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Papadakis did a great job breaking down the motor!
Just joined the forum after watching his video! I'm confused though because Papadakis said the motor had pretty good potential but a lot of senior forum guys here said the motor is junk. Is Papadakis kind of a no name in the tuning market and doesn't know what's he's talking about?
 

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Just joined the forum after watching his video! I'm confused though because Papadakis said the motor had pretty good potential but a lot of senior forum guys here said the motor is junk. Is Papadakis kind of a no name in the tuning market and doesn't know what's he's talking about?
The most honest and accurate accounts on anything will always be given by those who stand to gain the least from it.

Everyone you see hyping this thing up has a financial interest in doing so.

If you want the hard facts about this car, read up on these forums. You'll see the separation between real gearheads and the hypejob posers.
 

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The most honest and accurate accounts on anything will always be given by those who stand to gain the least from it.

Everyone you see hyping this thing up has a financial interest in doing so.

If you want the hard facts about this car, read up on these forums. You'll see the separation between real gearheads and the hypejob posers.
Good points. Do vendors on this forum get any special protection? I don't want to get in trouble with the mods here but I see there's an influx of vendors looking to profit on the Mk5. Does the forum get a cut from that?
 

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iSPOOL
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Just joined the forum after watching his video! I'm confused though because Papadakis said the motor had pretty good potential but a lot of senior forum guys here said the motor is junk. Is Papadakis kind of a no name in the tuning market and doesn't know what's he's talking about?
What I see is too many websites and bloggers taking his words too far out of context. He said he believed the forged crank should be able to hold 1000hp, but some turned into the entire engine may be able to hold that much power. Crank & bottom end I can maaaaybe see coming close to that number but for how long who knows. But the surrounding parts are a definite no. Even the BMW shop on this forum explained some weak plastic points that fail easily well outside the 500hp mark let alone 1000hp.
 

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What I see is too many websites and bloggers taking his words too far out of context. He said he believed the forged crank should be able to hold 1000hp, but some turned into the entire engine may be able to hold that much power. Crank & bottom end I can maaaaybe see coming close to that number but for how long who knows. But the surrounding parts are a definite no. Even the BMW shop on this forum explained some weak plastic points that fail easily well outside the 500hp mark let alone 1000hp.
I see. So even though the crankshaft is strong, the other parts might not be. It will be interesting to see what people do in the coming months. For better or for worse.
 

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Good points. Do vendors on this forum get any special protection? I don't want to get in trouble with the mods here but I see there's an influx of vendors looking to profit on the Mk5. Does the forum get a cut from that?
Of course this forum has financial interest.

That's why they put the Zupr4 on the cover banner, in front of the REAL Supra, and start to delete posts/ban people when they start making too much sense against the fake Supra.

100%

I see. So even though the crankshaft is strong, the other parts might not be. It will be interesting to see what people do in the coming months. For better or for worse.
Yes, the crank of an engine might be able to hold 1000hp in theory, but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

That crank in perfect conditions in an otherwise fully built motor might hold it. Having a motor hold 1000whp like a 2JZ as a whole is a bit more of a systematic sweet science.
 

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Of course this forum has financial interest.

That's why they put the Zupr4 on the cover banner, in front of the REAL Supra, and start to delete posts/ban people when they start making too much sense against the fake Supra.

100%
Makes sense. Seeing that you've been here much longer than me and aren't afraid to say something bold is reassuring that the mods are pretty lenient around here. Good to know!
 

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iSPOOL
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i don't know why people say's "record holder" on the motor that was out 2 years ago. of course the 3 series guys probably did this to a m340i. when papadakis took the cover off that motor, it looked like a real headache with all those hoses and what not. and the sprocket/chain in the rear is just a design i almost threw up on.
 

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With all the long-term Supra shops battling tooth and nail to be "first" (a good thing, IMO), a bit of perspective is in order, I think.

First, the MKIV Supra aftermarket didn't really begin to take off until late 1997 and into 1998. You will recall 1998 was the year the MKIV Supra was discontinued in the USDM, but the car had been in the hands of owners since the middle of 1993. While I began modding Blackie 8-months after buying her, and running the risk of voiding my warranty at the same time, most owners, if they modded at all, went with mild, reversible BPU mods.

The MKIV aftermarket had to be created from whole cloth and that took time. The benefit, though, was most cars were off warranty and guys could dive into the deep end of the pool without fear since their warranties had expired for all but the newest cars (97s and 98s). Moreover, second owner MKIVs, usually, though not always, were already off warranty. So, just as the aftermarket began to really grow, there was plenty of business to be had for the reasons noted.

In the case of the MKV, fairly serious modding can occur immediately because of the B58 development conducted by BMW-focused shops over the last five years or so. At the same time, this apparent wealth of modding opportunities runs into the prospect of guys dropping $60k on a new MKV and deciding to almost immediately run the risk of voiding their warranties with some mod programs that already include a replacement turbo, to say nothing of the additional cost of whatever mod program is selected. From my perspective, I just don't see a lot of private owners taking this leap of faith, which is why the MKV development could be a shop-driven process, as opposed to the MKIV's owner-driven process, in the immediate future.

Last, let's assume the 2JZ-GTE motor was adopted by Hyundai, for instance, as its engine of choice and, right away, shops well versed with the 2JZ-GTE began making Hyundais go quicker and faster than anyone thought possible. Would anyone believe that Hyundai had a newly-developed secret sauce of its own making for its high performance cars? Of course not. We would all be saying something along the lines, "The 2JZ-GTE Hyundai motor was was already developed by Toyota and the Supra aftermarket". Well, the same thing applies to the B58 in the MKV.

I'm happy to see the extraordinarily quick development brought on by Supra tuners who are the best at what they do. But, let's not call the sky chartreuse when we know it's really blue, and let's not act like the B58 has gone from stock horsepower to 500+ and into the 10s since July 22, when the car was first released. Active Auto Werke and Twisted Tuning, recent sponsor additions to the site, have been tuning this motor for years. I'm not familiar with Twisted, but Active has been in the BMW tuning game since the 1980s. Some of its cars were in Turbo magazine during the same time period as some of my own cars, so I think it would be a good idea if we all chilled just a bit and waited to see what the future may bring regarding the MKV. I think that, and a bit more perspective, would be better than some of the breathless reporting we've all been dealing with most recently. I recognize this is the age of "internet influencers" so that's not likely to change for those so "influenced". But, one can hope, right?


Ken.
 

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Any idea what turbo?
No idea what turbo was used from Pure Turbos. From the dyno graph I'm guessing it was their 59mm that they have used previously but now on the newer head. I'm sure we will find out soon. Plenty of room for that one to hit 600whp if they add meth and ethanol to the mix.
 

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Makes sense. Seeing that you've been here much longer than me and aren't afraid to say something bold is reassuring that the mods are pretty lenient around here. Good to know!
Theres mods here?
 

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Of course this forum has financial interest.

That's why they put the Zupr4 on the cover banner, in front of the REAL Supra, and start to delete posts/ban people when they start making too much sense against the fake Supra.

100%
That was @forumadmin only, they gave us no input on anything let alone any say in the software update. I banned perfomancesound because he was steaming pile of non stop conjecture and conflict. He was sucking that mkv PENIS so hard it was coming out of his ear.
 

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That was @forumadmin only, they gave us no input on anything let alone any say in the software update. I banned perfomancesound because he was steaming pile of non stop conjecture and conflict. He was sucking that mkv PENIS so hard it was coming out of his ear.
Who is that? Who drummed up the idea of putting that Miata in front of the Supra on the cover of supraforums?
 

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JetFire
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With all the long-term Supra shops battling tooth and nail to be "first" (a good thing, IMO), a bit of perspective is in order, I think.

First, the MKIV Supra aftermarket didn't really began to take off until late 1997 and into 1998. You will recall 1998 was the year the MKIV Supra was discontinued in the USDM, but the car had been in the hands of owners since the middle of 1993. While I began modding Blackie 8-months after buying her, and running the risk of voiding my warranty at the same time, most owners, if they modded at all, went with mild, reversible BPU mods.

The MKIV aftermarket had to be created from whole cloth and that took time. The benefit, though, was most cars were off warranty and guys could dive into the deep end of the pool without fear since their warranties had expired for all but the newest cars (97s and 98s). Moreover, second owner MKIVs, usually, though not always, were already off warranty. So, just as the aftermarket began to really grow, there was plenty of business to be had for the reasons noted.

In the case of the MKV, fairly serious modding can occur immediately because of the B58 development conducted by BMW-focused shops over the last five years or so. At the same time, this apparent wealth of modding opportunities runs into the prospect of guys dropping $60k on a new MKV and deciding to almost immediately run the risk of voiding their warranties with some mod programs that already include a replacement turbo, to say nothing of the additional cost of whatever mod program is selected. From my perspective, I just don't see a lot of private owners taking this leap of faith, which is why the MKV development could be a shop-driven process, as opposed to the MKIV's owner-driven process, in the immediate future.

Last, let's assume the 2JZ-GTE motor was adopted by Hyundai, for instance, as its engine of choice and, right away, shops well versed with the 2JZ-GTE began making Hyundais go quicker and faster than anyone thought possible. Would anyone believe that Hyundai had a newly-developed secret sauce of its own making for its high performance cars? Of course not. We would all be saying something along the lines, "The 2JZ-GTE Hyundai motor was was already developed by Toyota and the Supra aftermarket". Well, the same thing applies to the B58 in the MKV.

I'm happy to see the extraordinarily quick development brought on by Supra tuners who are the best at what they do. But, let's not call the sky chartreuse when we know it's really blue, and let's not act like the B58 has gone from stock horsepower to 500+ and into the 10s since July 22, when the car was first released. Active Auto Werke and Twisted Tuning, recent sponsor additions to the site, have been tuning this motor for years. I'm not familiar with Twisted, but Active has been in the BMW tuning game since the 1980s. Some of its cars were in Turbo magazine during the same time period as some of my own cars, so I think it would be a good idea if we all chilled just a bit and waited to see what the future may bring regarding the MKV. I think that, and a bit more perspective, would be better than some of the breathless reporting we've all been dealing with most recently. I recognize this is the age of "internet influencers" so that's not likely to change for those so "influenced". But, one can hope, right?


Ken.
Ken excellent post, I posted something similar about the impact of social media and marketing and consumers. Whoever is the first with a MKV to do X,Y,Z takes the spotlight for that moment in regards to likes, comments, views etc....on social media outlets aka go viral. The B58 definitely had a jump start in regards to tunes etc...as it was already available in other platforms before, my understanding is that the head in the MKV is different vs the other ones before. I find the 2 port exhaust ports odd but it was more than likely setup that way for quick spool. And with the B58 no one really cared much about it until now because of the Supra name. Me personally I'm enjoying watching small business compete to push the platform will be interesting to see what the actual limits are I saw that it did 700 before not sure that was a dyno pull or 700 driving around on the street. Time will really tell how this car does, I'm sure it will make good power, but will it be somewhat reliable is the question.
 

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iSPOOL
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I've made the same points as well. But was flamed by the MKV crew for urging people to use caution prior to modifying their brand new under warranty cars. These shops want headlines and money, they don't care about your prized possession as much as you would.
 
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