economy really dropped. I think more than anything, people opt for Ebay parts because the other alternatives are unnecessarily pricey. 1800 for an exhaust manifold? that is highway robbery. the prices should be established so that both parties benefit. what i'm saying is that prices can be lowered so that buyers purchase a quality part while suppliers make a decent profit. in general, right now in the Supra community, prices are unjustifiably skewed toward the supplier.

i am all for using quality parts, but i can understand the movement for cheaper goods.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i am against using Ebay parts (i think an intercooler core is fine though). the economy can definitely be a factor but people have been using Ebay before the economy really dropped. I think more than anything, people opt for Ebay parts because the other alternatives are unnecessarily pricey. 1800 for an exhaust manifold? that is highway robbery. the prices should be established so that both parties benefit. what i'm saying is that prices can be lowered so that buyers purchase a quality part while suppliers make a decent profit. in general, right now in the Supra community, prices are unjustifiably skewed toward the supplier.

i am all for using quality parts, but i can understand the movement for cheaper goods.
I don't think $1800.00 is that bad compared to something like the original $2300 HKS Turbo manifold.

You do get what you pay for. It's the same with other cars as well. I bet you think $1800 is a bit much for some 304 Stainless Steel headers for a C6 Z06 as well.

The Supra isn't a Honda, so why budget like a Honda? Why spend all that money to get in a 13yo car that still pulls over $23K book value and put $200 parts on it that are critical to the engine? Suppliers for these markets don't have a huge audience. How many Turbo Supras out there on the streets? These guys will never see these items shipping in volume! So they have to make up the cost of these units somehow. Only large volumes and manufacturing truly lowers costs in which again won't happen with Supra specific parts. These suppliers are lucky to see shipping of 1000 units a year in which in the manufacturing world is such a low volume. That's means cost of manufacturing is up.
 

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I don't think $1800.00 is that bad compared to something like the original $2300 HKS Turbo manifold.

You do get what you pay for. It's the same with other cars as well. I bet you think $1800 is a bit much for some 304 Stainless Steel headers for a C6 Z06 as well.

The Supra isn't a Honda, so why budget like a Honda? Why spend all that money to get in a 13yo car that still pulls over $23K book value and put $200 parts on it that are critical to the engine? Suppliers for these markets don't have a huge audience. How many Turbo Supras out there on the streets? These guys will never see these items shipping in volume! So they have to make up the cost of these units somehow. Only large volumes and manufacturing truly lowers costs in which again won't happen with Supra specific parts. These suppliers are lucky to see shipping of 1000 units a year in which in the manufacturing world is such a low volume. That's means cost of manufacturing is up.
The economy is totally different now. In actuality, $1800 now is probably more expensive than $2300 was then. Considering that the $2300 HKS manifold is now being offered at MVP for $1800, I would say you are paying the same price. Economics is about buying power. The buying power is about equal $1800 = $2300.

Plus, people started to realize they are overpaying for a lot of this stuff. Just like any industry, supply and demand rule. There are not a lot of Supras, and with the market of Supra owners (originally wealthy individuals typically employed in IT), suppliers knew they could charge more for a manifold for a Supra than a typical Honda (market for less wealthy teenagers).

More and more younger members of society can purchase used Supras versus WRXs or 350Zs and hence you find them looking for cheaper parts. That in combination with the internet and there you have it.

Joe
 

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The economy is totally different now. In actuality, $1800 now is probably more expensive than $2300 was then. Considering that the $2300 HKS manifold is now being offered at MVP for $1800, I would say you are paying the same price. Economics is about buying power. The buying power is about equal $1800 = $2300.

Plus, people started to realize they are overpaying for a lot of this stuff. Just like any industry, supply and demand rule. There are not a lot of Supras, and with the market of Supra owners (originally wealthy individuals typically employed in IT), suppliers knew they could charge more for a manifold for a Supra than a typical Honda (market for less wealthy teenagers).

More and more younger members of society can purchase used Supras versus WRXs or 350Zs and hence you find them looking for cheaper parts. That in combination with the internet and there you have it.

Joe
i second this, its all about economics
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The economy is totally different now. In actuality, $1800 now is probably more expensive than $2300 was then. Considering that the $2300 HKS manifold is now being offered at MVP for $1800, I would say you are paying the same price. Economics is about buying power. The buying power is about equal $1800 = $2300.

Plus, people started to realize they are overpaying for a lot of this stuff. Just like any industry, supply and demand rule. There are not a lot of Supras, and with the market of Supra owners (originally wealthy individuals typically employed in IT), suppliers knew they could charge more for a manifold for a Supra than a typical Honda (market for less wealthy teenagers).

More and more younger members of society can purchase used Supras versus WRXs or 350Zs and hence you find them looking for cheaper parts. That in combination with the internet and there you have it.

Joe

I agree with your point of supply and demand rule but cost of producing a product and trying to sell it for a profit is greater. No one will produce something to sell it for less than what the cost to make the item.

When you compare the Honda numbers.....there are probably more than 50x more Hondas on the roads than Supras. Apply that to manufacturing terms with volumes, then you have a chance to greatly reduce your manufacturing cost.

There is a turning point in manufacturing in which the price per unit is cheaper in the higher volumes than in lower volumes. Where the cost to produce a unit maybe $1000 per unit for volumes less than 500 and then gets reduces to less than $500 per unit when manufacturing in volumes greater than 10K units.

You will never see that cost reduction in manufacturing for Supra specific parts.
 

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I agree with your point of supply and demand rule but cost of producing a product and trying to sell it for a profit is greater. No one will produce something to sell it for less than what the cost to make the item.

When you compare the Honda numbers.....there are probably more than 50x more Hondas on the roads than Supras. Apply that to manufacturing terms with volumes, then you have a chance to greatly reduce your manufacturing cost.

There is a turning point in manufacturing in which the price per unit is cheaper in the higher volumes than in lower volumes. Where the cost to produce a unit maybe $1000 per unit for volumes less than 500 and then gets reduces to less than $500 per unit when manufacturing in volumes greater than 10K units.

You will never see that cost reduction in manufacturing for Supra specific parts.
How much does it cost to produce an a jig for a part for a Honda? How about for a Vette? And a Cobra? Finally a Supra?

The reason you won't see a decrease in price is because of the MARKET. The Supra market is different than the afore-metioned markets. I remember one manufacturing website, which will remain nameless, that was offering 8 pistons for a Cobra and the price was several hundred dollars less than the price for 6 Supra pistons. Why? Is the Supra piston that much more superior? No. The market is different. It's not about the cost of production. I'm sure some shop owners of whatever will get on here and disagree with me and that's fine. But it really is Economics 101. The cost to make a jig for an exhaust for a Honda is the same cost to make a jig for an exhaust on a Supra. Hell the Greddy Ti-C exhaust for the Honda is $495, the price for the Greddy Ti-C exhaust for a Supra was like either $800 or $1000. I can't recall at the moment. That's a huge difference for a freakin pipe. Two different markets. Kids who can buy Supras can pay more for other things. That's the mentality. Hell, it's in every market. Boating, phones, homes, furniture, alcohol, whatever. It's market supply and demand.

If you are still in college age, take an economics course and this will all makes sense.
 

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I just don't understand why in the world would you buy a $1800 manifold when I could get a "ebay" manifold, clean the slag out, brace it, jet hot coat it, and it works 100% fine. I now have about $400-$500 ( with coating) in a manifold that does its job and doesn't look bad. I just saved $1300. Why in the world would I NOT do that?

I know a personal friend ( who I'm not going to name) that has a 9 second SC300 with what I just explained. Has been running fine for 3-4 years now.

I know you pay for what you get, but that doesn't mean you can't improve it and make it nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
How much does it cost to produce an a jig for a part for a Honda? How about for a Vette? And a Cobra? Finally a Supra?

The reason you won't see a decrease in price is because of the MARKET. The Supra market is different than the afore-metioned markets. I remember one manufacturing website, which will remain nameless, that was offering 8 pistons for a Cobra and the price was several hundred dollars less than the price for 6 Supra pistons. Why? Is the Supra piston that much more superior? No. The market is different. It's not about the cost of production. I'm sure some shop owners of whatever will get on here and disagree with me and that's fine. But it really is Economics 101. The cost to make a jig for an exhaust for a Honda is the same cost to make a jig for an exhaust on a Supra. Hell the Greddy Ti-C exhaust for the Honda is $495, the price for the Greddy Ti-C exhaust for a Supra was like either $800 or $1000. I can't recall at the moment. That's a huge difference for a freakin pipe. Two different markets. Kids who can buy Supras can pay more for other things. That's the mentality. Hell, it's in every market. Boating, phones, homes, furniture, alcohol, whatever. It's market supply and demand.

If you are still in college age, take an economics course and this will all makes sense.
I am way past college and past your economics phase. Try looking at it from a business point of view with you as the manufacturer....this is what you don't understand.


Go back to your original question about the cost of the jig. A jig that is setup to specifically produce on one product! First, you should know how many you are going to sell. That should help you decide on whether to buy have your own jig or lease one and pay another company to lease.


Let's say you bought a jig and the whole setup costs you something around $50K. How many $500 manifolds do you have to sell before you even break even or have the machine pay for itself? That's about 100 manifolds before you even pay for the jig. Not to mention the material, labor, storage, shipping, inventory, etc. How many manifolds to you think Full Race sells a year for the Supra? Hundreds? I highly doubt that.


You guys are severely forgetting what it costs these suppliers to manufacture and sell these items. Anything that is so car specific which has a low market demand STRICTLY because of of VOLUME NUMBERS is going to be high.


For your piston example, the cost for 2JZ GTE pistons are going to be high compared to an LSX block/piston mainly because there are more LSX block upgrading pistons than there are 2JZ. The demand in volume is higher! The more your sell and manufacture, the cheaper the cost of your goods are...


If you only have 2 jigs and both of them are design to make Honda manifolds because the volumes of Honda manifolds are high.....you aren't going to stop one machine to make only 50 2JZGTE manifolds for the same price as the Hondas when you can make 600 Honda manifolds and sell all 600 manifolds. You would lose money if you did that.


Understand manufacturing costs! I don't know where you guys get the idea that amking quality manifolds is cheap. Have you ever had a custom manifold made? It's a hell of a more expensive than $1500, I tell you that!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I just don't understand why in the world would you buy a $1800 manifold when I could get a "ebay" manifold, clean the slag out, brace it, jet hot coat it, and it works 100% fine. I now have about $400-$500 ( with coating) in a manifold that does its job and doesn't look bad. I just saved $1300. Why in the world would I NOT do that?

I know a personal friend ( who I'm not going to name) that has a 9 second SC300 with what I just explained. Has been running fine for 3-4 years now.

I know you pay for what you get, but that doesn't mean you can't improve it and make it nice.
Honda boy in the making. :lol:
 

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I am way past college and past your economics phase. Try looking at it from a business point of view with you as the manufacturer....this is what you don't understand.


Go back to your original question about the cost of the jig. A jig that is setup to specifically produce on one product! First, you should know how many you are going to sell. That should help you decide on whether to buy have your own jig or lease one and pay another company to lease.


Let's say you bought a jig and the whole setup costs you something around $50K. How many $500 manifolds do you have to sell before you even break even or have the machine pay for itself? That's about 100 manifolds before you even pay for the jig. Not to mention the material, labor, storage, shipping, inventory, etc. How many manifolds to you think Full Race sells a year for the Supra? Hundreds? I highly doubt that.


You guys are severely forgetting what it costs these suppliers to manufacture and sell these items. Anything that is so car specific which has a low market demand STRICTLY because of of VOLUME NUMBERS is going to be high.


For your piston example, the cost for 2JZ GTE pistons are going to be high compared to an LSX block/piston mainly because there are more LSX block upgrading pistons than there are 2JZ. The demand in volume is higher! The more your sell and manufacture, the cheaper the cost of your goods are...


If you only have 2 jigs and both of them are design to make Honda manifolds because the volumes of Honda manifolds are high.....you aren't going to stop one machine to make only 50 2JZGTE manifolds for the same price as the Hondas when you can make 600 Honda manifolds and sell all 600 manifolds. You would lose money if you did that.


Understand manufacturing costs! I don't know where you guys get the idea that amking quality manifolds is cheap. Have you ever had a custom manifold made? It's a hell of a more expensive than $1500, I tell you that!
Are you a fucking idiot? It doesn't cost 50k to make a jig for an exhaust. Shit, Larry at SP made me a custom 4" exhaust for $750. And he made a jig for it too! he ended up selling like two.

Steal is cheap. That addresses cost of materials.

Demand, exactly.

No, the more you produce something, the cost does NOT go down. In fact, it can go up. You NEED to go to Economics 101. Supply and demand curves have to reach an equilbrium.

Last I checked, HKS sold more than 1 of these things. I was talking about exhaust BTW, not manis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Are you a fucking idiot? It doesn't cost 50k to make a jig for an exhaust. Shit, Larry at SP made me a custom 4" exhaust for $750. And he made a jig for it too! he ended up selling like two.

Steal is cheap. That addresses cost of materials.

Demand, exactly.

No, the more you produce something, the cost does NOT go down. In fact, it can go up. You NEED to go to Economics 101. Supply and demand curves have to reach an equilbrium.

Last I checked, HKS sold more than 1 of these things. I was talking about exhaust BTW, not manis.
You sly stupid SOB, sliding the Exhuast product in for the manifold product. I guess Manifolds costs just as much as Exhausts......let's see, let's go back a few posts where the costs of MANIFOLDS was used as an example from the $1800 one to the Ebay ones.


God damn, junior. Stay on topic! :lol:

And you are an idiot when it comes to manufacturing costs vs. volume. The more you produce something in high volume, your manufacturing costs does go down. Why don't you quote and manufacture something yourself in volume. Items bought and manufactured in larger volumes lead to cost reduction.

It's like going to Costco and buy a 50 pack of your favorite TP vs. going to your local grocery store and buying 10 5packs of your favorite TP.


BTW, I am in manufacturing in electronics and other goods.... and quote items based on volumes. Soooo, you want to keep on arguing with me?
 

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You sly stupid SOB, sliding the Exhuast product in for the manifold product. I guess Manifolds costs just as much as Exhausts......let's see, let's go back a few posts where the costs of MANIFOLDS was used as an example from the $1800 one to the Ebay ones.


God damn, junior. Stay on topic! :lol:

And you are an idiot when it comes to manufacturing costs vs. volume. The more you produce something in high volume, your manufacturing costs does go down. Why don't you quote and manufacture something yourself in volume. Items bought and manufactured in larger volumes lead to cost reduction.

It's like going to Costco and buy a 50 pack of your favorite TP vs. going to your local grocery store and buying 10 5packs of your favorite TP.


BTW, I am in manufacturing in electronics and other goods.... and quote items based on volumes. Soooo, you want to keep on arguing with me?
LLCoolJ94 said:
How much does it cost to produce an a jig for a part for a Honda? How about for a Vette? And a Cobra? Finally a Supra?

The reason you won't see a decrease in price is because of the MARKET. The Supra market is different than the afore-metioned markets. I remember one manufacturing website, which will remain nameless, that was offering 8 pistons for a Cobra and the price was several hundred dollars less than the price for 6 Supra pistons. Why? Is the Supra piston that much more superior? No. The market is different. It's not about the cost of production. I'm sure some shop owners of whatever will get on here and disagree with me and that's fine. But it really is Economics 101. The cost to make a jig for an exhaust for a Honda is the same cost to make a jig for an exhaust on a Supra. Hell the Greddy Ti-C exhaust for the Honda is $495, the price for the Greddy Ti-C exhaust for a Supra was like either $800 or $1000. I can't recall at the moment. That's a huge difference for a freakin pipe. Two different markets. Kids who can buy Supras can pay more for other things. That's the mentality. Hell, it's in every market. Boating, phones, homes, furniture, alcohol, whatever. It's market supply and demand.

If you are still in college age, take an economics course and this will all makes sense.
That is what I was talking about. Essentially same exhaust, twice the price.

I already addressed the manifold cost. You're paying the same amount of money today at $1800 as you did several years ago at $2300. So the cost has not gone down.

Supply and demand curve. You are forgetting cost of unsold supply. That's why we have a way of accounting for that in GDP and GNP. Unsold supply is wasted money. Supply and demand curve must reach equilibrium in order to achieve efficiency. Paying less per unit for supply you don't use is the same as paying more per unit for supply you sell at the market.

And yes I'd love to. I hope you're not involved in a big company, otherwise we'll be bailing you out soon.

NINJA EDIT: I personally have never bought a part off of Ebay, but I do understand why people do it. They are getting near equal quality for much cheaper price. If you are involved in manufacturing, then you can appreciate that. All of my APU setup and BPU for that matter has been HKS, Greddy, Blitz, PHR, and SP. My Supra was APU before you were even a member here.

But to answer your question, I feel I already have. You may not like the answer, as I wish people were not buying Ebay stuff, but that is the truth. The truth is also that the quality of these items has gotten better and nearly if not equal to the major brands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That is what I was talking about. Essentially same exhaust, twice the price.

I already addressed the manifold cost. You're paying the same amount of money today at $1800 as you did several years ago at $2300. So the cost has not gone down.

Supply and demand curve. You are forgetting cost of unsold supply. That's why we have a way of accounting for that in GDP and GNP. Unsold supply is wasted money. Supply and demand curve must reach equilibrium in order to achieve efficiency. Paying less per unit for supply you don't use is the same as paying more per unit for supply you sell at the market.

And yes I'd love to. I hope you're not involved in a big company, otherwise we'll be bailing you out soon.

NINJA EDIT: I personally have never bought a part off of Ebay, but I do understand why people do it. They are getting near equal quality for much cheaper price. If you are involved in manufacturing, then you can appreciate that. All of my APU setup and BPU for that matter has been HKS, Greddy, Blitz, PHR, and SP. My Supra was APU before you were even a member here.

But to answer your question, I feel I already have. You may not like the answer, as I wish people were not buying Ebay stuff, but that is the truth. The truth is also that the quality of these items has gotten better and nearly if not equal to the major brands.
Maybe you should have bought your pedals off of ebay. :D


Now, I am just giving you a hard time. Your supply and demand argument is over-simplifying the argument. Manufacturing costs, time, research and making a profit is all part of the whole business game. If FR couldn't sell their manifolds for $2300 then they wouldn't make it. In order for them to make their money or the same money as BL who sells 2x or 3x times more manifolds than FR, they need to keep their prices up.

But if FR could sell 5x more than BL manifolds by reducing their costs of the manifold and still make the same or more revenue, then they would. You have to look at the margins and your profits as a business person. Just because someone wants to pay $500 for an item that costs me $450 to make doesn't mean I have to charge $500 cause the small $50 margin isn't worth my fucking time.
 

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The thing you are forgetting LL is that it doesn't matter that it costs the same to make part "a", and part "b". Companies know they will sell a ton more Honda stuff than the Supra stuff. They will make a ton more initially of that same exhaust. That drives the cost down for them. Why do you think almost everything for our cars has to be special ordered, or has a wait time of 3 months? Because they keep the supply low. That way they know they will at least make some money back on this. The R&D costs are also the same for the two, but you have to price the Supra stuff higher because you won't be making up the initial investment as fast as the Honda stuff.

They don't want to sit on 100 Supra exhausts that will take forever to sell. They'll gladly make 150 Honda exhausts cause there are a ton of freaking Hondas on the road. DP is right in regards to this.

I don't care much what you put on your car, and stuff like exhausts, who really cares. If I felt it was reasonable to spend $2k on a manifold, I would. But I don't. I'd rather buy seats, or paint my car, or get wheels, or cams. Something where I know the money I spent was really worth it. Only way I'll spend that much is if I'm buying a Full-Race manifold or something.

That doesn't mean I'm going to use ebay parts though. Some things available through there are really cheap, and really good. Others are just trash. Most people seem to discern between the two. I don't see very many that just don't give a damn with their Supras though. The only way you can keep those people out is if the price of the car still continues to be unattainable to most dumb kids that do this crap.

BTW I have an eBay manifold. I got it from a good friend. I don't think I'm going to use it now though. I'm looking at just getting a cast manifold though.

Alex
 

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The thing you are forgetting LL is that it doesn't matter that it costs the same to make part "a", and part "b". Companies know they will sell a ton more Honda stuff than the Supra stuff. They will make a ton more initially of that same exhaust. That drives the cost down for them. Why do you think almost everything for our cars has to be special ordered, or has a wait time of 3 months? Because they keep the supply low. That way they know they will at least make some money back on this. The R&D costs are also the same for the two, but you have to price the Supra stuff higher because you won't be making up the initial investment as fast as the Honda stuff.

They don't want to sit on 100 Supra exhausts that will take forever to sell. They'll gladly make 150 Honda exhausts cause there are a ton of freaking Hondas on the road. DP is right in regards to this.

I don't care much what you put on your car, and stuff like exhausts, who really cares. If I felt it was reasonable to spend $2k on a manifold, I would. But I don't. I'd rather buy seats, or paint my car, or get wheels, or cams. Something where I know the money I spent was really worth it. Only way I'll spend that much is if I'm buying a Full-Race manifold or something.

That doesn't mean I'm going to use ebay parts though. Some things available through there are really cheap, and really good. Others are just trash. Most people seem to discern between the two. I don't see very many that just don't give a damn with their Supras though. The only way you can keep those people out is if the price of the car still continues to be unattainable to most dumb kids that do this crap.

BTW I have an eBay manifold. I got it from a good friend. I don't think I'm going to use it now though. I'm looking at just getting a cast manifold though.

Alex
Actually I didn't forget that. That was partly my point with supply and demand. The market. The market for Hondas is greater. Exactly as you said it. But it is also a different economic demographic. Even kids who own Supras typically come from high-middle class and above. The same statement cannot be made for Hondas. Yes, they will sell more Honda exhaust simply because of numbers. You are correct. But they also could not sell said items at a higher price, or they would. If a company could not sell an item at some price, it would come down as the market demands, or the company would stop making it. Just as you implied.

The difference between now, and say when I stalked this forum in 2001 is a demographic. Then, older, and more accomplished men were buying Supras. Now, kids can afford to buy them. However, they are not as established and cannot afford the price. So they buy Ebay parts.
 

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ok, i will throw in my .02

Donkeypunch you are correct that the cost of production will usually go down when volume demand is increased. Now, If a company manufactures their own products the cost of material will likely go down because they are increasing the volume of whatever material they are using.

LL you are also correct. How ever HKS, Greddy or even blitz manufactures their manifolds I can assure you that it isnt costing them more money to produce these parts for a supra. The cost isnt associated to the amount of supras other than the fact that the number of supras is directly related to their value. It isnt costing them more money to have some special line or whatever to make parts for supras just because there are less supras cruising the streets.

ALL of the increased cost associated with supra parts is the market. Now, you can say that HKS has better build quality, material, welds etc... but in no way does it cost HKS twice as much for that qualty on a supra mani than a honda mani. Hell, there are stainless manifolds on ebay for a couple hundred bucks. Do you think these dudes on ebay building these things have 10 times the buying power of HKS? Not even close. Im not saying that these manifolds are as good as HKS or the like but do yo really think HKS has more invested in a supra mani than the lone guy in his garage making them by hand? Again, not even close. With all that being said I LOVE HKS products. The prices on these products and other BIG NAMES do frustrate the hell out of me though.

Sorry for the long post but like i said I too get frustrated over these prices and I just had to vent. In the end you can be sure that Big name products will probably have better quality but the price you pay isnt even close to justfied unless you are just paying for peace of mind. Well, no, not even then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Actually I didn't forget that. That was partly my point with supply and demand. The market. The market for Hondas is greater. Exactly as you said it. But it is also a different economic demographic. Even kids who own Supras typically come from high-middle class and above. The same statement cannot be made for Hondas. Yes, they will sell more Honda exhaust simply because of numbers. You are correct. But they also could not sell said items at a higher price, or they would. If a company could not sell an item at some price, it would come down as the market demands, or the company would stop making it. Just as you implied.

The difference between now, and say when I stalked this forum in 2001 is a demographic. Then, older, and more accomplished men were buying Supras. Now, kids can afford to buy them. However, they are not as established and cannot afford the price. So they buy Ebay parts.
Demographic with Supras should play very little. Look at the raw numbers.

There are a total of less that 7,000 turbo Supras in the U.S. that was sold between the years of 1994 to 1998.

HOw many Honda Civics do you think were sold from 1993 to 2008?


10x, 20x, 50x more?

You do the math.


The direct cost of Supra products is related to the market in which is still only an audience of 7K supra owners regardless of their demographic.
 
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