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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone used one of these? How accurate is it? What about the FJO wideband meter? anyone? Thanks.

Wayne
 

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Check out the FJO Wideband ~$700...less expensive and looks like a more feature rich & accurate product.
 

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I'm running a group buy on the FJO system. I have it built in my T-64 car and it works perfectly. I've already shipped the non-data-logging versions. The next shipment will be in early November and will be the new data-logging version. $665 delivered on the group buy. E-mail me if interested.

BTW, once you get used to knowing what the AFR is, you just can't imagine how you lived without that information -- kinda like getting a tach or boost gauge after not having one. :) Every time you make a pull, you'll find yourself watching the AFR moreso than the tach or boost gauge. It's also interesting that when you make an adjustment on the VPC or fuel controller, you can see the results on the FJO readout, and if it's much of an adjustment, you can feel the difference during subsequent pulls. With the POSSIBLE exception of a boost gauge, this is the most important item you could add to your car for tuning and safety/durability purposes.

Steve
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Boost Junkie said:
I'm running a group buy on the FJO system. I have it built in my T-64 car and it works perfectly. I've already shipped the non-data-logging versions. The next shipment will be in early November and will be the new data-logging version. $665 delivered on the group buy. E-mail me if interested.

BTW, once you get used to knowing what the AFR is, you just can't imagine how you lived without that information -- kinda like getting a tach or boost gauge after not having one. :) Every time you make a pull, you'll find yourself watching the AFR moreso than the tach or boost gauge. It's also interesting that when you make an adjustment on the VPC or fuel controller, you can see the results on the FJO readout, and if it's much of an adjustment, you can feel the difference during subsequent pulls. With the POSSIBLE exception of a boost gauge, this is the most important item you could add to your car for tuning and safety/durability purposes.

Steve
[email protected]
Steve
Are you selling them or you just doing a group buy? I like to know little more detail about FJO or see some pictures. I'll also I like to hear from more than just one person's experience.
Wayne

Wayne
 

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www.fjoinc.com

Watch the magazines in the coming months -- probably early next year. Articles will begin to appear then, and perhaps people who only trust what they read in magazines will finally become awarew that EGTs are a useless tool for AFR tuning and a true wideband (like the FJO) is the only way to go. :)

I'm not quite sure about your other question, but I'm taking orders and shipping the units on the GB. Just doing people a favor, as I'm getting about $10 over my cost on each kit -- not even worth my time and trouble to answer all the questions, handle the checks, repack and ship everything, etc. If I were just trying to make money I'd be better off working on fries at McDonalds. LOL But I'm so gaddam tired of people posting the question, What EGT should I tune my fuel to? that I'm willing to try to help educate some folks by putting some widebands out there so people can see how useless EGT readings are. :)

Steve
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Steve,

have you tried a dyno wideband 02 to compare to the FJO?

how do you think the Motec compares to the FJO? $1200 for the motec vs FJO $700

good job on the investigation... keep us updated
 

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Remember guys, there are basically two wideband O2 sensors... Bosch and UEGO. The Bosch being less accurate and slower, but MUCH less expensive than the UEGO.

The difference between Motec, Autronics, Horiba is simply the reading unit. Is the unit heated, does it have conversions to factor in the current heat of the sensor to the reading, how fast does it update, does it have a bargraph, etc etc.

The question to be asking is which sensor it comes with...
 
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AZWildcat said:
Remember guys, there are basically two wideband O2 sensors... Bosch and UEGO. The Bosch being less accurate and slower, but MUCH less expensive than the UEGO.

The difference between Motec, Autronics, Horiba is simply the reading unit. Is the unit heated, does it have conversions to factor in the current heat of the sensor to the reading, how fast does it update, does it have a bargraph, etc etc.

The question to be asking is which sensor it comes with...
So, does anyone know the answers to those questions? I don't mind paying the price but sure like know if it is any good.
 

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The FJO system used the Horiba laboratory spec unit as a benchmark for performance. The FJO unit generates the same readings as the Horiba or other quality wideband systems. You can use the Horiba or other wideband sensors on the FJO controller if you feel the need to spend more money or feel it gives you some bragging rights. ;) You will have to splice the wires though, because the connectors are different.

Accuracy of the FJO is better than .1 AFR over the range of 10.5:1 to 19.9:1. The sensor is heated, so EGT doesn't affect the reading. If I recall correctly, the update rate is 125 milliseconds.

Steve
 

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I originally tuned my fuel system on a Mustang dyno with an integrated wideband (Horiba, I think, but I'm not certain). When I got the FJO unit I did a quick and dirty install on my car to test the FJO before I reset my ECU (by disconnecting the battery to make the electrical connections for the FJO install) and therefore risked messing up all my settings from the dyno tuning. The FJO gave precisely the same readings as the dyno wideband.

To me, that says something positive for both the FJO unit AND the Mustang dyno. Dynojet brand dynos are generally considered to load the engine to a lesser degree than it will be loaded on the street (at least with a heavy car like the Supra). Therefore, conventional wisdom claims that the AFR will vary from the dyno to the street or track. On the Mustang dyno you program in the vehicle weight and also do a "coast down" test so that the dyno can "learn" the drivetrain characteristics. As a result, the Mustang dyno is supposed to be able to simulate the real-world road or track loads. According to what I saw with the consistency of AFR on the dyno and the road, it seems that the Mustang system works.

BTW, with a Mustang dyno you can hold a constant load on the engine and tune at a steady-state load, or you can program a variety of loads or load change rates. IMO, the Mustang dyno would be a much more verisitle tuning tool than a Dynojet. I guess that's one reason that SP is getting a Mustang. :)

Steve

DOOPRA said:
Steve,

have you tried a dyno wideband 02 to compare to the FJO?

how do you think the Motec compares to the FJO? $1200 for the motec vs FJO $700

good job on the investigation... keep us updated
 

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d

Over the winter im going to be having someone building up my motor,
stronger rods
bore block and put in lighter and stronger pistons
put in 264 cams
single turbo (t66 or t72)
120 shot of nos

I currently have a vpc, dsbc, and have been thinking of getting a motec, which could replace my vpc, dsbc and the need for me to get a afc..What I am wondering is if it would be better for me to just get this fjo wideband 02 and use it for tuning and just get the afc in addition to my vpc, dsbc....There is one dyno around here and I would really rather tune this thing myself...should I just ditch the vpc,dsbc (afc) and go for the complete motec setup or have a vpc, dsbc, afc and get this fjo setup for tuning..
 

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I don't know, but IMO a stand alone engine management system is a big undertaking if you want the car to be entirely civil when finished. It can be done, but someone had better know WTF they are doing, or you'll wind up with more headaches than benefits.

It seems to me that if you do it right, you can make a Supra run and live just fine with the factory ECU and properly selected piggy back electronics. That's not to say that the perfect stand alone couldn't work even better, but there are a lot of stand alone systems out there that are about half-ass working (mostly due to install or tuning issues, not the units themselves), the cars aren't running as strong as well-sorted-out Toyota (or G-force) ECU cars, and the owner is missing a lot of the civility that people take for granted on the Toyota ECU and piggy back electronics.

Just my $.02.

Steve
 

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Boost Junkie said:
The FJO system used the Horiba laboratory spec unit as a benchmark for performance. The FJO unit generates the same readings as the Horiba or other quality wideband systems. You can use the Horiba or other wideband sensors on the FJO controller if you feel the need to spend more money or feel it gives you some bragging rights. ;) You will have to splice the wires though, because the connectors are different.
As I stated before, Horiba doesn't make the sensors! The Horiba brand name only uses the UEGO sensor, which, at your "group buy price", the senor alone would be more than this "FJO" unit...

So what's this about the "same reading" again? At least be straight forward with these people man...
 
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Re: d

sonik said:
I currently have a vpc, dsbc, and have been thinking of getting a motec, which could replace my vpc, dsbc and the need for me to get a afc
Don't do it.

Call Sound Performance. They are working on getting a Speed-Pro system working on a MKIV, and that's what you want. Last I heard it will be a couple months. A bonus, that system has a BUILT IN wideband 02 sensor. Instead of adjusting values to get the A/F where you want it, you just specifiy what A/F you want and the computer does the rest in real time. Basically a all the time closed loop system that can aim for any A/F ratio. Last of all, it will be half the price of a Motec + FJO.
 

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The FJO system uses an NTK brand sensor.

"Same reading" means that the indicated AFR is the same with the FJO system as with the Horiba laboratory spec unit. So what's your question?......

I don't know what brand is on the senor that comes with a Horiba or Motec wideband system. When I said "Horiba" sensor, I of course was referring to the sensor that is used with the Horiba system.

Here's something straight forward: If you don't like the idea of an accurate, affordable wideband system, don't buy it. If you don't believe the FJO claims or the results I've reported on the system I have in my car, don't buy the system. I'm just reporting the real-world results I've seen and the testing that FJO has done. I resent your implication that I'm being something less than straight forward. I don't particularly give a fuck if anyone buys this system or not, but if you want to know what AFR an engine is operating at, this is an affordable and reliable way to get that information.

Steve


AZWildcat said:


As I stated before, Horiba doesn't make the sensors! The Horiba brand name only uses the UEGO sensor, which, at your "group buy price", the senor alone would be more than this "FJO" unit...

So what's this about the "same reading" again? At least be straight forward with these people man...
 
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I have encountered this belief as well, that wideband 02 sensors aren't accurate. I don't get it, as all true wideband systems I have seen have been very accurate. This includes Horiba, Motec, and the built in system of a Speed-Pro (or FAST) fuel system. In every case, you can trust the sensor.

Where did the belief that long sensor life=inaccurate readings come from? There are lots of myths out there.

So many skeptics when it comes to new things in the MKIV community. Every new idea that gets posted here always seems to attract 3 or more "can't work, bad idea, won't happen, it sucks" type of people.

AZWildcat said:
As I stated before, Horiba doesn't make the sensors! The Horiba brand name only uses the UEGO sensor, which, at your "group buy price", the senor alone would be more than this "FJO" unit...

So what's this about the "same reading" again? At least be straight forward with these people man...
Here is the classic MKIV "if it isn't the most expensive possible thing out there, it must suck" attitude. Do you look at results of testing or just price tag when you select a product? He said it matched up perfectly with the Horiba system (which is several thousand dollars at last check). But FJO must suck because the Horiba is more than three times the cost? SIGH. :rolleyes:
 

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True. A lot of old myths seem to lack any foundation, yet most people blindly embrace them. Just like my favorite pet peeve, tuning AFR based on EGTs. (Oh shit! You got me started now. ;) )Where the hell did anyone ever get any fact-based evidence that this could be done with any measure of reliability? Yet soooo many people swear by it. LOL

That is not to say that a very experienced tuner such as SP could not use EGTs along with their vast experience with tuning Supras based upon the look of the exhaust smoke, the sound of the exhaust note, the general feel of the car, the Zodiac chart, the V-angle of the legs on the latest Hustler centerfold (Larry measures that carefully every month), and whatever other black art they may have developed in their thousands of hours of work on Supras, and nail the AFR pretty close without a wideband. But for someone without a LOT of tuning experience to try to go simply on EGT is insane, and people need to realize this for their own damned good! ;)

Steve

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So many skeptics when it comes to new things in the MKIV community. Every new idea that gets posted here always seems to attract 3 or more "can't work, bad idea, won't happen, it sucks" type of people.
 

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Frankly, I haven't really paid attention to the ambient conditions, but my car has posted the same AFR readings day after day. However, it's been warm to hot here since I originally tuned the AFR, and especially since I installed the FJO system. It cooled down considerably a couple days ago, but I haven't made any pulls in the cool weather. And, I haven't really been willing to do any long pulls in 5th or 6th gears due to the poopoo population around here. But, 4th gear dyno readings and 3rd and 4th gear street readings have been essentially identical. In 1st and 2nd gear it blows through the RPM range so fast that you can't really tell what's going on with the AFR. That's where the data-logging would come probably in handy.

On that topic, I wonder what temperature changes will do to the AFR -- specifically, what effect it has on the VPC. On the dyno, charge air temperatures are 100 degrees or so higher than they are on the street (due to heat soak on the dyno). Yet, I was getting the same AFR readings on the street as I did with the Horiba (?) wideband on the dyno. That seems to imply that the VPC makes the right corrections based upon temperature, but there could perhaps be other explanations.

Steve
Grant said:
Steve, do you find that AFR remains the same regardless of outside temp, humidity, barametric pressure, gear, etc?
 

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Steve,

From the pics of the FJO WBO2 sensor, the harness does not look very long...looks too short to reach up into the engine bay.

What's the length of the wires leading from the sensor?

If they were too short, did you have to extend them?

Where did you mount the controller unit...any pics?

Thanks!


BTW - AZWildcat .... Why did you post a *slow* family cabin boat in your sig? I thought your car looked much better!!!! j/k And don't quote the speed...if it's less than 100mph it's slow.
 
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