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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Your input and experiences are greatly appreciated. I am one of the owners of DanZio Performace Engineering in California. I am running the only buggy with a 2JZgte that is known to exist. Some of you may have seen the videos on our web site. I chose this engine for my own personal car because of our experience with street cars and the great reputation of this engine being durable.

However, we have had more issues with this engine than any other engine we have ever had come through our doors. I love the power and want to keep running it, but I am about to take this thing out and chuck it in the trash if I can't figure out how to make this thing live for more than 2 weekends.

Just to get it out of the way, there are zero tuning issues or engine assembly. We have an in house mustang dyno, and I have tons of hours logged running and testing this thing on the dyno. Air fuel ratios are perfect.

I do however, beat the hell out of this thing. On a typical dune ride, this sucker will spend most of the time at @20 psi from 4500 to 7500 for up to 20 or 30 minutes at a time. This may be the problem. However before this is pinpointed to be the problem, we have zero problems running subarus or LS series Chevy engines in the same manner. They often last for years. We turn it up to around 30 psi for the sand drags which is @ 1/8th mile.

Here is a breakdown of the engine followed by associated problems.

Carrilo rods
JE pistons
Clevite bearings
Crower springs and retainers
Stock head and cams
ARP head studs
ATI damper
1000cc RC injectors
T-66 Turbo

First major failure. Was running the car at @ 30 psi for about 5 minutes in short burst one right after the other. Blew the head gasket & lost coolant very quickly. Warped the hell out of the head. Full rebuild with new head.

Next major failure. Running around 18psi. Was not beating on the car very hard. Punched it, ripped through a couple of gears, and lost a rod in #6 at about 7000prm. Parts came out on both sides and the botton of the block. Ruined it. We determined that it stuck the rod to the crank and broke it. There was bearing wear on #3 rod bearing as well.

Next failure. Another rod bearing. I can barely hear it knocking, and will have it tore apart by Friday to determine the damage. However it has deffinitly lost another bearing.

Constantly have leaky front main seals, but no signs of crank walk. We may be getting some sand in the seal, but can't make that determination for sure.

So I guess what I am asking is WTF???!! Do these things have oiling issues? Is there any one out ther that beats there car like this? I would equate it to a road racing type of condition. Is there anyone running a 2JZ in these types of extreme condtitions? If so, what are they doing to make it live. I am wondering if everything is just getting too hot and working to hard eventhough the coolant temp doesn't ever get above 210 F. My next thing is to put this thing on methenol to try and get this thing to live. Any suggestions, constructive comments or questions is appreciated. Pulling this thing out every two or three trip is getting real old and real expensive.

Josh
DanZio Performance Engineering
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
If this belongs over in the technical, will a moderator please move it there. Thank you.
 

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What sort of timing are you using and what sort of fuel? That would be my first place to look as far as the head gasket issue.

The oiling related problems may be due to your application in a dune buggy. The center sump may not be the best suited for pickup in high operating angle situations.
 

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Damn Josh that is so weird you just posted this. I saw a pretty sick rail on a trailer headed out the 10 East tonight and I was wondering what was happening with your project. I just logged on and searched to see when the last time you were on and I found this.

I am curious to see what others say because my car will be used & adused much like yours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
chevyeater-on-sf said:
What sort of timing are you using and what sort of fuel? That would be my first place to look as far as the head gasket issue.

The oiling related problems may be due to your application in a dune buggy. The center sump may not be the best suited for pickup in high operating angle situations.
Not too much. I'd have to look in the map to get the exact numbers, but they are approximatly around 18 degrees to about 18 psi and then start pulling around a degree per couple pounds or so after that untill it stops around 12 degrees. Pretty conservative given the way we run it. I have always ran it on Sunoco 112 octane race fuel.

We ditched the center pan after the first bearing issue. I went to the lexus pan which has the sump at the front of the engine, which is at the rear of my car given it is a rear engine. This was our first thought as to the oiling problem.
 

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Are you monitoring oil pressure?

What are your bearing clearances?

You sure that you have no detonation?

Have you done anything to the oil pump for more pressure?

What oil do you run?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sound Performance said:
Are you monitoring oil pressure?

What are your bearing clearances?

You sure that you have no detonation?

Have you done anything to the oil pump for more pressure?

What oil do you run?
Pressure runs up to about 80psi. We modded the pump for more pressure.

Am possitive there is no detonation. We have correction maps pulling timing for increase in air temp, run it a little rich, allways run 112 octane, have never heared any lean pop or detonation, and we are very conservative for timing. Every time it has come apart, we have also inspected the pistons for detonation No signs. I very confident that it is not a tuning or fuel issue.

I'm not sure on the bearing clearances. My partner Chris assembled the engine.

We have tried torco 20-50 synthetic and Vavloline racing 20-50 (the stuff you get through race teams). Failure on both of these.

The only thing I have not monitored is the oil temp. A gauge is going in this week and we will test it next week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
One thing I am really curious about is if there is anyone that is abusing their engine like this or has tried to, and what are the failures and successes. :1poke:
 

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Sound Performance said:
Are you monitoring oil pressure?

What are your bearing clearances?

You sure that you have no detonation?

Have you done anything to the oil pump for more pressure?

What oil do you run?
as always you're on it.
I'm also woundering if they are over heating.
also the 2jz crank's a lot stiffer than the chevy's and subbie's the constant trantion and lose of traction in the sand might be jaring your motor around a lot.

that's just my 2.20600076 Canadian cents

I'd love to come see it some time!
 

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As far as road racing goes some folks run an accusump to ensure that oil pressure is not lost. Additionally, most hardcore folks run an oil cooler to keep the temps in check.

I've beaten my motor on the road course pretty well in "BPU" and other folks have done so with single turbo setups, modified for appropriate cooling, etc. You're probably pushing it beyond all of the hobbyist track folks at this point.

The only advice I have for you is to instrument the heck ouf of the motor and monitor for likely failure signs. Have you done oil analysis, etc?

Good luck.
-Chris
 

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let me state this very clear Josh; The 2JZ-GTE is perfect for the application you are using it for. what PROBABLY isn't perfect is

1) Your motor isn't fit snug to the chasis; use hardened motor mounts. Horse power freaks carries a nice set. Will help from unwanted transmission/motor shift.

2) Who ever is building your motor isn't measuring the correct clearances for the rods and bearings.

3) Use an Engine management system!
 

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toshiba75 said:
let me state this very clear Josh; The 2JZ-GTE is perfect for the application you are using it for. what PROBABLY isn't perfect is

1) Your motor isn't fit snug to the chasis; use hardened motor mounts. Horse power freaks carries a nice set. Will help from unwanted transmission/motor shift.

2) Who ever is building your motor isn't measuring the correct clearances for the rods and bearings.

3) Use an Engine management system!
Uh :scratch:

I dont think this guy is a fool. I've seen a short vid of this thing on the dyno... wicked :)

Josh, im no engine builder by any means, but can at least tell you what i've learnt from hanging round here. The 2jz really is about as tough as any engine you'll find, certainly up there with a good EJ or LS engine. There is no weakness in its stock oiling system. The stock crank seals dont usually cause problems unless you're not evacuating crankcase pressure well enough or if you have crank walk. Crank walk is actually seen a fair bit in supras with a high milage, a heavy clutch and the stupid clutch switch still in place. But this is really caused by the clutch switch forcing you to start a cold engine with load on the dry thrust bearings.

If you're positive there is no detonation going on, I guess the best possiblities are;
-poor bearing clearances (not being a dick, just a suggestion)
-massive crankcase pressure causing oil pressure loss thru the seals (not even sure if this is entirely possible)
-the oil pickup is starving when the vehicle is up on crazy angles.
-there have been sightings of poorly made new toyota shortblocks recently, oilways not properly drilled etc - if you've used a new block/crank you might want to look into this? I think there were some new oil pumps also affected - but it sounds like you've checked this out.

Have you thought about a drysump setup?

Good luck

Gene
 

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I built my new shortblock and found that the oil passages in the crank were not drilled out to the same spec as my old OEM 94 block. I remachined the oil passages and blew out each passageway to make sure all metal was out and that there were no blockages between journals.

Also find out if he's using a bolt stretch gauge on the rods. I've found that on Carrilo rods (carr bolts) you must measure each bolt since they tend to be a few thousandths different in length and that would throw your torque reading off upon assembly.

Finally I tend to run higher oil pressure than 80psi, closer to 100.

Goodluck,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you guys all for the suggestions so far. I do run a massive oil cooler, but it is a crappy location. I was never too worried about it beacuse o fit's size, but am now narrowing it down to the one last thing I haven't monitored. I am most suspect of oil temps and breakdown of oil. We are going to monitor this next week at the race we are running.

I was also wondering about enough oiling getting back to that #6 cylinder.

I've thought about oil starvation in the pick up, but have pretty much ruled this out. None of the other brands of motors we mess with have this issue with way less of an oiling system.

I have thought about dry sumping it, and may pursue this option. If I'm going as far as putting it on methanol, then I may as well dry sump it too. It just seems like I am having to do a lot of extra work to get this particular engine to live.

I am in no way trying to advertise here and we mostly work on sand cars. However, if you want to check the car out on video and also rule out any of the rookie mistakes that may have been made on the car, you can check out our web site. www.danzioperformance.com
 

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Oil cooler will drop down your oil pressure a lot, for example a greddy 16 row will get it down around 25 psi or so, from 85 to just 60.... so it is a trade off that no one on this forum may want to talk about it...
 

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How are you evacuating the crank case pressure? Hopefully you have some type of vacuum to the valve cover, not just an open filter or else you will blow the front main seal.
 
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