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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I was just wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on what I should do here...

I took my car to a machine shop two years ago for an engine rebuild due to some bottom end noise...

The machine shop did the work, (took about 3 months longer than the week it was supposed to) and returned the car to me.

2000kms after the break in period the car pulled the ol BHG, so the car was returned to the shop for warrenty on the rebuild.

I took precautions because I didn't want this to happen, resurfacing, checking for cracks, ARP studs... just a stock gasket was used, but that should have held up fine under stock boost.

The machine shop would not warrent the work. Their reason(s) being, the heat tab, that they "hid" on the car was burnt out, and/or they accused me of removing the hose on the wastegate...

now, A) the car was never overheated... besides Overheating is only sometimes the cause of a BHG, and its usually a symptom as well. B) The heat tabs that I saw on the engine were not burnt when I sent it via tow truck to the shop... so either that tab was never on the car, or they overheated the car to cook the tab.
and finnally C)What in gods name would posess me to remove that hose. That hose keeps the supra in line... I know what happens if you remove that hose... a huge f'in boost spike which results in a wrecked motor... maybe not in the first drive, but eventually, it's bound to wreck something. I know this because when I got the car, that hose had been compromised by the exaust manifold, which eventually got me a BHG, that I replaced... and It never blew.

So... I filed a small claims suit against them... we had the mediation... along with the above, their defence also relies on this... They figure since the 7m is prone to HG failure... If it blows one 2000kms after the rebuild, its not their fault.

Any pointers on what I should say/do before the hearing?

Thanks guys... much appreciated.
 

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when they did the rebuild. what did they torque the head to?
they prolly did it to the books specs which is 58ft lbs and not the 78 its suppose to be at.(not in the books)
 

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shouldn't matter, even if the hose was disconnected you'd hit boost cut and be fine

EVEN with the old crappy torque spec, it wouldn't blow, they fucked it up...

you need to find a good mechanic to tear it down and prove it was shoddy workmanship than nail em...
 

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Theres Plenty Of Supra Guys in the BC area. They might help you.
Post in the Canada forums on the main page.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
shouldn't matter, even if the hose was disconnected you'd hit boost cut and be fine

EVEN with the old crappy torque spec, it wouldn't blow, they fucked it up...

you need to find a good mechanic to tear it down and prove it was shoddy workmanship than nail em...
do you mean fuel cut? and are you sure that would save it? I mean, theroetically...

But you're right, I need to have a trusted mechanic take it apart... where to find one... I only trust myself, now... but I can't take the stand for myself.

when they did the rebuild. what did they torque the head to?
they prolly did it to the books specs which is 58ft lbs and not the 78 its suppose to be at.(not in the books)
I did tell them to overtorque the studs, to 65ft/lbs... whether they did or not I don't know... I guess I can find out just by retorquing them... Since the studs don't strech, in theroy they would be the same torque as they had torqued them to. (They had been clear that they didn't want it returned for a retorque after the break in.) Man, if one of the studs is undertorqued, I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.
 

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yep, fuel cut is there to protect the engine...
 

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take their ass down

come to court showing how toyota protects the motor from overboosting via fuel cut, and showing that taking off the hose from the wastegate will do nothing for you but cause fuel cut. also let them know that because the car was prone to bad headgaskets 15 years after the original build, doesnt mean a rebuild wont last past 2000km.... lol a good rebuild should last just as long or longer than the original build.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for that bit of info on fuel cut...

There is the matter of them saying I overheated the car, causing the headgasket to blow... He says he has proof of this in the form of the burnt heat tab he "hid" on my engine. Its pretty much his word against mine there...

He added at the mediation that "No shop will warnentee a cooked motor". And it does state in the warentee agreement that the warentee is void if the engine is overheated. I can't see how this could be considered common practice... especially if the car did overheat, it was due to a malfunction of a part that they replaced during the rebuild, Eg. Rad, Waterpump, HEADGASKET. Not only that, but it would have had to overheat during a Edmonton winter... damn cold.

They said that the rebuild would be directly comparable to a new engine and support system. Now, from my experience, when you drive a new car off the lot, put 2000 kms on it and it overheats, something is wrong with the car, not your driving. Correct?
 

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correct

ok, found out what heat tabs look like, and if he placed one of these things on the exhaust side of the engine it would melt as you drove it... or hell, if he "hid" it on the back EGR cooler it would melt as well...

here's what you're looking for...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Awesome.

She's in storage right now, and I'm kind of in Tofino... But I'm detective Rob, as soon as I get a spare minute here.

Thing is, I think he took this heat tab off the engine... as well as all the others. So how is he going to prove it was on there?

Well, I'll look for the unburnt tab I saw when I put it on the trailer to go to the shop... and if it's not there then I'll look for any evidence of it ever being there. If there is, great, I can prove there was more than one, and he's lying. If there isn't he can't prove his was on there.

I guess... Anyhow laptop's gonna die. Wonder if it's warm enough to surf here yet? I guess I'll find out tomorrow.
 

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yep, if it's not there, he can't prove a damn thing...
 

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Heat tab will likely be on the head, close to a water jacket if he knew what he was doing. If there is a blown heat tab on your engine you will never get anything out of them, trust me haha. I work at an automotive machine shop and I've seen my boss go to court a few times. If the guy says he took the heat tab off then he screwed himself over because he has no proof.

So yeah, if there is not a blown heat tab on your engine you should win in the end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Ok, the heat tab is on there, and it is melted. It's behind the cam gear cover right between the cam gears.

But thats just one of the many he said mysteriously dissapeared.

And how does this answer anything? It just says the car was hot. It doesn't weather the car got hot before of after the gasket blew.

A car shouldn't overheat right after the engine was rebuilt and the support system replaced...

The water pump was replaced, the rad was replaced, and the thermostat was replaced... all the hoses were checked... all by the shop. So it the car overheated, it was due to failure of one of those items... The only other way I could think of would be for the AC pump to be running, which I don't think I would be using in edmonton, in the winter... besides the AC fluid is long gone. So if one of those items were installed incorrectly, or failed. There is the cause of headgasket blowing. Definately not my fault.

Besides. I'm 100% sure the car was never overheated... didn't even get warm... Where am I going to find a hill to load it up on in Central Alberta?

EDIT: Ok, the warrenty statement says nothing about heat tabs... It does state this:

(Direct Quote)

"Warrenty does not cover damage through tampering. Lack of coolant, improper installation except when we install, or failure of an auxillary unit... ...will void warrenty"

I just realized the warrenty contract I signed says nothing about even being void if the car is overheated, let alone mentioning heat tabs. This guy's a grade A idiot. He's defending fradulent evidence that isn't even relevent to the case.

I'll post the name of the shop after the hearing for the blacklist. I just don't want him to google this. If your thinking of getting work done in the interior BC area, PM me and ill tell you who sucks.
 

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That is a tricky situation... I believe you when you say it was never overheated, so it is likely that he put a melted heat tab on there to save his ass.

Also, if the ruling is that your car was overheated then they are still screwed because they are the ones who installed the entire cooling system.

Best of luck to ya, you should come out on top.
 

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Ok, the heat tab is on there, and it is melted. It's behind the cam gear cover right between the cam gears.

But thats just one of the many he said mysteriously dissapeared.

And how does this answer anything? It just says the car was hot. It doesn't weather the car got hot before of after the gasket blew.

A car shouldn't overheat right after the engine was rebuilt and the support system replaced...

The water pump was replaced, the rad was replaced, and the thermostat was replaced... all the hoses were checked... all by the shop. So it the car overheated, it was due to failure of one of those items... The only other way I could think of would be for the AC pump to be running, which I don't think I would be using in edmonton, in the winter... besides the AC fluid is long gone. So if one of those items were installed incorrectly, or failed. There is the cause of headgasket blowing. Definately not my fault.

Besides. I'm 100% sure the car was never overheated... didn't even get warm... Where am I going to find a hill to load it up on in Central Alberta?

EDIT: Ok, the warrenty statement says nothing about heat tabs... It does state this:

(Direct Quote)

"Warrenty does not cover damage through tampering. Lack of coolant, improper installation except when we install, or failure of an auxillary unit... ...will void warrenty"

I just realized the warrenty contract I signed says nothing about even being void if the car is overheated, let alone mentioning heat tabs. This guy's a grade A idiot. He's defending fradulent evidence that isn't even relevent to the case.

I'll post the name of the shop after the hearing for the blacklist. I just don't want him to google this. If your thinking of getting work done in the interior BC area, PM me and ill tell you who sucks.
AH HA! they fucked themselves right here. But, the statement right after it is screwed up. They're going to try and say it's something that fialed that wasn't in theri control, even though they replaced everything... In the end, they installed it, so it's their fault. That spot for the heat tab is retarded, it's just going to get heat soaked as it's NOT cooled by any means. Doesn't state anything in the warranty about heat tabs, so it's more than likely not going to be admissable in court. Get a good lawyer and get em for everything. Also file a complaint with the BBB...
 

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Just checked today, that area of the engine gets VERY VERY HOT, there is NOTHING to cool it and EVERYTHING to heat it.

the guy's an idiot...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just checked today, that area of the engine gets VERY VERY HOT, there is NOTHING to cool it and EVERYTHING to heat it.

the guy's an idiot...
Thanks... that bit of info will help.
 

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Don't think it matters. A heat tab for the appropriate MAX temp for the engine should have been used. Assuming it was, if any part of the engine reaches that temperature then the engine was in fact overheated.

Mind you they do not sound like the smartest kids around, so maybe they used one without the correct melting point.

It should say directly on the heat tab what the blow out/ melting point is.
 

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Doesn't matter where it's placed as the Temp they melt at is MUCH higher than any normal operating temps........... (they hide them so people can't tamper with them)

Only saving grace may be the written contract if it doesn't mention it but if it's like most it will be in the fine print and I think "Lack of coolant" gives them an out in this case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There is no fine print. lol.

And the engine coolant that enters the head when the headgasket is blown, so if there was a lack of coolant when the engine was brought to them, It had leaked out through the cilinder head. A water tight cooling system shouldn't change levels very fast... And the birdcage would have come on under normal operating conditions.
 
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