[TTExtreme]

Perhaps SP or DaveH or others can give their expert advise on this but I have yet to see this in detail anywhere on the net.

I am looking to get more out of the NA besides the AFC, Intake, Exahust and Cam gears to produce HP approaching 300 to 340. I'm not a glutton for 500 to 700 HP so the mid 300 should do.

And I want to do this without a turbo!

Here's my thought build:

Intake (with or without ported MAF)
Exahust (3.0 to 3.5 diameter)
Cam Gears
Cam Shaft (performance not racing)

Now the above mentioned parts will get me what with this combo? Are there more aggressive intakes or just the one? Will the port and polished MAF gain HP or is that just an excersize in futility?
Will the Cam gears WITH the CAM give me more hp or, agian is this gain more like 2 to 3 hp additional in which case I would'nt even give it the time of day?

Now can the above combo be augmented with:
Larger injectors (is there again in hp with this?)
Better or larger header (this would probably be custom but at what hp level?)
And finally, having the ECU tuned with these parts in mind. Not a fan of the dangling AFC. Would like new power bands programmed into the ECU itself Vs the piggy back method.

Will this setup yeild the 300 to 340 hp desired? Or will it be close OR is this something no one has ever tried before?

SP has gotten north of 600 hp WITHOUT a turbo on an NA. If they can do this then they must know of how to get incremental gains towards 350 HP with off the shelf components mixed in with a few custom parts.

Tell all!!!

 

[Frankenstein]

At one point I was going to pursue this, until I realized how pointless it is. Agressive cam work is expensive and you probably wont end up with a daily driver.

I finally just broke down and decided to put a turbo kit on.

I have assembled all the components for the turbo kit for $2500 without the fuel system (should be worth about 300hp) - then later I can add a boost controller and a fuel system for about $1000 more (should get me close to 400hp).

 

[TTExtreme]

Thanx Frank for the info.

The Cam work I had in mind was not for racing but a perfomance CAM. They have them for the Honda's so I thought they might for the Supra N/A.

The amount you quoted for the parts are really cheap. What is the spec sheet (list of parts) that you have so far?

At one point I was going to pursue this, until I realized how pointless it is. Agressive cam work is expensive and you probably wont end up with a daily driver.

I finally just broke down and decided to put a turbo kit on.

I have assembled all the components for the turbo kit for $2500 without the fuel system (should be worth about 300hp) - then later I can add a boost controller and a fuel system for about $1000 more (should get me close to 400hp).

 

[Frankenstein]

That $2500 all hinged on Turbochargers.com who has a "starter kit" with a manifold, wastegate, and T4 turbo for $1700. Then I would get a stock SMIC for $100, Oil Filter adapter and lines for $150, used BOV for $100, then custom IC piping and downpipe for around $400.

However, the guy I talked to today from there said that they get the manifolds from Turbonetics - and as far as I know, Turbonetics doesn't make a manifold for the 2JZ-GE. I think that they thought the TT mainfold would fit the NA because they are both 2JZ blocks, but I am pretty sure that isn't the case.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[vreaux728645]

I've just emailed www.toysport.com about n/a performance. Check www.socalsupras.com. They show a pic of a 400 hp n/a. Probably not streetable! Any way we can maybe mill the head or use 12:1 slugs & get performance anywhere near the BMW M3?

 

[Mr. Gotsnoboost]

Ok tell me how the hell SP got 600 hp with no power adders????

 

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i will continue my quest...*trumpets*... to get close to 300 whp without a turbo... and still have it as a daily driver... *trumpets get louder*... for as long as my car's engine is still running... i will strive to get the most out of the n/a supra...*trumpets get really loud then stop*... HAHAHA ...Ya... ok... enough of that... i've got 105k miles and will keep adding performance till the car dies.

hopefully in a couple years i'll still be thinking the same.

a turbo is soooooo tempting though. it's those damn BOV's... makes me want one so bad... it's like car pharamones if you know what i mean.

 

[TTExtreme]

Come on guys.

No one has used the parts from the list I made in the initial thread?

I sure would like to get a little more power out of this thing above the 300 HP mark since I bought it so cheap. I sure don't want to look for another TT at this point.

I guess the big question boils down to if the Camshaft would work in the NA. From the HKS it looks like the cam is offered on the TT but not the NA. I just don't know why that is the case.
They also say the idle will be rough but how rough?

This chip I see on the net also has some mystery about it. The web site (superchips.com) only talks about the TT but not the NA.

We all know the intake, exahaust, AFC and CMa gears only offers 35hp max. If the planets line up just so we could get 40! But there has to be some other goodies to add to the engine that cost less then 3k to raise the bar!

Someone has tried this on an NA somewhere in the world. We just need to get our desperate hands on 'em!

 

[vreaux728645]

Did you say 600 from an n/a? Show me the website/dynosheet! Can't possibly be streetable if true! The GT version M3 is running around at a little over 450 full race!

 

[TurboSix]

hmm.. just a guess.. but the reason hks makes a cam for turbos and its not listed for na cars is probably because you dont want a TURBO cam in a NA car.. they arent the same, or even close.. for obvious reasons

 

[TTExtreme]

hmm.. just a guess.. but the reason hks makes a cam for turbos and its not listed for na cars is probably because you dont want a TURBO cam in a NA car.. they arent the same, or even close.. for obvious reasons

Jee, thanks for that insight Turbosix! Now can you add something of greater value like WHAT cam would work???

 

[DaveH]

Actually the NA and TT cams are virtually identical. They have the exact same lift and duration, the TT has a slightly different exhaust cam degree spec.

The HKS cam will work on the NA on the intake side, but not on the exhaust side since the NA has a gear on the exhaust cam to drive the distributor.

 

[kdirty130]

Frankenstein...I just went by turbochargers.com to talk to them about that starter turbo kit, but i told them that i had a 94 sc300, instead of a 94 supra n/a so they would not mistake it for a turbo. Well anyway he said that they just sold two kits, one for a n/a supra and the other a sc300. So i guess they are not mistaken about the difference between the turbo version and n/a version manifold. On a side note, he said that the T4 turbo that comes with the kit is good for only 300 hp, but to upgrade the turbo would be an extra $400, which would be good for about 450 hp. Also told me the basic kit is 1500, t4 turbo, manifold, and wastegate (tial). He showed me a manifold they had, not sure what it was for, but it looks like an f-max design type, so i'm guessin that it is the same for us (didn't ask him who made their manifolds).

Well i hope this helps, i am planning to get this kit soon after the new year, so i'll keep you posted!

 

[Frankenstein]

They said they get all of their manifolds from Turbonetics. So I called Turbonetics, and their guy said that they don't make one for the 2JZ-GE.

I don't know who to beleive.

Also, the guy at Turbochargers I talked to said that a T4 would make 400hp - while the T3 would make 300 and the T3/4 would make a little over 300...

So what is the real deal!!!!

 

[kdirty130]

U got me ?! If their tellin you that and they tell me this, screw them. They sound like they just tryin to sell without any real knowledge about the conversion or their own products! I think i might go this route though, f-max manifold ($700 at mmusa.com), a t4 turbo ($500 at majestic turbo), and a deltagate or tial wastegate ($130 used). Which is cheaper than turbochargers.com set up, maybe even less if i can find the other stuff used. Anyway thanks for your info.

 

[Frankenstein]

The other thing that really sux when you don't go with a full kit is the custom fabrication that is going to have to get done. The IC piping and the downpipe aren't too bad, but to get someone to make the Y pipe is going to be a PITA I am sure.

In case my definition of Y pipe is different than yours, I am talking about the pipe that joins the turbo exhaust, wastegate, and down pipe. If turbochargers really wanted to sell a good kit, it would have that pipe in addition to the other 3 parts. Then you could just go to Meineke and get a downpipe made...

I really do think (DAVE H PLEASE JUMP IN) that there is a good, cheap 2 stage way to do this. If you get a wastegate with a soft spring (like 7psi), then you can do the turbo, manifold, wastegate, bov, and downpipe for around $2500 and make about 300hp with the stock fuel system. Then later, you can get a boost controller and a new fuel system for about $1,250 and make 400hp...

 

[kdirty130]

Actually the "y-pipe" dosen't seem too difficult to fabricate. I pieced together a system before with an f-max manifold, t4, and a deltagate wastegate (sold it before i installed) . On the f-max manifold the location of the turbo and the wastegate made for an easy fabrication of the dump tube(y-pipe) to the downpipe. we're on the same page about the basic kit though, and upgrading for higher boost and hp later down the road.

 

[Frankenstein]

This is what I was planning on doing for the oil supply to the turbo as an alternative to tapping the oil pan:

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/pmc_oilcooler.html

Get a remote oil filter relocater, oil cooler, and just put the turbo inline with the whole shooting match for under $200.

Is there any reason that won't work?

 

[kdirty130]

Actually you need to tap the oil pan for the oil return line from the turbo. The return oil works by gravity so it has to go to the oil pan. But, you could use that way for the oil supply side on the turbo (upper inlet).

What are your ideas on the fuel system for the basic kit (5-7 psi)? I am going to use a FMU regulator (vortech or cartech) with an hks afr for minor tuning. Dave H. ,is this a good route to go instead of an aic setup for now?

 

[Frankenstein]

Why do I need gravity for the return? If you look at their setup, they are running an oil cooler which is downhill supply and uphill return. It should all be pressurized, right? It should be able to go:

Adapter --> Turbo
Turbo --> Cooler
Cooler --> Filter
Filter --> Adapter

Right????

As for the fuel system, I was thinking that the AFM could handle 7 psi. Then when I went higher, I would run a couple 720cc injectors and a Rebic IV - or - 6 new 550cc injectors and a VPC.

kdirty - lets keep this dialogue going. If you and I can pick a path and do the upgrade, we could record the parts, cost, and work for all the other NA-T hopefuls.