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vntperformance said:
Kinda off topic, but how many of you folks that ran the ITS DBB Turbos ran the coolant lines, i've heard that running w/o em leads to premature bearing failure?

Correct me if i'm wrong? But isn't this what happened to you Tony (Silver Bullet)?

vnt
Everyone that I was referring to ran water to the center section and still had failures. DBB's require water cooling.
 

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Val, that would be incorrect....:) I did not have the lines on for 2 days ( Waiting for lines and fittings to come from summit) and drove car maybe....30 miles lol And Yes already knew that you have to run coolant lines. ITS will tell you that when you buy the turbo. And they were on ALL 3. That is my point 3 ITS failures in about year in a half . One 74 and (2)76. And PIA water lines.....totally not worth it. Didnt you just buy an ITS????

Back to topic...Tony, yes you read correctly...on my car with vpc/afc/gforce....the 77ho outspooled the ITS74dbb and 76r dbb. And obviously made more power :) And is 1/2 price...if not less....and only costs about 350 for normal freshening up/rebuild. Paul and ray....were blown away when we first put the 77ho on, because of how great it spooled and big power it made. And it lasted me all last year running the piss out of it. As stated these are just my experiences...and others may disagree....but for what i do drag race/street driving they did not last.

As stated this is what happened to me...and i gave up on them...and i can say nothing but great things about the sp77 and precision turbos.

Tony
 

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SO I guess youre happy with the turbo huh Tony? :) :)





Silver Bullet said:
Val, that would be incorrect....:) I did not have the lines on for 2 days ( Waiting for lines and fittings to come from summit) and drove car maybe....30 miles lol And Yes already knew that you have to run coolant lines. ITS will tell you that when you buy the turbo. And they were on ALL 3. That is my point 3 ITS failures in about year in a half . One 74 and (2)76. And PIA water lines.....totally not worth it. Didnt you just buy an ITS????

Back to topic...Tony, yes you read correctly...on my car with vpc/afc/gforce....the 77ho outspooled the ITS74dbb and 76r dbb. And obviously made more power :) And is 1/2 price...if not less....and only costs about 350 for normal freshening up/rebuild. Paul and ray....were blown away when we first put the 77ho on, because of how great it spooled and big power it made. And it lasted me all last year running the piss out of it. As stated these are just my experiences...and others may disagree....but for what i do drag race/street driving they did not last.

As stated this is what happened to me...and i gave up on them...and i can say nothing but great things about the sp77 and precision turbos.

Tony
 

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Silver Bullet said:
Val, that would be incorrect....:) I did not have the lines on for 2 days ( Waiting for lines and fittings to come from summit) and drove car maybe....30 miles lol And Yes already knew that you have to run coolant lines. ITS will tell you that when you buy the turbo. And they were on ALL 3. That is my point 3 ITS failures in about year in a half . One 74 and (2)76. And PIA water lines.....totally not worth it. Didnt you just buy an ITS????

Tony
Actually yes I did, And?

My mistake, for some reason I must have heard wrong....... no pun intended..... ;)

Jim Swantko: Sorry I wasn't referring to you. :)

vnt :)
 

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T-Power
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Back to topic...Tony, yes you read correctly...on my car with vpc/afc/gforce....the 77ho outspooled the ITS74dbb and 76r dbb. And obviously made more power And is 1/2 price...if not less....and only costs about 350 for normal freshening up/rebuild. Paul and ray....were blown away when we first put the 77ho on, because of how great it spooled and big power it made. And it lasted me all last year running the piss out of it. As stated these are just my experiences...and others may disagree....but for what i do drag race/street driving they did not last.
Ok.. this is confusing. I've read somewhere a ITS74DBB spools similar or better than a T04R, and now the 77HO outspools a ITS74DBB!? :eek: so does that mean a 77HO can outspool or spool similar to a T04R, which is a 67mm?

Thanks
 

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Jim Swantko said:
Everyone that I was referring to ran water to the center section and still had failures. DBB's require water cooling.
Thats my scenario. :(
 

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Silver Bullet said:
Val, that would be incorrect....:) I did not have the lines on for 2 days ( Waiting for lines and fittings to come from summit) and drove car maybe....30 miles lol And Yes already knew that you have to run coolant lines. ITS will tell you that when you buy the turbo. And they were on ALL 3. That is my point 3 ITS failures in about year in a half . One 74 and (2)76. And PIA water lines.....totally not worth it. Didnt you just buy an ITS????

Back to topic...Tony, yes you read correctly...on my car with vpc/afc/gforce....the 77ho outspooled the ITS74dbb and 76r dbb. And obviously made more power :) And is 1/2 price...if not less....and only costs about 350 for normal freshening up/rebuild. Paul and ray....were blown away when we first put the 77ho on, because of how great it spooled and big power it made. And it lasted me all last year running the piss out of it. As stated these are just my experiences...and others may disagree....but for what i do drag race/street driving they did not last.

As stated this is what happened to me...and i gave up on them...and i can say nothing but great things about the sp77 and precision turbos.

Tony
Tony,
That SP77HO, is it dBB or standard cartridge? Have you tried the GT42(dBB)?
Tony
 

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KenHenderson said:

DBB turbos require much less oil pressure than thrust bearing turbos and I know some guys were destroying their ITS DBB turbos with thrust bearing-type oil pressures.

Ken.
ive just bought a its gt72dbb, how do i go about restricting the oil pressure?
 
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I run an ITS turbo on my car.

T72q 1.30 AR DBB.

Map:



I had 3k miles on it, and then the bearings failed. Coming back from Rotary Revolution, the turbo burned itself up on some various highway play. Why? I overspun the turbo shaft. Notice the red line through the compressor map. That is my engines airflow line.

What did ITS do? They replaced everything for me for FREE, and also upgraded my turbo to a T76!. ITS was very easy to work with, and had great customer service. After sending them my turbo back for analysis, and seeing that the turbo wasn't matched efficiently, they still was more than happy to help out.

So now I have a T76q DBB installed, yet using the same T72 front housing. Not ideal for airflow, but minimal differences anyhow. Here is the new map, and the proposed airflow based of the RWHP made from the T72:



With the T72, it spooled faster than factory twins on a 13b rotary. The dual ballbearing does make a difference. Hell, I can blow on the blades of the turbo and make it spin!

In the end, I have not redyno'd the T76 turbo yet. That is still to come. ITS has been awesome to work with, and I highly recomend them. Even though I had the turbo fail, they gave a very logical explanation and sent the turbo back to me on next-day-air after upgrading it.
 
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leett said:
ive just bought a its gt72dbb, how do i go about restricting the oil pressure?
Most of the new turbos are internally restricted. Otherwise, get a N20 jet and put it in the oil feed line. I would call ITS to find out what size jet they recomend for your application.
 

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I don't know about ITS but HKS DBB turbos can be run with and without water cooling. Some of the very first 2540s and 2835s HKS released did not even have an accommodation for water cooling. Although most of the HKS twin DBB turbos are water and oil cooled, my GT3240s are oil cooled only and I believe this is the case with the T51-R SPL DBB.

Don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying water cooling is bad, or that it is at the core of the issues discussed in this thread. I am saying, however, that you can go either way with the HKS DBB turbos.

Personally, I think the problem many have had with ball bearing turbos involves oiling, both the oil feed and oil return lines. The orifice for my oil feed line is .80 mm in diameter. That gives you an idea of how small it is and how significantly it reduces oil feed pressure. The other side of the equation is to go as BIG as possible with the oil return line. The oil is no longer under pressure as it returning to the pan, so the higher the volume of oil you can return the better for the turbos and your ability to oil cool the turbos.

When a guy tells me he has had problems with HKS DBB turbos, the first thing I want to see is his oil feed and return lines. Nine times out of ten, this is where the problem lies. If you are running too much oil feed pressure and your oil return line is too small, it's not hard to figure out what the results will be. Since I've never even seen an ITS DBB turbo, I cannot say that the same issues pertain, but it it something to be mindful of.

Ken.
 
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KenHenderson said:
I don't know about ITS but HKS DBB turbos can be run with and without water cooling. Some of the very first 2540s and 2835s HKS released did not even have an accommodation for water cooling. Although most of the HKS twin DBB turbos are water and oil cooled, my GT3240s are oil cooled only and I believe this is the case with the T51-R SPL DBB.

Don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying water cooling is bad, or that it is at the core of the issues discussed in this thread. I am saying, however, that you can go either way with the HKS DBB turbos.

Personally, I think the problem many have had with ball bearing turbos involves oiling, both the oil feed and oil return lines. The orifice for my oil feed line is .80 mm in diameter. That gives you an idea of how small it is and how significantly it reduces oil feed pressure. The other side of the equation is to go as BIG as possible with the oil return line. The oil is no longer under pressure as it returning to the pan, so the higher the volume of oil you can return the better for the turbos and your ability to oil cool the turbos.

When a guy tells me he has had problems with HKS DBB turbos, the first thing I want to see is his oil feed and return lines. Nine times out of ten, this is where the problem lies. If you are running too much oil feed pressure and your oil return line is too small, it's not hard to figure out what the results will be. Since I've never even seen an ITS DBB turbo, I cannot say that the same issues pertain, but it it something to be mindful of.

Ken.
I run an -10 AN return line. I believe the oil feed is an -3 AN line. ITS recommended -10 AN or larger.
 

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GearHeadRD said:
Does anybody have any experience with Turbonetics Ball Bearing Turbos? Thanks in advance!
Check out Silvino's Turbonetics T66 BB dyno under "moreboost.org". Maybe the best street dyno I've seen: at 25.5 lbs, he made 500 whp at only 4500 rpm, and 640whp max (again, at only 25.5 lbs).

Super numbers for a street car. Was it the turbo, or the fact that Silvino had it tuned perfectly? Probably a combination of the two.

Bob G.
 

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Red Rx7,
It sounds like you were treated with respect. I am going to call them soon and have the turbo shipped out to them. I am curious to see how they respond with me.
Tony
 

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For the record...not badmouthing ITS or DBB's so to speak...or say they cannot be good, just posted my experiences with them...and problems i had...and how much it cost me to rebuild. And i know 3-4 others that have had EXACT same problem...and they do not drag race or "beat" their turbos up at track...mainly daily driven cars. And they had 74q and 76r. I am sure some have had good luck with them ...but many have not as well. And considering how much they are compared to a normal cartridge. Its not worth risk on ITS DBB's in my opinion.

And yes you read correctly....the 77HO outspooled my ITS 74Q and 76R DBB turbos.

Blkdawg: maybe this will help you...I had the PHR2+(264 cams) and the SP77HO (272 cams) and teh 77 is only 200 -300 rpm off the 2+. the 77HO is definitely a fast spooling /heavy hitter turbo. And i daily drive my car.

Larry: Yeah i guess you could say i like the turbo. Its Ok :)
 

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To all those that have had their ITS DBB fail, have you ran the oil restrictor? I know that recent dbb turbos have them built in but from what I understand there needs to be an oil restrictor on the feed. I have a 74 dbb and without the restrictor the turbo leaked oil. With it the turbo seems fine.

Silverbullet, its hard to belive that your sp77 outspools the 74 that is amazing. What a/r you running on the 77?
 

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cummins...Yes i had the oil restrictor on all of them on the feed. That way it was spray pattern vs a flooding of oil. And Yep...trust me we could not believe it either when we first put the SP77 on. It outspooled the ITS 76R DBB by a ton...and out spooled the ITS 74 DBB by a little....but made much more power. Its the best turbo i have had..and dont see changing it anytime soon. Since i am only running 30-33 psi and its capable of much more if i ever decide to change setup in any way. PHR 2+ was the 2nd best one i have had...that thing on a 75 shot was insane. ....lol

Tony
 

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Tony, thanks! I'll take 77HO into consideration. Sounds to good to be true... :D
 

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Tony how exactly are you logging the spool to compare? You using data acquisition or SOTP?
 
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