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Discussion Starter #1
Car feels really sensitive after changing alignment. In particular it seems like i have to cut the wheel a lot more than before to get the car around a curve. It feels unstable and it makes me feel uneasy. SPecs are:

Front
Left Right
Camber -.9 -1.1
Caster 4.3 4.9
Toe -.03 -.02

Cross camber .1
Cross Caster -.5
Cross SAI -.1
Total Toe -.05

Rear
Left Right
Camber -1.3 -1.4
Toe .15 .06

Corss Camber .1
Total Toe .21
Thrust Angle .05
 

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you have toe out in the rear according to your specs. That would make a car act very darty or nervous at higher speeds.

You either havereally bad bushings and the alignment guy couldn't get close to the right specs, or you have a bad alignment guy.

What are the "lance alignment" numbers? I don't now them. I can't believe they are anything like what you have.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
1. What is a Good Street/Lance W. Alignment?
Front:

Camber - 1.0 degrees

Caster + 5.0 degrees

Toe 0.00 mm

Rear:

Camber -1.5 degrees

Toe in (total) 1.00 mm

(on 255/40R17 tires this rear toe equates to .090 deg, i.e. .045 deg per side)
(on 275/40R17 tires this rear toe equates to .088 deg, i.e. .044 deg per side)

The Front and Rear Toe are critical to tire wear, even small deviations from spec may cause unusual wear patterns or excessive wear.



2. What is the Stock Toyota Alignment?
Front:

Camber - 0.5 degrees +/- 0.75

Caster +3.5 +/- 0.75 degrees

Toe 0.00 +/- 0.080" (2 mm)

Rear:

Camber -1.50 +/- 0.75

Toe in (total) 0.120" (3mm) +/- 0.080" (2mm)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
you have toe out in the rear according to your specs. That would make a car act very darty or nervous at higher speeds.

You either havereally bad bushings and the alignment guy couldn't get close to the right specs, or you have a bad alignment guy.

What are the "lance alignment" numbers? I don't now them. I can't believe they are anything like what you have.
Are you saying the rear toe of Toe .15 .06 needs to be closer to 0? Is the total toe number (.21) off from what lance suggests?
 

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As Matt indicates : If you have toe-out the car will be "darty" and will have a greater propensity to rotate the rear.

Recommend you run 0 toe in the rear and this should address the issue.
 

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sks-

your 2 posts say different things. your first post indicates you have positive toe in the rear (toe out). Your second post lists a positive number, but says toe in. On the street, I would run a little toe in in the rear and the front. It will keep the car from wandering.

I personally would reverse your camber numbers running .5 degree more in the front than in the rear. But to each thier own. The more rear camber you have, the less straightline grip you have. The more front camber you have, the more braking will suffer. its all a trade off.

Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
sks-

your 2 posts say different things. your first post indicates you have positive toe in the rear (toe out). Your second post lists a positive number, but says toe in. On the street, I would run a little toe in in the rear and the front. It will keep the car from wandering.

I personally would reverse your camber numbers running .5 degree more in the front than in the rear. But to each thier own. The more rear camber you have, the less straightline grip you have. The more front camber you have, the more braking will suffer. its all a trade off.

Matt
The second post was a copy and past from the LANCE W alignment webpage. The first post are my actual numbers from the alignment sheet. I do not know how to reconcile the toe in toe out language for i am just repeating what the docs say. I do know my car feels a lil unstable. I would just like to know what the numbers should be at so I can auto-x this weekend. Get the rear toe to 0?
 

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If you gave him those specs and he gave you back your car looking like what you printed out I'd take it back to him and tell him to get it right. giving you a little toe out instead of a little in is a pretty big deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If you gave him those specs and he gave you back your car looking like what you printed out I'd take it back to him and tell him to get it right. giving you a little toe out instead of a little in is a pretty big deal.
you are talking about the rears, right? and it should be 0 not necessarily in, correct?

Thanks for helping and being patient with a newbie.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Alignment guys says the caster is the cause for the car to "wander" and that toe has nothing to do with the ride and simply just relates to wear; Supervisor also said that in the rear toe was not that off from spec.

Can you provide a little more information to relay to the alignment guy? Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Big - O Tires

The car also seems to pull to the right. Is that due to the uneven caster? Should they have had it evened out? For some reason, they wanted it to be uneven with a .5 difference.
 

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they didn't want it to be uneven. they didn't take the time to get it right.

What is your unit of measurement for the toe settings? It looks like his rear toe settings are 1.26mm off of what you asked for?

at Big-O, you probably have some uneducated 20 yr old with out a lot of skill doing the work. He does more alignments on minivans than sports cars. Frankily, you get what you pay for. Some cheap shops will do a good job, but some jiffy lube's do good service work too. There are exceptions to every rule.

Toe does change wear, but so does camber. what's his point? If your tires are toe'd out, then when you load up one side, it has a tendancy to want to walk that end of the car out. toe in in the rear will make a car understeer. toe out in the rear will make it oversteer. Its common knowledge of vehicle dynamics.

But what each one does is irrelavent. He is not giving you what you asked for. Ask them to give you what you asked for, or ask for your money back so you can pay someone to do what you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
they didn't want it to be uneven. they didn't take the time to get it right.

I RECALL THE SUPERVISOR TELLING THE GUY TO MAKE A .5 DIFFERENCE. IS THIS WHAT IS MAKING ME PULL TO RIGHT. PLEASE CONFIRM THEY ARE TO BE EQUAL

What is your unit of measurement for the toe settings? It looks like his rear toe settings are 1.26mm off of what you asked for?

I THINK IT IS MM. SO IS IT OFF .79?

at Big-O, you probably have some uneducated 20 yr old with out a lot of skill doing the work. He does more alignments on minivans than sports cars. Frankily, you get what you pay for. Some cheap shops will do a good job, but some jiffy lube's do good service work too. There are exceptions to every rule.

Toe does change wear, but so does camber. what's his point? If your tires are toe'd out, then when you load up one side, it has a tendancy to want to walk that end of the car out. toe in in the rear will make a car understeer. toe out in the rear will make it oversteer. Its common knowledge of vehicle dynamics.

IS THERE A SUFFICIENT DEVIATION FROM 0 TO CAUSE THIS IMBALANCE? DOES 0 MEAN NEITHER TOE IN OR TOE OUT?

But what each one does is irrelavent. He is not giving you what you asked for. Ask them to give you what you asked for, or ask for your money back so you can pay someone to do what you want.

I KNOW THEY ARE NOT WITHIN SPEC. ARE THEY REALLY FAR OFF?

THANKS AGAIN
 

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IMO you tell the guy you want your alignment specs on the nose.

For the street I'd set it up with:
Front Camber: -1.0 or -1.5 (should be equal)
Front Caster: should be as positive as possible while being equal (e.g. +4)
Front Toe: 1mm total toe in

Rear Camber: -1.0 (should be equal)
Rear Toe: 1mm total toe in
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ahh i think i get it.....is the positive current total toe .21 considered a toe out? Whereas the recommended "toe in" be -1.0? That would make it drastically off. What should the individual toe read or should i only be concerned about total numbers?
 

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Discussion Starter #18

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Discussion Starter #19
At shop now. Was told that evening vaster will make car pull more to theright. Do u have that problem with even caster? Also where measurement not indicated in first post measurement is in degrees ... Was told there was only a 4 mm differnce from target spec annd number represents toe in. That ok?
 

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I had the Lance W alignment done to my car before DRIVING To Texas, 2k+ miles.

I went there, came back, and now have put 5.5k miles on the alignment. Couldn't have felt any better. Car doesn't wander or do anything funny. Only problem is the car understeers, but that could be because of my 245's and 285's in the rear, an imbalance.
 
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