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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently bought a MKIII that I plan on building/restoring. I'm currently in the process on speccing out the engine as I plan to build around 500-600 hp and I am looking for some input in regards to a potential list of parts I will be putting in the motor.
-ARP head bolts, rod bolts, main studs
-BC Single Spring & Titanium Retainers
-BC 28mm Exhaust valves
-BC 33mm Intake Vales
-BC Valve Guides
-BC Stage 2 Cam - 264
-CP Piston 83.5mm//JE Pistons unsure of which one im going with
-Eagle Rods
-Fidanza Cam Gears

Any input helps to steer me in the right direction, my plan with these is if I plan to upgrade in the future the motor won't have to be torn down and replaced with other parts.
 

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I recently bought a MKIII that I plan on building/restoring. I'm currently in the process on speccing out the engine as I plan to build around 500-600 hp and I am looking for some input in regards to a potential list of parts I will be putting in the motor.
-ARP head bolts, rod bolts, main studs
-BC Single Spring & Titanium Retainers
-BC 28mm Exhaust valves
-BC 33mm Intake Vales
-BC Valve Guides
-BC Stage 2 Cam - 264
-CP Piston 83.5mm//JE Pistons unsure of which one im going with
-Eagle Rods
-Fidanza Cam Gears

Any input helps to steer me in the right direction, my plan with these is if I plan to upgrade in the future the motor won't have to be torn down and replaced with other parts.
The best starting place is the post by @Wreckless pinned at the top of this forum.

Post plenty of pictures and welcome to the forums here. We’ll be watching :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The best starting place is the post by @Wreckless pinned at the top of this forum.

Post plenty of pictures and welcome to the forums here. We’ll be watching :)
I'm starting with these parts strictly cause I'm on a time crunch as I am getting these at a significant discount (likely around 25% overall) and need to place the order before I lose the opportunity to. As for his post, it was one of the first things I had read when I began researching the car for a more detailed analysis and will likely employ a variety of the suggestions given. For the time being heres a sneak peek;)
Car Vehicle Wheel Tire Automotive side marker light
Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Hood
 

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I'm starting with these parts strictly cause I'm on a time crunch as I am getting these at a significant discount (likely around 25% overall) and need to place the order before I lose the opportunity to. As for his post, it was one of the first things I had read when I began researching the car for a more detailed analysis and will likely employ a variety of the suggestions given. For the time being heres a sneak peek;)
View attachment 263268 View attachment 263267
just a heads up, where are you ordering from. ive contacted several distributors and theres little to no stock for eagle rods or arp hardware. Eagle themselves said their earliest production run for 7m rods is 4 months from now earliest. unless these are all shelf stock items prepare to endure the waiting game as parts are getting harder and harder to source as mentioned from threads recently of guys trying to piece together coolant hoses, power steering pumps lol (me) and various other components.

Is this a runner? How much engine overhaul experience do you have or is someone doing the work? regardless dont set any dates. I know personally ive slacked and probably missed out on plenty of good deals and parts for our 7m but theres always hope, as long as you have patience.

Nice ride btw. she needs a good wax and polish and shell shine like new again, you just gotta worry about the rest...lol you and me both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
just a heads up, where are you ordering from. ive contacted several distributors and theres little to no stock for eagle rods or arp hardware. Eagle themselves said their earliest production run for 7m rods is 4 months from now earliest. unless these are all shelf stock items prepare to endure the waiting game as parts are getting harder and harder to source as mentioned from threads recently of guys trying to piece together coolant hoses, power steering pumps lol (me) and various other components.

Is this a runner? How much engine overhaul experience do you have or is someone doing the work? regardless dont set any dates. I know personally ive slacked and probably missed out on plenty of good deals and parts for our 7m but theres always hope, as long as you have patience.

Nice ride btw. she needs a good wax and polish and shell shine like new again, you just gotta worry about the rest...lol you and me both.
Yeah I am aware as I’m ordering from Turn14, anticipated time for some parts is in October but I figure if I order now I’ll have saved over a thousand for parts alone, I’m not so much in a rush to build it, but ideally would like to have the parts cause of the decreased availability. As for engine it does have rod knock but I planned on building the motor out anyway so it will need an overhaul. As for the experience I know quite of few people who have built 7Ms and do this kind of thing for a living. As much as I would love to do the work myself I’d feel much comfortable with someone who has a lot more experience and will save the tinkering for another car.
 

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Another one saved and rebuilt!!! Fuck yeah! Welcome, Roaire! 🍺

I totally get the 'future proofing' build plans. I also totally applaud the 'buy once, cry once' approach. But building a car is a garden, and you're focusing on exactly one tree (a pretty fuckin' nice "tree", but just one tree nonetheless)

So, this begs the question - what's wrong with the existing engine? Has it spun a bearing or done something else to require a full teardown?

Here's the second, kind of harsh reality; building a badass 7M longblock is great, but the stock ECU is absolutely terrible. Terrible to the point of being easily able to fry a nice beautiful built engine at really low HP if the right variables all happened.

It'd be great to get all those parts at a hefty discount, but from the pictures it looks like the car needs a lot of basic restoration work ; hoses, belts, wiring, suspension parts, refreshed brakes, tires, etc.
It's a lot less glamorous, but a running/driving car in near stock condition beats the hell out of a pile of shiny parts and a garage monument on jackstands - trust me, I know.

That aside, to your specific questions:

The BC 264's are a good idea for your 500-600whp goals, as are the valve springs and Ti retainers. Valve guides, may as well do them I guess.
But unless your existing stock valves are damaged, I'd skip the oversize valves unless you're sending the head to someplace that genuinely knows what they're doing with porting a Japanese DOHC engine.

You'll want ARP head studs, not head bolts. The rod bolts are redundant as any set of rods worth buying come with rod bolts too. For 500-600hp you really don't need rods, but ARP rod bolts would be a good idea if you're using the stock rods. Eagles, if available, are a good choice here.
You'll also want a MLS headgasket to match. If you're doing an 83.5mm bore be sure to source an 84mm bore MLS gasket, some come as big as 86mm bore and that just complicates things with quench, squish, and further reduced static compression if you're on a bore so much narrower than the MLS headgasket.

I'd go with Wiseco pistons, personally.

Fidanza is trash and I wouldn't buy their flywheels or the cam gears. Especially because their 7M cam gears were designed by a long time 7M guy and Supraforums member @sixpack and they gave him basically nothing for his efforts, and turned around and cut him out of the deal once they could.

Technico down in Australia makes a superior product when it comes to cam gears and other 7M support parts - and ethically.

Further things to consider are a brand new oil pump, and the Arizona performance oil pump line and other support parts to improve oil pressure and flow on a 7M-GTE. The stock oil filter block underneath the turbo manifold is a shit show for good lubrication, and I'd plan on replacing it all with a proper full-flow thermostatically valved oil cooler setup. Easy time to install an oil filter relocation too.

With all that done, I'd honestly focus on a modern engine management solution that involves a crank angle sensor, because taking a crank angle input from the cam position is absolutely begging for disaster as entirely too many 7M and RB owners can already attest. Basically your ignition timing will never be accurate without a crank sensor, it'll always be in a range of +/- 6-8* which can and will spell disaster. That's a big part of what makes the stock ECU so terrible, as mentioned above.

Beyond all that; focus on bushings, hoses/belts/wiring, and refreshing the brakes and tires and other misc parts, fluids etc that go bad from sitting like that.
 

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To kind of parrot off of what Wreckless said, Fidanza Gears are pretty terrible, mostly because their gears are made of aluminum, and soft aluminum at that. But yea, Glad to see another MK3 getting saved!
Another thing that's kind of overlooked, change out the steering rack bushings. They'll do more to tighten up your steering than 70% of other mods will, and it'll stop the rack from shifting in the subframe. Driftmotion sells them for about 55$~.
Good Luck, and welcome to the Club!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Another one saved and rebuilt!!! Fuck yeah! Welcome, Roaire! 🍺

I totally get the 'future proofing' build plans. I also totally applaud the 'buy once, cry once' approach. But building a car is a garden, and you're focusing on exactly one tree (a pretty fuckin' nice "tree", but just one tree nonetheless)

So, this begs the question - what's wrong with the existing engine? Has it spun a bearing or done something else to require a full teardown?

Here's the second, kind of harsh reality; building a badass 7M longblock is great, but the stock ECU is absolutely terrible. Terrible to the point of being easily able to fry a nice beautiful built engine at really low HP if the right variables all happened.

It'd be great to get all those parts at a hefty discount, but from the pictures it looks like the car needs a lot of basic restoration work ; hoses, belts, wiring, suspension parts, refreshed brakes, tires, etc.
It's a lot less glamorous, but a running/driving car in near stock condition beats the hell out of a pile of shiny parts and a garage monument on jackstands - trust me, I know.

That aside, to your specific questions:

The BC 264's are a good idea for your 500-600whp goals, as are the valve springs and Ti retainers. Valve guides, may as well do them I guess.
But unless your existing stock valves are damaged, I'd skip the oversize valves unless you're sending the head to someplace that genuinely knows what they're doing with porting a Japanese DOHC engine.

You'll want ARP head studs, not head bolts. The rod bolts are redundant as any set of rods worth buying come with rod bolts too. For 500-600hp you really don't need rods, but ARP rod bolts would be a good idea if you're using the stock rods. Eagles, if available, are a good choice here.
You'll also want a MLS headgasket to match. If you're doing an 83.5mm bore be sure to source an 84mm bore MLS gasket, some come as big as 86mm bore and that just complicates things with quench, squish, and further reduced static compression if you're on a bore so much narrower than the MLS headgasket.

I'd go with Wiseco pistons, personally.

Fidanza is trash and I wouldn't buy their flywheels or the cam gears. Especially because their 7M cam gears were designed by a long time 7M guy and Supraforums member @sixpack and they gave him basically nothing for his efforts, and turned around and cut him out of the deal once they could.

Technico down in Australia makes a superior product when it comes to cam gears and other 7M support parts - and ethically.

Further things to consider are a brand new oil pump, and the Arizona performance oil pump line and other support parts to improve oil pressure and flow on a 7M-GTE. The stock oil filter block underneath the turbo manifold is a shit show for good lubrication, and I'd plan on replacing it all with a proper full-flow thermostatically valved oil cooler setup. Easy time to install an oil filter relocation too.

With all that done, I'd honestly focus on a modern engine management solution that involves a crank angle sensor, because taking a crank angle input from the cam position is absolutely begging for disaster as entirely too many 7M and RB owners can already attest. Basically your ignition timing will never be accurate without a crank sensor, it'll always be in a range of +/- 6-8* which can and will spell disaster. That's a big part of what makes the stock ECU so terrible, as mentioned above.

Beyond all that; focus on bushings, hoses/belts/wiring, and refreshing the brakes and tires and other misc parts, fluids etc that go bad from sitting like that.
Thanks for all the input!
As it stands right now I did plan on replacing almost every part regardless, essentially a brand new car, I’m aware of the costs and time it’ll take to source everything but I’ve already come to terms with it. As I don’t know how long this car was sitting when I bought it I didn’t want to chance it. She’s got 73k miles but engine has rod knock so it will need to be torn down regardless but a beauty with no rust and a couple paint chips that will be placed down and repainted eventually. Oil pump, stand-alone ECU, intercooler, etc upgrades were already on the radar and was fully planning on being upgraded. An 89’ car that’s being sitting for who knows how long - guy had the car at 53k in 01’ and sold it to me at 73k two months ago - I wanted to do everything top to bottom, not to mention some bracing for the chassis flex as it is a targa. I’m expecting this build to take over a couple years as it will be costly and I need to be somewhat be smart with money😉
 

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Thanks for all the input!
As it stands right now I did plan on replacing almost every part regardless, essentially a brand new car, I’m aware of the costs and time it’ll take to source everything but I’ve already come to terms with it. As I don’t know how long this car was sitting when I bought it I didn’t want to chance it. She’s got 73k miles but engine has rod knock so it will need to be torn down regardless but a beauty with no rust and a couple paint chips that will be placed down and repainted eventually. Oil pump, stand-alone ECU, intercooler, etc upgrades were already on the radar and was fully planning on being upgraded. An 89’ car that’s being sitting for who knows how long - guy had the car at 53k in 01’ and sold it to me at 73k two months ago - I wanted to do everything top to bottom, not to mention some bracing for the chassis flex as it is a targa. I’m expecting this build to take over a couple years as it will be costly and I need to be somewhat be smart with money😉
I bought mine in 2005 with plans to fix a BHG and flip it. In the process, I found a group of enthusiasts' in a Canadian forum (I am in southern California) and I fell it love with it, the people, the culture. I had similar plans to replace everything, even went so far to take a box of nuts, bolts and washers to Fastenal and order minimum quantities of virtually every piece. As I replaced one, I would throw the old one away so that I wouldn't end up with unidentified hardware that I had not replaced. I obviously took things too far. Sixteen years later she's almost going back together.

Take lots of pictures, and bag and mark every part. It will save you a lot of pain in the future. I just saw a Facebook post of someone putting their Mk3 back together using a Haynes Celica Supra manual... notably crap compared to the factory books, but, as he pointed out, his father's handwritten notes from ten years ago. I've got one of those manuals, with all my handwritten notes, too. Wonder if someday my sons will be doing the same. I still reference it occasionally, and find out things I don't remember doing specifically, like the values I used to set the ring gaps and other tolerances.

My car had about 187K on the odometer, but once I got into the engine, I found that it must have been on it's third one. It was a JDM replacement from a company named K.Watanabe (there were washers attached at various places), and further, not only was it a replacement, but it had been bored two steps oversize. Those engines were supposed to be low-mileage units due to Japanese "law" that said they couldn't go over a certain number of miles. So, mileage numbers can be deceiving. One just has to roll with what they've got.

It's fun, it's a great hobby, and hopefully I will be able to actually drive it one day. I am 73. As I get close there is an incentive to lose weight so I can fit in my six-point harness on the carbon fiber bucket seats :)

Good luck with the build and hang on to the goal. The journey is the reward for me. Hope to see you around the forums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@Wreckless funny enough I do have another question and the opportunity came up no more than a hour ago. If I were to buy a 2jz long block, unknown mileage as it stands that runs, would that overall be better and give me a better more reliable results more cost effectively, 3500 for it…
 

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@Wreckless funny enough I do have another question and the opportunity came up no more than a hour ago. If I were to buy a 2jz long block, unknown mileage as it stands that runs, would that overall be better and give me a better more reliable results more cost effectively, 3500 for it…
Unknown mileage/condition just means you have the possibility of an ostensibly more reliable/desirable engine for $3500. Which snowballs into much more money once you include all the stuff needed to put any kind of JZ into a 7M MK3... and your budget turns into a dumpster fire of money if that engine needs a rebuild or refresh work too.

Or you can spend $3500 on building a fresh, strong as fuck 7M-GTE and have some left over to go toward a modern, kick ass ECU with separate cam/crank sensors, a modern ignition system, etc. Those two things solve 95% of the 7M-GTE's problems right there. And it'll be new and fresh and a known quantity.

If I were starting from your position right now, square zero with a 500-600whp goal, I'd definitely stay 7M and just build it properly.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Unknown mileage/condition just means you have the possibility of an ostensibly more reliable/desirable engine for $3500. Which snowballs into much more money once you include all the stuff needed to put any kind of JZ into a 7M MK3... and your budget turns into a dumpster fire of money if that engine needs a rebuild or refresh work too.

Or you can spend $3500 on building a fresh, strong as fuck 7M-GTE and have some left over to go toward a modern, kick ass ECU with separate cam/crank sensors, a modern ignition system, etc. Those two things solve 95% of the 7M-GTE's problems right there. And it'll be new and fresh and a known quantity.

If I were starting from your position right now, square zero with a 500-600whp goal, I'd definitely stay 7M and just build it properly.
To clarify, I did not ask for mileage as it came up during a conversation when talking with the tuning shop about building out the 7M. I will be asking them tomorrow as we are both going to the same show. You have any questions off-hand that I should ask regarding it?

While yes there are plenty of conversion parts that will be needed, I will be doing a standalone regardless of motor I go with. I have yet to teardown the 7M and only know the condition of having rod-knock, hoping for just a spun bearing. Another reason I believe it may be better is because of the place im going to, they do specialize in 2j/1j motors and would be buying from them. When I go to do the tuning of it, the 7m will be requiring more total tuning time as they already have preset maps for the 2j and would essentially just pay for the tune, not the whole testing route of doing it out inherently making that part cheaper. To add - the 7m will likely be sold after, assuming its not a dud, assisting to offset the cost difference.

I will definitely like to run this conversation back tomorrow when I officially talk to the guy about the information on the motor and see if it is too good to be true or if I am getting a solid deal out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
To clarify, I did not ask for mileage as it came up during a conversation when talking with the tuning shop about building out the 7M. I will be asking them tomorrow as we are both going to the same show. You have any questions off-hand that I should ask regarding it?

While yes there are plenty of conversion parts that will be needed, I will be doing a standalone regardless of motor I go with. I have yet to teardown the 7M and only know the condition of having rod-knock, hoping for just a spun bearing. Another reason I believe it may be better is because of the place im going to, they do specialize in 2j/1j motors and would be buying from them. When I go to do the tuning of it, the 7m will be requiring more total tuning time as they already have preset maps for the 2j and would essentially just pay for the tune, not the whole testing route of doing it out inherently making that part cheaper. To add - the 7m will likely be sold after, assuming its not a dud, assisting to offset the cost difference.

I will definitely like to run this conversation back tomorrow when I officially talk to the guy about the information on the motor and see if it is too good to be true or if I am getting a solid deal out of it.
Just as to a little background for the place, I was referred to them by a friend in the car club at my university and found that the guy who owns the shop actually founded the car club and they have dealt with him before. If Im lucky, I could also be getting a friendly discount for being part of the club.
 

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I’m expecting this build to take over a couple years as it will be costly and I need to be somewhat be smart with money😉
Then you are heavily under estimating the capital it would take. If you are not carving out at least 50,000 MINIMUM (read that again... i said minimum) on parts alone (not including labor if you are doing the work yourself) you will not get far for a "restore" on the MKIII.

COUTNLESS folks have come through these SF gates with the same aspiration and the ones that come with no budget ALWAYS fail.

Set a STRICT unmoving budget. Then we can guide you on what to do to get the car back on the road within that budget. Be realistic with the budget. The days of doing things on the cheap for the MKIII are almost to the point of being a memory.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Then you are heavily under estimating the capital it would take. If you are not carving out at least 50,000 MINIMUM (read that again... i said minimum) on parts alone (not including labor if you are doing the work yourself) you will not get far for a "restore" on the MKIII.

COUTNLESS folks have come through these SF gates with the same aspiration and the ones that come with no budget ALWAYS fail.

Set a STRICT unmoving budget. Then we can guide you on what to do to get the car back on the road within that budget. Be realistic with the budget. The days of doing things on the cheap for the MKIII are almost to the point of being a memory.
As I don't anticipate this car driving for at least 2-4 years, my budget is more leaned towards 30-35k high end, 20k low end. Majority of the work will be done by me except for the engine and tuning, and maybe a couple of things that I come up with that I am not comfortable with. This is a slow and steady build, I am by no means in a rush and want to do this properly.
 

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One question,

you do have another reliable mode of transportation yes? You personally not someone else's to include family.
 
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Having had entirely too many of those 'long term' projects myself - some sage advice in a different direction;

Fuck HP, fuck the glory build and all the big parts lists - focus instead on getting the car running and driving reliably in near-stock form instead.
Much as @figgie alluded to, already, you're basically setting yourself up for years of additional expenses with little enjoyment. If you're that serious about a big HP JZ build, that's great, but get the 7M rebuilt in stock form with some fresh bearings and an MLS headgasket, and just work on the relatively easy maintenance stuff like refreshing brakes, suspension, etc, putting a stereo in it.

Near stock 7M's aren't fast by today's standards, but it's a really fun car to just drive and enjoy with the targa off.

The years spent being able to drive and enjoy the car in stock-ish form will absolutely be worth 100% of the cost and labor expense, and doing all that refresh work will nicely set you up for the big build/engine swap.

I lost out on so many years of enjoyable, driveable cars because I was always shooting for the moon with one build or another, so they were always on jackstands instead of on the road.
Don't make those same mistakes I did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
One question,

you do have another reliable mode of transportation yes? You personally not someone else's to include family.
Yes, currently have my Acura TL with 206k miles, in the process of getting ownership of a wrecked Type S for motor and tranny swap
I have another car for transportation which is a 2008 Lexus IS250 with 140k.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Having had entirely too many of those 'long term' projects myself - some sage advice in a different direction;

Fuck HP, fuck the glory build and all the big parts lists - focus instead on getting the car running and driving reliably in near-stock form instead.
Much as @figgie alluded to, already, you're basically setting yourself up for years of additional expenses with little enjoyment. If you're that serious about a big HP JZ build, that's great, but get the 7M rebuilt in stock form with some fresh bearings and an MLS headgasket, and just work on the relatively easy maintenance stuff like refreshing brakes, suspension, etc, putting a stereo in it.

Near stock 7M's aren't fast by today's standards, but it's a really fun car to just drive and enjoy with the targa off.

The years spent being able to drive and enjoy the car in stock-ish form will absolutely be worth 100% of the cost and labor expense, and doing all that refresh work will nicely set you up for the big build/engine swap.

I lost out on so many years of enjoyable, driveable cars because I was always shooting for the moon with one build or another, so they were always on jackstands instead of on the road.
Don't make those same mistakes I did.
You have a very good point which I didn't put extreme thought into, but nonetheless has crossed my mind. The way I am setting up this build currently, is exactly how you explained it, essentially on jack stands for potentially a few years. With that being said my biggest concern about more delays in purchasing is the availability of parts as these cars are getting older and older, becoming rarer and rarer each year, especially the highly sought after engines like the 2JZ. My main thought has always been stuck in the mentally of getting everything now and building it all later as opposed to building as I go. It does help to put things into perspective and I do appreciate that viewpoint as well. Aside from availability parts dwindling, the second reason I am more accepting of the car sitting, is that I am entering my senior year of university and soon after will be looking for my first year-round full-time job so not a lot of time would be spent driving except from point a to point b, adding to the decision of letting it sit as I accrue more parts, not paying for an extra cars registration and insurance that I won't be able to use often, if at all.

I am currently building out a comparison list in excel of 3 plans, 2 being immediate motor builds, the 2j and 7m, and the third rebuilding 7m stock form. In the 3rd, 7m stock form, I am building out the worst-case scenario as like I mentioned earlier, have not torn down the block. The other two would be the necessary components to reach my potential goals, without having to worry about worst-case cause it will essentially be mostly new internals. The other part of the excel will account for costs of getting the rest of the car in working order, brakes, suspension, etc. I will continue writing this out and post here for some potential feedback of major components I am missing, regardless of build choice.

As a side note, from this new perspective, a route I could do is build 7m stock form and get everything in working order and sit on the 2jz-gte long block for a while as I slowly get the parts I need and when the time comes to get the motor built and everything else required so its all done in one go. It would be logical as this will give me the best of both worlds.

Again thank you to everyone for adding input as I can sometimes be put into a static mindset, outside views come a long way.
 
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