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I am not taking offense - except for the fact that you are not reading and/or comprehending what I said, period. The B58 is BMW - that is enough for me.
I explained quite fully why I would not take a BMW if you gave it to me. Buy what ever you want but just shut up about this to me - you know NOTHING about my experience with BMWs and I can personally attest to their crappy reliability. Don't even consider bringing up anything about any surveys or testing of a period less than 10 years - that is the minimum time I am interested in as far as reliability.
Feel free to argue with someone else - since that seems to be your purpose here.
You don't seem to be on topic here, the thread is about the B-58 you have yet to say anything about the B-58... But I guess you would know more about BMW then I would even though you are "Generalizing" which is what I said originally and you got upset with that statement for whatever reason. I don't know how stating BMW motors are all bad is productive to this thread or how that isn't a "Generalized" statement. And again somehow when I call you out on this you get upset...

This is exactly what you said, what am I suppose to comprehend from this statement? That all BMW engines are bad and will break without doing anything, you wanna tell me how that isn't generalizing?? How that isn't an ignorant statement??

When I saw the thread title I thought - just wait a few years and the engine will break down without us doing anything................
 

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Trust In Trance
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How's that LFA purchase going or did you decide to buy your first house?

I really thought you'll stop making a complete fool of yourself after your original LFA statement, but i guess people like dont know any better.

As i said before, i have hard time believing anything you said. You are either a stupid teenager or some slow guy who has no idea who are people on this forum and thinks nobody will recognized his bullshit and lies.

If you think you can come here and say how you almost bought LFA but didnt just because insurance was expensive, and then decided its better to buy a house, and that that shit will fly here, you are an idiot.

If you think you can come here and say that you did some "5day online research" about certain engine and couldnt find anything wrong with it, you are AN IDIOT! Your statements are embarrassing and dont even deserve to be replayed to.

You are new to this forum (i dont believe your bullshit that you've been member here 15y ago), and you dont understand that we all have a shit tone of first and second hand experiences with a lots of different engines, including BMW. Speaking of BMW in particular, there are a lot of different threads as well regarding of quality/issues. Nobody's talking out of their asses (other then you).

Stop insulting peoples intelligence or you'll be put on ignore.
 

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I really thought you'll stop making a complete fool of yourself after your original LFA statement, but i guess people like dont know any better.

As i said before, i have hard time believing anything you said. You are either a stupid teenager or some slow guy who has no idea who are people on this forum and thinks nobody will recognized his bullshit and lies.

If you think you can come here and say how you almost bought LFA but didnt just because insurance was expensive, and then decided its better to buy a house, and that that shit will fly here, you are an idiot.

If you think you can come here and say that you did some "5day online research" about certain engine and couldnt find anything wrong with it, you are AN IDIOT! Your statements are embarrassing and dont even deserve to be replayed to.

You are new to this forum (i dont believe your bullshit that you've been member here 15y ago), and you dont understand that we all have a shit tone of first and second hand experiences with a lots of different engines, including BMW. Speaking of BMW in particular, there are a lot of different threads as well regarding of quality/issues. Nobody's talking out of their asses (other then you).

Stop insulting peoples intelligence or you'll be put on ignore.
Lol I guess I hit a nerve there, and I'm glad you really said how you really feel lol.

So for starters my original account: https://flic.kr/p/2emTgRm Squallz3 joined in 2002 my age is listed there as I stated in previous postings which is verified and proves accruate. and I had my supra in early 2000 joined in 2002, because again I joined here 6 years before even you did. If an admin could help me here I don't know the email address associated to this old account because it's been that long I don't recall my highschool email addresses. And I've stated multiple times that I relocated from Ohio to Newport Beach California well if you look at the old account it's DING DING in Ohio. I'm not lying about anything I'd gladly let you visit me in Southern California. In fact when I get my car next week back from restoration I'll shoot up images of it in Newport Beach with Ohio Plates and you'll look like a real idiot... And to go further then that I'll post images of the car with your name on it gimme 8 days. Oh and it's not cheap to live in Newport Beach or anywhere around it Irvine etc....
 

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My short experience with a relative's 440i(b58) has been topping off it's coolant reservoir for the turbo for some reason. The turbo and intercooler/intake manifold is water cooled and BMW uses a ton of plastic in their cooling system. The b58 seems to be a great motor, but with all that plastic BMW uses in cooling there are going to be a ton of failure points (don't forget VANOS). They've only been in current models for 3-4 years. Modifying and increasing heat is just going to make it fail quicker. Very curious to see if Toyota did anything to address these future issues because BMW is pretty notorious for these major reliability issues.
 

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Trust In Trance
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Lol I guess I hit a nerve there, and I'm glad you really said how you really feel lol.

So for starters my original account: https://flic.kr/p/2emTgRm Squallz3 joined in 2002 my age is listed there as I stated in previous postings which is verified and proves accruate. and I had my supra in early 2000 joined in 2002, because again I joined here 6 years before even you did. If an admin could help me here I don't know the email address associated to this old account because it's been that long I don't recall my highschool email addresses. And I've stated multiple times that I relocated from Ohio to Newport Beach California well if you look at the old account it's DING DING in Ohio. I'm not lying about anything I'd gladly let you visit me in Southern California. In fact when I get my car next week back from restoration I'll shoot up images of it in Newport Beach with Ohio Plates and you'll look like a real idiot... And to go further then that I'll post images of the car with your name on it gimme 8 days. Oh and it's not cheap to live in Newport Beach or anywhere around it Irvine etc....
Wow....as Silvere Supra said - you did not comprehend a single word i said. Just....wow

What a waste of time.
 

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Wow....as Silvere Supra said - you did not comprehend a single word i said. Just....wow

What a waste of time.
An LFA was more affordable a few years back I saw one in Texas that was in the 300 range a little under sticker actually a home in my area is over million dollars (all of them) and they've been that way for a while now in fact they're mostly in the 2 million dollar range today. And truthfully I contacted my insurance about insuring the car and they said they wouldn't insure a car of that value, I never said I could not afford the insurance I said I don't know how to insure an LFA, which is totally different. I'm sure if I had gone with another company I could have made something happen. I'm also sure this has happened to other people as well. Dig up my post on the LFA I never said I couldn't afford the insurance on it, I said I'm not sure how to insure it and that I decided to move to California. I paid way more then the cost of an LFA in a down payment (cash) to make the mortgage payments easier to digest. If I stayed in Ohio I could have easily owned an LFA, why does that bother you or why do you even care? I don't know what's so hard to believe or what your problem is?

Lastly please re-read what you posted, you have spelling errors and grammatical errors all over the place, yet you want to call me an idiot that's comedy:

I really thought you'll stop making a complete fool of yourself after your original LFA statement, but i guess people like dont know any better.

As i said before, i have hard time believing anything you said. You are either a stupid teenager or some slow guy who has no idea who are people on this forum and thinks nobody will recognized his bullshit and lies.

If you think you can come here and say how you almost bought LFA but didnt just because insurance was expensive, and then decided its better to buy a house, and that that shit will fly here, you are an idiot.

If you think you can come here and say that you did some "5day online research" about certain engine and couldnt find anything wrong with it, you are AN IDIOT! Your statements are embarrassing and dont even deserve to be replayed to.

You are new to this forum (i dont believe your bullshit that you've been member here 15y ago), and you dont understand that we all have a shit tone of first and second hand experiences with a lots of different engines, including BMW. Speaking of BMW in particular, there are a lot of different threads as well regarding of quality/issues. Nobody's talking out of their asses (other then you).

Stop insulting peoples intelligence or you'll be put on ignore.
 

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Trust In Trance
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An LFA was more affordable a few years back I saw one in Texas that was in the 300 range a little under sticker actually a home in my area is over million dollars (all of them) and they've been that way for a while now in fact they're mostly in the 2 million dollar range today. And truthfully I contacted my insurance about insuring the car and they said they wouldn't insure a car of that value, I never said I could not afford the insurance I said I don't know how to insure an LFA, which is totally different. I'm sure if I had gone with another company I could have made something happen. I'm also sure this has happened to other people as well. Dig up my post on the LFA I never said I couldn't afford the insurance on it, I said I'm not sure how to insure it and that I decided to move to California. I paid way more then the cost of an LFA in a down payment (cash) to make the mortgage payments easier to digest. If I stayed in Ohio I could have easily owned an LFA, why does that bother you or why do you even care? I don't know what's so hard to believe or what your problem is?

Here is your original post. Im just gonna leave it here and let others take care of you. There is just too much to make a fun of you.

I realize the cost of the LFA is pretty outrageous and is only going upwards. Had I stayed on the east coast in Ohio I probably could have purchased an LFA but insuring it would have been kind of nuts I would imagine. But I decided to move to California and that number got absorbed quickly in a home lol. I mean spending over 200k for a car is very different pill if not difficult pill to swallow... And it's not like on the east coast you could even drive these cars all that often...


Lastly please re-read what you posted, you have spelling errors and grammatical errors all over the place, yet you want to call me an idiot that's comedy:

Proudly born and raised in Europe. Moved to US when i was 20. English is my second language. Trying my best to write and speak as perfect as possible, and i bet your million dollar house my grammar is better then half of the people born here.

Whats your excuse for being an idiot?
 

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Here is your original post. Im just gonna leave it here and let others take care of you. There is just too much to make a fun of you.

Whats your excuse for being an idiot?
It's to make fun of you not make a fun of you.

Anyways in my original post about the LFA I said "Insuring it would have been kind of nuts I would imagine" I said that because my "current" insurance company wouldn't cover a car of that value when I inquired. So when I say nuts I mean nuts, because my current insurance wouldn't offer me insurance. Sorry if that doesn't qualify for "Nuts" and I guess I'm sorry if that upsets you but again this was years ago when I asked.... Are you sure you understand English because that doesn't mean or translate to I can't afford it. I had well over the cash needed to pay for an LFA but blew the cash on the down payment of a home 50% for digestible monthly payments on a mortgage. Again I don't know why that's so hard to believe. What I can't believe is you're 37 years old and you don't apparently know how home ownership happens or anything about it.

I realize you're "Born and Raised in Europe" but I don't think you can properly read English either. Because never in what I posted or what you've quote me on did I ever state I couldn't afford insurance. Anybody in Southern California will verify for you that cars are cheap when it comes to price of homes here, anyone... And on top of that I don't believe anyone is going to even blink when a guy states he lived in Ohio and moved to Southern California and bought a home and had he not relocated he could have afforded an LFA. That's not remotely outrageous in fact EVERY home owner in Southern California could probably afford an LFA if they didn't purchase their home and instead "Lived in Ohio". That's like a no brainier.

Do yourself a favor and go to Zillow and look up Newport Beach or Irvine California. Find a small shitty apartment in this area and see what the cost is to own 1500 sq foot place and maybe then you'll have an idea. After you get past that point, then start thinking about how many people in my area could have an LFA instead of their home if they lived in Ohio.

Whats your primary language?

Do you even have a Skyline GT-R? Because I know you don't have a Supra..

Again my original account: https://www.supraforums.com/forum/member.php?20685-squallz3 as I've had my supra since 99 and have been a member since 2002 so 2019-2002= 16 or 17 years (give or take a few months). I haven't been a member to supra forums for 15 years it's been more lol... I have a gap in my history here because I made the conscience effort to not obsess over the Supra (Even though I got one in highschool, to not lose my life over a car and to focus on building a career post high school) That's why I have a massive gap in my history* And it's heavy decisions like that, which make it possible to own an LFA or something better...

Dream big my friend and Dream Bigger Earlier, that's my best suggestion to you my friend...
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
To me, Toyota using the B58 was no more than one of their many cost saving methods to make the MKV good enough to sell, that's it.

In fact that might be all they need to who they're ultimately targeting and to sustain sales till justifying something better becomes reality, if it ever does... god I hope, but then we have other fundamental issues with the MKV that have no solution but the scrap the entire vehicle Lol.
 

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JetFire
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To me, Toyota using the B58 was no more than one of their many cost saving methods to make the MKV good enough to sell, that's it.

In fact that might be all they need to who they're ultimately targeting and to sustain sales till justifying something better becomes reality, if it ever does... god I hope, but then we have other fundamental issues with the MKV that have no solution but the scrap the entire vehicle Lol.
What are the other fundamental issues?
 

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I actually believe the B58 is used only to keep cost down. Had they gone to the drawing board or sourced an engine to be built through Yamaha etc. the price of the car would have been in the 70-80 range probably. While many people on these forums would agree to pay the 70-80 range number I believe Toyota really wanted to keep their price point to 50 and sourcing a powerplant like that is huge first step to keeping to that price point. (We could go all day as to why 50 is or isn't a good price point and the Supra Namesake, but whats done is done)

More than likely because of the dismissal of the Celica we got something in-between a Celica and a Supra but Toyota decided to label it a Supra. Toyota in 2019 is simply not Toyota of 1994. The lineup of vehicles is totally different along with what the brand/company is trying to achieve.
 

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Back from the dead here, not sure how many OG's are still around, but I have been keeping an eye on the new Supra and thought I would put my two cents in here. Grab a beer cause this is not going to be a short post.

For a very long time, I really wanted to love first the N54, N55, and B58 engines. Keep in mind, this post is coming from a guy who has owned two M3's.




Let's start with a few salient things posted about the B58 on the Bimmer forums:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1340302&page=2#post21119255








Wow, it sounds like N55 is the way to go then:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1430379&page=3


https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1256319


https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1256319&page=2






And I'm not even going to get started with the N54; it is well known the N55 that replaced the N54 is a less complicated engine that experiences less problems, despite the fact that the changes were for cost-saving measures. But how about the S65?

http://www.bebearings.com/Overview.html





Hell, let's go all the way back to the S54:

https://www.langracing.com/finding-a-real-solution-to-the-bmw-s54-rod-bearing-failure/





Combine all this with the spray-in cylinder liners the new Supra engine is using instead of sleeves, which is exactly what many suspect is what is plaguing the 2018+ 5.0 coyote engines in the new Mustangs with the "BBQ Tick" a.k.a. piston slap that is causing Ford to replace engines... seriously, go a head and google "Mustang BBQ tick".

Now, let's take a trip down memory lane and remember what exactly made the MKIV Supra a Supra.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-the-toyota-supras-2jz-is-such-a-legendary-eng-1794949464


(cont.)
Very well said! I was excited when i heard there would be a new Supra, but the more I look at this thing, the more upset and angrier I get. I have friends with BMW's and they tell me what a pain in the ass their motors are unless thousands of dollars are spent to maintain them and that doesn't always work. I really wanted something from Toyota to wow us, but this has under-delivered on so many levels. Toyota fails us yet again!
 

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Back from the dead here, not sure how many OG's are still around, but I have been keeping an eye on the new Supra and thought I would put my two cents in here. Grab a beer cause this is not going to be a short post.

For a very long time, I really wanted to love first the N54, N55, and B58 engines. Keep in mind, this post is coming from a guy who has owned two M3's.




Let's start with a few salient things posted about the B58 on the Bimmer forums:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1340302&page=2#post21119255








Wow, it sounds like N55 is the way to go then:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1430379&page=3


https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1256319


https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1256319&page=2






And I'm not even going to get started with the N54; it is well known the N55 that replaced the N54 is a less complicated engine that experiences less problems, despite the fact that the changes were for cost-saving measures. But how about the S65?

http://www.bebearings.com/Overview.html





Hell, let's go all the way back to the S54:

https://www.langracing.com/finding-a-real-solution-to-the-bmw-s54-rod-bearing-failure/





Combine all this with the spray-in cylinder liners the new Supra engine is using instead of sleeves, which is exactly what many suspect is what is plaguing the 2018+ 5.0 coyote engines in the new Mustangs with the "BBQ Tick" a.k.a. piston slap that is causing Ford to replace engines... seriously, go a head and google "Mustang BBQ tick".

Now, let's take a trip down memory lane and remember what exactly made the MKIV Supra a Supra.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-the-toyota-supras-2jz-is-such-a-legendary-eng-1794949464


(cont.)
Wow, welcome back and a great post. All I'm going to do is sit back and let those who are ready to dump their money on the MKV's to be the guinea pigs. B58's are still several years out and it's too early to say how they'll hold up to mods. One thing that's for certain is that the MKV Supra will help open up the aftermarket segment for the B58 which will benefit BMW. I still don't trust BMW quality even after Toyota has going through and tested their parts.

 

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A relative's 440i seems to have the mysterious coolant loss issue in it's b58. I was perplexed as to why it had two overflow tanks and why it was running low with such low miles. Good ole BMW cooling shenanigans. Engine, intercooler/intake manifold, and turbo all watercooled.... Hopefully Toytoa did more than just detune it.
 

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Moderator, l337 M0d3r4t0r
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First I'll start by giving out some warning about being respectful to community members even if you disagree with them.

Now on to the B58, Overall much more advanced than the 2jz! However, you have to remember Toyota's vision for 1990 when the first aristos rolled off with the 2jz. This engine was going to be used in the Lexus luxury line to compete with BMW and Merc direcetly.

Fast forward to 2019, and that engine to compete is a V6 TT / V8 so to keep true to the I6 this was the only option becuase there was no way in hell they were going to create one engine for one chassis.

B58 will probably be a wonderful engine for the first 5 years of ownership and first 2-3 owners. After that period and warranty is finished who cares about resale? Surely not BMW because they really don't make much money on the sales of parts vs selling a while new car package. So while yes I'm sure the B58 will probably be a good engine to make some power, it will mostlikely become what todays socity has become use and throw away. (Apple is master of this)

BMW isn't the only one using plastics, on my Lexus IS-F I had to replace the coolant valley FIPG due to leaks, and every plastic component including 2 injectors broke on removal due to age. Car was about 5 years old with 80k miles. So just as BMW is guility so it Toyota/Lexus and every manufacture.

Now don't mistake my defending the B58 as love for this car. I could very well see my self in a MK5 if it had a manual, but I certainly don't think it would be any good after 5 years unless aftermarket replaces most of this plastic with FMIC, hard pipes, etc.
 

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Trust In Trance
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BMW isn't the only one using plastics, on my Lexus IS-F I had to replace the coolant valley FIPG due to leaks, and every plastic component including 2 injectors broke on removal due to age. Car was about 5 years old with 80k miles. So just as BMW is guility so it Toyota/Lexus and every manufacture.

Ok, stop. Dont even go that way. Dont even try to put Lexus quality and BMW in a same sentence.“My Lexus had some issues so its no better then BMW” is a stupid statement. Your Lexus having bunch of issues is exception, BMW issues are well know thing.

I did not have IS-F, but had IS250 and 2 LS460s , put about 150k miles between them, and i drive HARD. The ONLY thing i had to change was oil, brakes and tires. THATS IT. And im sure almost all Lexus owners on here will confirm very minimal maintenance, while majority of BMW owners will claim nothing but the headaches.

90% of Lexus owners would never switch to other brand. 50% of BMW owners look elsewhere.
 

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JetFire
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First I'll start by giving out some warning about being respectful to community members even if you disagree with them.

Now on to the B58, Overall much more advanced than the 2jz! However, you have to remember Toyota's vision for 1990 when the first aristos rolled off with the 2jz. This engine was going to be used in the Lexus luxury line to compete with BMW and Merc direcetly.

Fast forward to 2019, and that engine to compete is a V6 TT / V8 so to keep true to the I6 this was the only option becuase there was no way in hell they were going to create one engine for one chassis.

B58 will probably be a wonderful engine for the first 5 years of ownership and first 2-3 owners. After that period and warranty is finished who cares about resale? Surely not BMW because they really don't make much money on the sales of parts vs selling a while new car package. So while yes I'm sure the B58 will probably be a good engine to make some power, it will mostlikely become what todays socity has become use and throw away. (Apple is master of this)

BMW isn't the only one using plastics, on my Lexus IS-F I had to replace the coolant valley FIPG due to leaks, and every plastic component including 2 injectors broke on removal due to age. Car was about 5 years old with 80k miles. So just as BMW is guility so it Toyota/Lexus and every manufacture.

Now don't mistake my defending the B58 as love for this car. I could very well see my self in a MK5 if it had a manual, but I certainly don't think it would be any good after 5 years unless aftermarket replaces most of this plastic with FMIC, hard pipes, etc.
Good post and I agree with you and stated the same unless Toyota could share an in house developed I6 motor in other models then it's almost pointless to build one just for the Supra. With that said I would have liked to see the TTV6 from the LS500 used but I'm sure with wanting to keep it I6 that was not viable and the price probably wouldn't have been $50K.

I agree if the aftermarket makes hard pipes or address the plastic pieces it may make the B58 a decent option as far as reliability.
 

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Moderator, l337 M0d3r4t0r
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Ok, stop. Dont even go that way. Dont even try to put Lexus quality and BMW in a same sentence.“My Lexus had some issues so its no better then BMW” is a stupid statement. Your Lexus having bunch of issues is exception, BMW issues are well know thing.

I did not have IS-F, but had IS250 and 2 LS460s , put about 150k miles between them, and i drive HARD. The ONLY thing i had to change was oil, brakes and tires. THATS IT. And im sure almost all Lexus owners on here will confirm very minimal maintenance, while majority of BMW owners will claim nothing but the headaches.

90% of Lexus owners would never switch to other brand. 50% of BMW owners look elsewhere.
Maybe you are mis reading invisible characters on the screen, At NO point did I mention quality of Lexus vs BMW. These fantasy arguments you are coming up with make no sense.

I said EVERY manufacture puts plastic in engine bays. ALL plastics break down and go brittle. It doesn't matter if it's BMW, Toyota or Bentley, it's just the way ALL cars are manufactured today and the idea of rebuilding something is going away are replacement is the norm.

To piss on your fire a little, you cannot compare 3 non performace branded cars to a performace branded car. I'm sorry but while the 460 shares a similar engine, it's NOT the same and there are known well documented issues and recalls. The coolant valley issue I noted was verified by dozens of fellow owners, along with the water pump leaking issues.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-f-2008-2014/677903-losing-coolant-ever-so-slightly.html

What I'm saying is NO whole car is issue free. I'm not going to bash the B58 yet, but as I said I don't think i'll be swapping out a JDM B58 with 60k miles in 15 years as I said I believe it's a disposable engine.

Finally, in case you missed my whole argument, which was B58 was used to pay hommage to the I6 used in previous supras. V6TT will be used in some other F platform Leuxs or Toyota at some point I'm sure.
 

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Ok, stop. Dont even go that way. Dont even try to put Lexus quality and BMW in a same sentence.“My Lexus had some issues so its no better then BMW” is a stupid statement. Your Lexus having bunch of issues is exception, BMW issues are well know thing.

I did not have IS-F, but had IS250 and 2 LS460s , put about 150k miles between them, and i drive HARD. The ONLY thing i had to change was oil, brakes and tires. THATS IT. And im sure almost all Lexus owners on here will confirm very minimal maintenance, while majority of BMW owners will claim nothing but the headaches.

90% of Lexus owners would never switch to other brand. 50% of BMW owners look elsewhere.
I don't know how you come up with these random statistics. Lets actually revisit this for a second: "90% of Lexus owners would never switch to other brand. 50% of BMW owners look elsewhere."

If 90% of Lexus owners are happy that means that their customer base would never shrink because they only lose 10 percent year over year while BMW is losing half their customer base year over year. Thus over an extended period of time Lexus should be like Huge like Toyota Huge but in the luxury segment and BMW should be tiny like Alfa Romeo tiny. I don't know where you live but when I go out driving around I'm not seeing anything close to these statistics. BMW isn't getting that many new customers while 50% of their customer base leaves, that's an absurd statistic.... And if you change your tune to "Oh well they look around but they don't actually switch, then what does that stat even really mean?"

If you read: https://www.orbisresearch.com/reports/index/global-luxury-vehicles-market-by-manufacturers-regions-type-and-application-forecast-to-2023

It states that Lexus Sedans are actually not selling well, I mean they're selling but they haven't experienced a whole lot of Growth and Audi,Bmw, and MB owns 70% of the Luxury Segment.And perhaps because they have not experienced a whole lot of growth lately they're trying things out like the Lc500, and some of these very different desgins. Now hypothetically if BMW was losing 50% of their customer base I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be in the top 3, yet somehow they are....

Furthermore I don't know why brand generalizing is happening so much, the MKIV is such a unique Toyota that I would never generalize Toyota with my MKIV and I would never use generalized statistics when talking about it either. I might entertain it when talking about Porsche though and that's only a might because the SUV's and the Panamera are very different from a 911...
 

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Trust In Trance
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Maybe you are mis reading invisible characters on the screen, At NO point did I mention quality of Lexus vs BMW. These fantasy arguments you are coming up with make no sense.

Lol Are you trying to insult my intelligence or you really dont know/understand what you wrote?

You are telling me that by saying “X car breaks (its parts) as well as the Y car” doesnt mean that you were comparing these 2, right? Why did you bring up X car if you were not trying to make some sort of comparison.

I do understand that you were talking about plastics, but i dont care if Lexus uses paper towels to tight a hoses, it works.It gets a job done. Car is reliable. No (plastic) parts gave up on any of the Lexus cars i had or the people i know. They were ranging from 40-120k miles and driven hard. Im not saying that you are lying, just thats its not something common that plastic parts are dying on Lexus like they do on BMW. And Just to clarify, im not judging just by my personal cars.




To piss on your fire a little, you cannot compare 3 non performace branded cars to a performace branded car. I'm sorry but while the 460 shares a similar engine, it's NOT the same and there are known well documented issues and recalls. The coolant valley issue I noted was verified by dozens of fellow owners, along with the water pump leaking issues.
Lol...I acknowledged that in my first post. I already told you that “Yes, i did not own the F model...”, purposely , and you are still coming back to let me know thats not the same. Sure...

My whole point is that the models i had are in no way performance models and yet, they never showed a single issue while driven hard. They were/are often in the red line and the LSs probably spent more total time being driven at the speeds over 120mph then half of the Supras over 80mph. Not trying to show off by any means, just to present you the driving style that the cars were exposed to, cars that are not meant for that kind of driving, and still holding like new. If these cars can hold these type of torture after years and years and tens of thousands of miles, i take it as a mothefucking reliable. And no...no plastic parts (or any kind of parts) gave up.
 
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