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I just wondered how you could detect when you have knock so you know how far you can push non-stock turbos. Is there a sensor? Can you hear it? What does it sound like?
 

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NO, you definitely can't usually here detonation. The best way is probably to monitor timing advance. When the ECU detects knock, it pulls out the timing.

Since your car is an OBDI, email Chad @ [email protected] about his group buy on a gauge that will show timing advance and one other variable while driving.

I have been told that using a magnifing glass to check for silvers of piston on the spark plug is another way, but much more of a PITA.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
hey can that gauge be modified to work with OBDII ????
 

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No, AFAIK there is no gauge like that which uses VPW OBD2 protocol. If there is I'd like to know about it. OBD2 cars can use any VPW scan tool to datalog timing advance.
 
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pwpanas said:
Fwiw, here's a link to an external knock sensor that I'm using with my Haltech
I use that same one as well. Some modifications:

Knock sensor needs to be turned on a lathe and given 10x1.25mm thread. This will allow you to screw it in on the passenger side of the block with ease. The thread it comes with (1/4 NPT) won't go anywhere.

Take it apart and paint it black. Mount right on top of steering column. The white is ugly inside a Supra interior.
 

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"Philzilla"
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AnArKey said:
Knock sensor needs to be turned on a lathe and given 10x1.25mm thread. This will allow you to screw it in on the passenger side of the block with ease. The thread it comes with (1/4 NPT) won't go anywhere.
I built an adapter to replace the adapter that came with the kit. I bought a nut at a hardware store the proper size so that the knock sensor itself would screw into it. I had that nut welded to the top of a short 10x1.25 bolt.

Where did you mount your knock sensor? I was able to use one of the oem knock sensor locations (driver's side of the engine) because the Haltech doesn't have a knock sensor input. Which location on the passenger side of the block did you use?
 

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Derek: Yeah, where did you mount it on the block, any pics?

That would be great.

AnArKey said:


I use that same one as well. Some modifications:

Knock sensor needs to be turned on a lathe and given 10x1.25mm thread. This will allow you to screw it in on the passenger side of the block with ease. The thread it comes with (1/4 NPT) won't go anywhere.

Take it apart and paint it black. Mount right on top of steering column. The white is ugly inside a Supra interior.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Hboostn97TT said:
Derek: Yeah, where did you mount it on the block, any pics?

That would be great.

About 3/4 toward the rear, 1/2 way up. Pretty easy to find if you have a single. Harder if you still have stock twins. Try looking from underneath if you do.
 

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Okay, thankx. Can you provide feedback as to your experiences? Have you had knocking at times...and what have you learned? Just curious at what boost levels/octane/fuel tuning knock is occurring....or not occurring.

On hot days when in slow traffic...then the hwy opens up...I can hear some knock if I accelerate moderately at 15psi or so. I back out right away. But it's the inaudible knock that I'm wondering about at BPU++ levels at 19psi of boost with tuned fuel...on hot or cold days.

I know you are boosting much higher with the T-78...what's happening at the higher boost levels & with different octane fuels?

And, how do you change the threads again on a lathe? Where should I go and how should I explain what I need done on the sensor?

Thank you!!!

AnArKey said:


About 3/4 toward the rear, 1/2 way up. Pretty easy to find if you have a single. Harder if you still have stock twins. Try looking from underneath if you do.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
For the metal work, call around to some metal working shops. Ask them if they can turn down 1/4 NPT to 10x1.25mm. The material is steel BTW.

Right now I am chasing some problems, as I get knock all the time (boost or no boost) above 4000RPM. I have reset the ECU, disconnected the 02 sensor, and hooked up a wideband 02 to the car. I'm gonna go driving a little later this week and try it all out and see what my air/fuel ratio is doing, and if the knock goes away when I get the A/F ratio where it needs to be.
 

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It would be a good second opinion to have an OBD monitoring tool that displayed the stock knock sensors as well.

Do you have a scan tool attached and have you verified that you have knock with the stock sensors? Just curious.

I am considering a scan tool myself...any ideas? I know of this one www.obdII.com


Oh... what plugs/gap and coolant mixture are you running? I'm going to take Chips advice and flush the cooling system 20/80 toyota red/distilled water...and redline water wetter. Also, a TRD 1.3bar cap. This will help to remove heat from head and stop the bubbles that form from high temps. It will also result in lower under the hood temps.


Good luck with sorting it all out.
 

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"Philzilla"
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Spool said:
And, how do you change the threads again on a lathe? Where should I go and how should I explain what I need done on the sensor?
Again, just get the right size nut welded to the head of the right size bolt, and scrap the adapter that came with the MSD Knock Alert. Finding a shop that can weld a nut to the head of a bolt will be far easier than finding a shop that can do metric threads on a lathe.
 

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Thanks...

What benefits in performance does the Haltech offer? Also, are you experiencing knocking? If so, what boost levels? If not, what tuning have you done to eliminate knock?

Looks like it's strong from your numbers!

Do you have a website with your mods, 1/4 times/ dynos?

Tell us about your turbo kit?


Thanks!



pwpanas said:

I was able to use one of the oem knock sensor locations (driver's side of the engine) because the Haltech doesn't have a knock sensor input. ?
 

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pwpanas said:


Again, just get the right size nut welded to the head of the right size bolt, and scrap the adapter that came with the MSD Knock Alert. Finding a shop that can weld a nut to the head of a bolt will be far easier than finding a shop that can do metric threads on a lathe.
And using the stock knocks sensors by monitoring timing advance would be easier still. I understand you have a Haltech and its a stand-alone, but I'm willing to bet the stock sensors designed for the motor would work better for stock ECU cars.

Besides, if the engine knocks and the ECU retards timing, it won't knock anymore. Your knock sensor won't read anything, but you will have still lost power.

IMO, the best OBDII datalogger is www.pocketlogger.com Its designed for DSMs, and logs everything a laptop version can. I've seen people mount their Palms for easy reading while racing. although once tuned you shouldn't have to look at it. Only problem is its not available for our car's interface, VPW. They said they were thinking about it. So email them and bug them till they make one :)
 

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I looked at this tool and like it. I guess HKS makes another logger/display unit and so does Techtom...available today. I also emailed obdii.com and they also have a unit with windows software, can plug the laptop right into the port.

True about the knock & timing...but I thought Derek is still getting knock...even after the the stock ECU should be taking it out?

Derek: Can you confirm this or what's happening when you get kock on your car?? Are you monitoring the with OBD tool??

Let us know!


Grant said:


IMO, the best OBDII datalogger is www.pocketlogger.com Its designed for DSMs, and logs everything a laptop version can. I've seen people mount their Palms for easy reading while racing. although once tuned you shouldn't have to look at it. Only problem is its not available for our car's interface, VPW. They said they were thinking about it. So email them and bug them till they make one :)
 

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HKS? Makes one? I don't think Techtom makes an OBD2 gauge for VPW protocol.

I'd bet Derek's problem is either a) His car is knocking and the ECU has already pulled out mad timing or b) His aftermarket knock sensor is picking up other engine noise, which the ECU probably ignores from the stock sensors.
 

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"Philzilla"
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Spool said:
What benefits in performance does the Haltech offer?
Haltech offers the similar benefits to all other standalone engine managmenet solutions...you configure the timing, fuel, and other parameters in the ecu that is managing your car directly, via laptop. There are no piggyback devices (VPC, AFC, ITC, etc.) that go between the oem ecu and your engine. Tuning is typically more stable, and with proper tuning spoolup can be quicker and more power is possible than with the oem ecu.


Also, are you experiencing knocking?
Only when I try to run too much boost on pump gas (which is never now that I know where the edge is). The msd knock alert has a sensitivity setting, so you can tell when the engine experiences the very faint beginnings of knocking, (so you can back off quickly before the knock is serious).


If so, what boost levels?
Anything over about 23psi on pump gas will start to activate the knock sensor on my configuration - my ignition and timing curves are set up for race gas. If I tuned specifically for pump gas, I'm sure a bit more boost is possible.


If not, what tuning have you done to eliminate knock?
Again, just know where to set the boost controller when running pump gas. The knock alert was very valuable in finding this point.


Looks like it's strong from your numbers!
Thanks! :)


Do you have a website with your mods, 1/4 times/ dynos? Tell us about your turbo kit?
I'm still building the car - I haven't done 1/4's yet. Although I'm building the car more for roadracing than for the 1/4, I'll probably run the 1/4 just for fun someday fairly soon. Here's some more info on my car (it needs updating - I need to re-dyno since I've put my hks-triple clutch in:
http://www.mkiv.com/readersrides/readersrides/phil_panas/index.html
...with the mods that I'm currently doing (cams, Bullish intake, etc.), I conservatively expect to be at about 950rwhp.
 
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