</STRONG>Originally posted by Oolan Zimmer:
<STRONG>My brakes faded going into turn 7 of Blackhawk farms on Friday and I had a close encounter with the runoff area. Fortunately, nothing significant is broken, and I think I can get on track again this Thursday with safety wire, duct tape, lots of new fasteners, and of course new brakes.
I'll be revisiting my pedal setup because my throttle pedal is either too high or my brake pedal is too low (depending on your perspective). This caused me to not brake hard enough when heel-toeing.
In the meantime, I need to move up to better brake pads than stock. What are your opinions of
- Hawk blues
- Carbotech panthers
- Porterfield R4
Fast availability is a factor here, I need them by Tuesday.
</STRONG><STRONG>I'm currently using fresh Valvoline Synthetic brake fluid (dry boil point 502F). Do I need to move up to something better?
I got 'em from Rally Distributing upon Jeff Hood's recommendation.Originally posted by Oolan Zimmer:
<STRONG>Andi,
Where did you get your brake pads?
Thanks!</STRONG>
The Hawk Blues have better cold stopping power than stock. Only downsides are that they're hard on rotors, they dust, and they squeal.Originally posted by Grant:
<STRONG>Andi, you mentioned you use the Blues on the street. Is there any danger with their lack of cold stopping power? I don't want to have to keep a seperate set of rotors and pads if possible.</STRONG>
Hmm.. do you have your heel on the gas and your toes on the brake? If so, try it the other way... heal on the brake pedal, and roll your foot onto the accelerator.Originally posted by Oolan Zimmer:
<STRONG>
I'll be revisiting my pedal setup because my throttle pedal is either too high or my brake pedal is too low (depending on your perspective). This caused me to not brake hard enough when heel-toeing.
</STRONG>
You don't want to use Blues as a street pad. They wear the rotors VERY fast, and the large amounts of dust they leave is extremely hard to get off if you don't do it very soon after it appears. Some of the residue they leave is rotor dust since they eat the rotors, which will turn a lovely shade of rust if it gets wet. Changing pads is a 5 minute job once you've done it a few times. Just do it when you put fresh fluid in before the event. Street pads belong on the street and race pads belong on the racetrack.Originally posted by Grant:
<STRONG>Andi, you mentioned you use the Blues on the street. Is there any danger with their lack of cold stopping power? I don't want to have to keep a seperate set of rotors and pads if possible.</STRONG>
And I would agree with Eric if I wasn't so damn lazy.Originally posted by Eric:
<STRONG>You don't want to use Blues as a street pad. They wear the rotors VERY fast, and the large amounts of dust they leave is extremely hard to get off if you don't do it very soon after it appears. Some of the residue they leave is rotor dust since they eat the rotors, which will turn a lovely shade of rust if it gets wet. Changing pads is a 5 minute job once you've done it a few times. Just do it when you put fresh fluid in before the event. Street pads belong on the street and race pads belong on the racetrack.</STRONG>
Plus I work from the house and only drive the Supra about twice a week anyway...I thought that might be the case... But wouldn't you need to change rotors as well? I know most people resurface their rotors when they put new pads on, of course our rotors are just trash after 1 set of pads anyways, I hope my cryo treated ones last longer...Originally posted by Eric:
<STRONG>You don't want to use Blues as a street pad. They wear the rotors VERY fast, and the large amounts of dust they leave is extremely hard to get off if you don't do it very soon after it appears. Some of the residue they leave is rotor dust since they eat the rotors, which will turn a lovely shade of rust if it gets wet. Changing pads is a 5 minute job once you've done it a few times. Just do it when you put fresh fluid in before the event. Street pads belong on the street and race pads belong on the racetrack.</STRONG>
The first thing I'm trying is putting the (stock or similar) rubber cover on the brake pedal and reinstalling the metal cover. That might get me the amount of clearance I need. I get most of the distance between the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal with the accelerator pedal cover.Originally posted by Andi:
<STRONG>Oolan,
take the cover off the accelerator pedal...
Andi</STRONG>
I've heard people claim you should have different rotors for different pads, but I don't, and it seems to work fine. The only downside I've found is that the Porterfields leave a residue on the rotor that it takes a few good stops to wear off. Until it wears off, you can't brake quite as hard as normal with the street pads. I usually make it a point to do a couple of hard stops on the way home from the track so the brakes are there if needed.Originally posted by Grant:
<STRONG>I thought that might be the case... But wouldn't you need to change rotors as well? I know most people resurface their rotors when they put new pads on, of course our rotors are just trash after 1 set of pads anyways, I hope my cryo treated ones last longer...</STRONG>
Will going to a higher friction pad in front and leaving the stockers in back screw up brake proportioning? I've also heard (from Jay Marks) that blues in front and blacks in the rear work well.Originally posted by Andi:
<STRONG>Hawk Blue front brake pads are the ticket, absolutely no question. Highly recommended. Leave the stockers in back.
I also run Motul RBF600, which as a dry boiling point of 592... $90 per case of 12 from Adam Hume at Stillen. I buy a case every few months..
Andi</STRONG>
Thanks for the heads-up. That's just what I don't need on the track. I'll be going with Hawk Blues.Originally posted by Eric:
<STRONG>Stay away from the Panthers, they are not a real race compound. They will fade with hard use, and fade fast when they go. </STRONG>
Is the issue volume of air or placement of air? IE, if I route from the existing duct to the back of the rotor, will that help, or do I need to duct from underneath the car?<STRONG>
Also, regardless of what pad you use, run some ducts to the center of the rotor. The dust shield has a hole that is perfect for wedging some 3" tubing into, and it points directly at the center of the rotor, where you want the airflow to go.
</STRONG>
No. Rememeber that when you have more tire (like your Hoosiers), you have more braking, meaning more weight transfer to the front wheels when braking. Which means just to keep the same balance of braking at the limits of all 4 tires, you need to add more braking (better pads) to the front.Originally posted by Oolan Zimmer:
<STRONG>Will going to a higher friction pad in front and leaving the stockers in back screw up brake proportioning? I've also heard (from Jay Marks) that blues in front and blacks in the rear work well.
</STRONG>
[ August 19, 2001: Message edited by: Andi ]I'm going to flush with fresh Valvoline for this coming event because I know I can get it easily. I'll call around to see who has Hawk blues for our cars in stock.</STRONG>
