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I'd have to disagree with you here. That's practically the only way to do it without investing in expensive external pumps, surge tanks, etc. There is no reason to avoid setting up your fuel system to activate the 2nd or 3rd pump based on boost pressure, rpm, or whatever trigger you want to use as long as the rest of your systems are set up to handle it. The newer fuel pumps that we are using today actually require less demand of your electrical system than they did years ago due to technology upgrades - both electrical and internal hard parts/design. Running 2 or 3 pumps full time is actually detrimental as you are placing that load full time on your systems-you're overheating the fuel-you could possibly cause fuel pressure issues if you have too much fuel flowing to the injectors and not enough return, and you'll wear out pumps prematurely. I've been a member here since 2002 and there have been literally hundreds of threads on this forum where guys couldn't figure out their fuel issues. Come to find out, most of them were trying to run 2 or 3 pumps full time and that was their issue. Once they corrected that, everything went back to normal.

Steve
It's true you need to have the injector offsets correct, but if you're having fueling issues and you don't have this information entered correctly, then that is the reason. Blaming it on voltage drop due to staged pumps kicking on is like blaming ignition timing issues on drift when you never had the sync reference set up correctly in the first place. Nonsense. Most quality injector companies provide this data, but it's up to the tuner to enter it correctly, and if not that's on the tthem.

Staging pumps is not "over complicated", and in fact I'd go so far as to say it's pretty much SOP for street cars making big horsepower on E85.
You actually need to replace the cable that goes from the alternator to the fuse box. PHR sets a nice kit. It's not cheap, but it's very high quality.

Steve
Yup, yup and yup. Agree with all this.

Relating to the OP, I have ID 1340 cc/min injectors and PHR E-85 fuel system with two Walbro 485 pumps and PHR's three-pump harness in case I ever want to go bigger. On my one and only boost setting (setting for my 91-octane map), the car made 730 whp. The SP Engineering Dynojet was not working and the Mustang was acting cranky as well so that's where we stopped.

I don't have duty cycle or boost data yet, but will obtain both the next time I'm down there and update this thread accordingly.


Ken.
 

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That a Gen1 or Gen2 GTX2582R?

I would beef up the fuel hardware before trying to max one out on ethanol, I always recommend people to go overboard on fueling, especially where 2000cc injectors nowadays can idle so well.
 

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I don't like the idea of multiple fuel pumps because it's more points of failure..... and when you have a fuel pump failure during a critical moment, it takes your motor w/ it. Even with small amounts of voltage drop due to another pump coming on, the electrical system is VERY sensitive to this at high RPM. Think "injection events per second". Yes, I'm the "new guy" here and none of you all know me, that is ok. I've done a whole lot of tuning and just because something works doesn't mean it's a good idea. People run mas air flow sensors in blow thru also... and that "works".... but it's very wrong. I'm not suggesting anyone has a setup that is "wrong" based on multiple pumps, but I am saying that the extra complication/expense/point of failure is not for me.

I use a hex drive pump driven off the cam on my non toyota car. This is more reliable and provides far more fuel than peoples crazy triple pump setups..... and it is easy to install. I'm just a guy though, and that's just my two cents. I'm allowed to be "wrong" in anyone's eyes just as they are allowed to be "wrong" in my eyes.
 

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I don't like the idea of multiple fuel pumps because it's more points of failure..... and when you have a fuel pump failure during a critical moment, it takes your motor w/ it. Even with small amounts of voltage drop due to another pump coming on, the electrical system is VERY sensitive to this at high RPM. Think "injection events per second". Yes, I'm the "new guy" here and none of you all know me, that is ok. I've done a whole lot of tuning and just because something works doesn't mean it's a good idea. People run mas air flow sensors in blow thru also... and that "works".... but it's very wrong. I'm not suggesting anyone has a setup that is "wrong" based on multiple pumps, but I am saying that the extra complication/expense/point of failure is not for me.

I use a hex drive pump driven off the cam on my non toyota car. This is more reliable and provides far more fuel than peoples crazy triple pump setups..... and it is easy to install. I'm just a guy though, and that's just my two cents. I'm allowed to be "wrong" in anyone's eyes just as they are allowed to be "wrong" in my eyes.
[/QUOTE
TBH the car just needs to be setup properly, if you are using just piggyback ECU's I can see where a pump failure would be a problem but any decent standalone ECU should allow the tuner to program some failsafes in case of issues like having a pump die. Also for strictly street cars mechanical fuel pumps can become a hassle especially when keeping things such as A/C (Albeit there seems to be camshaft driven kits avail that weren't around in the early 2000's. Now priming a mechanical fuel pump system usually requires a separate surge tank with an electric pump to pressurize the tank or your just gonna have to sit there cranking the car till it builds up enough fuel pressure. A surge tank isn't entirely necessary but apparently mechanical pumps can cause a good deal of vacuum especially in long fuel lines, which lowers the boiling point of the fuel which can cause vapor lock (you can increase fuel line size to help mitigate this). I would say that if you only need 2 electrical fuel pumps for your power goals then electrical pumps are still quite practical, but if you need 3-4 or may upgrade to that amount in the future then a cam driven fuel pump + surge tank would probably be a better choice. 3 pump kits cost about the same as a mechanical setup when you've factored in all the fittings and lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Hello everyone, appreciate the replies. Ended up buying ID2000 injectors after seeing several people here running them with no driveability issues. This will allow me to move up in turbo eventually and not have to worry about fuel system again. Also got a Radium Fuel Rail with the Radium FPR that mounts directly to the rail. My next fuel system purchase will be a Radium Surge Tank with twin 450’s. When needed I’ll add a 3rd 450 and that should be plenty even with a built bottom end I’ll do one day.
 

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I think that comes down to your tuner/ECU. I run 2000cc's with my PTE 68/70. driving is perfectly fine for daily cruising.
So the 2000ccs are fine, on a non-alcohol based fuel, and is running "sensible" mixtures at idle and cruise (like around stoich)?
 

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I don't like the idea of multiple fuel pumps because it's more points of failure..... and when you have a fuel pump failure during a critical moment, it takes your motor w/ it. Even with small amounts of voltage drop due to another pump coming on, the electrical system is VERY sensitive to this at high RPM. Think "injection events per second". Yes, I'm the "new guy" here and none of you all know me, that is ok. I've done a whole lot of tuning and just because something works doesn't mean it's a good idea. People run mas air flow sensors in blow thru also... and that "works".... but it's very wrong. I'm not suggesting anyone has a setup that is "wrong" based on multiple pumps, but I am saying that the extra complication/expense/point of failure is not for me.

I use a hex drive pump driven off the cam on my non toyota car. This is more reliable and provides far more fuel than peoples crazy triple pump setups..... and it is easy to install. I'm just a guy though, and that's just my two cents. I'm allowed to be "wrong" in anyone's eyes just as they are allowed to be "wrong" in my eyes.
I hate to say it, but any decent standalone will provide protection against pump failure/lean conditions/lack of fuel pressure, etc. That's the whole point. If you were running piggy backs circa 2002 then maybe you'd be in trouble, but most modern standalones are monitoring air/fuel, fuel pressure, injector duty cycle, knock, etc.

Steve
 
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