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That has been around for awhile and I have never heard of any complaints or real problems from other members who had it installed. I know as technology is constantly changing there may be better options out there today vs yesterday but I know I personally would never run one of those and only be locked into a 7mGTE or 1jz option only and certain years only also at that. It is convenient to have it plug n play but most of the time when you start to mod things and change things around, those type of ECU's get in the way vs a ECU that you can pin yourself or have a pigtail adapter you can modify.
 

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I can't think of a single good reason to spend money on a fucking Megasquirt.
 

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I can't think of a single good reason to spend money on a fucking Megasquirt.
word.

In general,a plug and play stand alone is a challenge due to
1. noisy pickup style toyota uses (2 wheels, 3 sensors)
2. oem multiplex ignition
3. ancient brittle wiring and sensors

even real companies with actual developed and supported products have issues with plug n play 7m
bowling and grippo is that even a company ? (not really...)
user experience will vary. yes some guys, somehow make them work very well
a lot of guys nuke 5.3 ls motors with them.
there is a reason most shops don't tune them

time vampire

signed, former ms user/fanboy
 

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While MegaSquirt has been around for a while now it's not nearly as prolific as the rest of the standalone EMS units. I would determine what tuner you will be using to tune your car and find out what they have the most experience with. Some won't touch MS.

And also this:
I can't think of a single good reason to spend money on a fucking Megasquirt.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Never mind ! I founded what I needed !! On a old posting I found . Thanks

Quote Originally Posted by ZaZZn View Post
I have a Perfecttuning.net PNP 7M MS it was TRUELY PNP. I have a stock 7m-gte 100% bone stock on my 60k mile mk3, I unplugged the stock ECU and plugged in the MS ECU. Turned the key, and the car started up and idled just like the stock ecu, what even more crazy is I dind't even have a WB hooked up which is required for VE, also the MAP sensor wasn't even hooked up! Crazy, Sam tuned it so well that it works in the worse conditions on the base map
 

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of course it will be plug and play and run right out of the box. and it will have 0 drive-ability issues and come into boost with perfect afr. the tuning software will install and communicate on the first try - tuner studio / auto tune and veal will be the cats ass and tune your ve table perfect, and did I mention it ships with unicorns that fart gold dust?

if those are the expectations, I suspect you will be disappointed


I see the top of the line ms3 with expansion goes for under 800?? (prebuilt, with nice 1980's ham radio retro case)

if your going to live this dream I say be prepared go balls deep and build the harness, learn 100% about every thing and how its wired / etc. you will need this knowledge to setup the software, so it understands what is physically hooked to the module (ms3)

speaking of modules. hope your prepared to do firmware flashing on that ms3 box because no only do you have to know tuning software, you have to manipulate the software on the actual efi unit (for new features etc. this is not unique to megasquirt but worth pointing out)


now back to that wire harness and setting yourself up to have a fighting chance. 36-1 crank trigger and smart coils would be the route I would take. problem I see with stock CPS isn't so much "hey it does not run"....its loss of sync and timing float. all happening under conditions you cant simulate (aka a full pull, high rpm and load) because you can't have a scope and your head under the hood while your simulating whatever problem (it will have). then throw in the odd ball multiplex oem igniter, why run that when you don't have to bc you have an updated stand alone system

if I could have back the hundreds of hours building (like soldering actual components to a circuit board, old school MS1 "kit" style) / installing / troubleshooting / re-installing /tuning my ms1 fuel only system I would go back and slap myself silly and say NOOOO don't do it!!

my car now runs on a stock ecu + MAFT pro piggy back w speed density conversion. took about 1/20th the time to implement and tune. for under 400 hp I wouldn't bother with a stand alone.
 

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I guess I could elaborate on what turned me off to the megasquirt. yes I had the car running, what I thought was well, with a bpu setup (stock ct26/ ms1 v3 fuel only). ran a 13.7 @105 best time with it

then one night I go out with my wife, maybe 30 miles from the house. did I mention kids at home with a sitter? anyway car looses 02 sensor - fouled / who knows what the fuck but the innova module (feeding ms) went ape shit. I could see the problems on my analog (cabin) 02 gauge and knew to take it easy. well after dinner car ran so poor i honestly thought it was going to lean out and melt / pop a piston on the freeway. apparently ms1 went crazy w/o proper o2 feedback and my tune went way off. so there I was, laptop dead, later at night and in the position of "fuck this i have to drive it home" popping/smelling hot whatever.... make it or not here we go....

long story short I didn't trust the hardware / my tune (fail safes, situations your can't think up until shit happens...) to daily drive that ms around and went a different way
 

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You see that's what I thought when I first bought the unit why would I pay so much for it?

First, it fits in the stock location, connects to the stock harness and includes the MAP sensor needed. If you want to lose the AFM you need to add an Air temp sensor.
It includes a WB controller, along with wifi or Bluetooth to communicate to the laptop or controlling device or IOS/Android. The software to control the ECU and tune is CONSTANTLY upgraded because the platform is opensource and been around forever. VS When AEM decides V1 is finished the ECU gains no abilities no bugs are fixed and you need to spend again for new features like E85 blending.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's the best fastest hardware out there... By far it's not but it gets the job done. If my stock ECU could allow me to adjust the parameters and do VE tuning along with E85 blending, I'd love to just modify that I don't care what hardware runs it as long as it works and is reliable. New is not always better, in fact, look how many damn bugs there were in the infinity and the Pro-EFI before they got stable.

So Sam @ perfect tuning spent A LOT of time to make the stock CPS work correctly and pick up how it should like stock.

The PNP of the harness works along with the extra port which allows for changes like a sequential injection. The side connector on the ECU allows you to hook up other sensors that may be needed such as WB/02 and E85 flex sensors along with things like Seq injection.

Overall, choose what you choose, even an AEM v1 will do the job... Just make sure your tuner (in this case Sam the owner of Perfect Tuning can be hired to remote tune as well) can tune the car, and that it will run.


IMO the biggest difference between the EMU Black vs MSPNP was that I expected some things like the base map to be filled out for a stock running car so I could modify and learn instead of having to completely learn the whole unit top to bottom. Also, the instructions on how to perform the timing sync and everything on the MSPNP manual was VERY easy to follow and 10000000% better than the manual for the EMU Black which lacks depth into why you are doing some things or how to configure specific items.


@Madisonmk3, without a 02 sensor and running VE based mapping will F with things majorly. However, if you haven't tuned with a missing sensor then yes it will run like a bag of shit ;) the MS3 doesn't include 02 controllers by default, also MS3 is only as good as the person that built it which is the big change between more expensive ECU's. Assembled with a warranty is what Perfect tuning offers, so I wouldn't call them Apples to Apples.

Don't get me wrong I love the ECUmaster Black, hardware, there needs some love on the documentation, and on basemaps because LOTS is left to be desired... It's even missing a compare feature for maps so you have no idea what has changed one map vs another.
 

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This PnP really rustled the ecu elitist of this board.

I run the Pnp ms3pro from Perfecttuning on my 1jz swapped mk3. It ran very well after tuning and spending a bit of time perfecting it, no issue with the ECU at all, fit the stock location and you have a extra connector if you want to customize the installation (I went full sequential fuel injection amongs other things). Stock speed signal from the cluster work in the ecu and you can use it to tune boost by gear and launch control, knock sensing works too. I also had no issues with the stock jz crank sensor and cam sensors, no noise or loss of signal in the ms3pro since I shielded the wires.

As with all ecu installation, you are going to spend some time tuning and fiddling with the tune if you want near stock drivability and features, but it is not impossible.

Sure there are some very good ecus out there (haltech, proefi, motec). However, the ms3pro PnP is the best bang for the your money.
 

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This PnP really rustled the ecu elitist of this board.

I run the Pnp ms3pro from Perfecttuning on my 1jz swapped mk3. It ran very well after tuning and spending a bit of time perfecting it, no issue with the ECU at all, fit the stock location and you have a extra connector if you want to customize the installation (I went full sequential fuel injection amongs other things). Stock speed signal from the cluster work in the ecu and you can use it to tune boost by gear and launch control, knock sensing works too. I also had no issues with the stock jz crank sensor and cam sensors, no noise or loss of signal in the ms3pro since I shielded the wires.

As with all ecu installation, you are going to spend some time tuning and fiddling with the tune if you want near stock drivability and features, but it is not impossible.

Sure there are some very good ecus out there (haltech, proefi, motec). However, the ms3pro PnP is the best bang for the your money.
Ms3pro 1400.00 or a haltech for 1700.00.
Go haltech, ms3pro and ecu black lacks tuning point's I have the ecu black and it's pale in terms of my wolf v500.

Cheap ecus works but leaves lots to be desired by ECU with better tuning point's.
 

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Bringing this back form the dead, but honestly qwikstrike, I wouldn't say that... Hardware is hardware, as long as it works and has the inputs and outputs.

The software is the magical part here. Tunerstudio is incredibly easy to learn I have about 4 hours in it so far, and it's been by far WAYYYY easier than the time it took to learn the EMU Black software. The map compare feature is INCREDIBLE compared to NONE with EMUB. Autotune features and all sorts of boost control/e85 control launch controls... It's really crazy how much this ECU can do for the money. Honestly, I think the majority of people who say bad things about this easy haven't ever used it or the software, or if they did they instantly hated it because "it was cheap DIY shit" the MS3 Pro's are generally PNP offerings that are on par with the features of other ECMs.

The perfect tuning version has the barometric meter, wb02, Bluetooth, and map sensor all built-in already on top of the MS3 pro board. All I can say is so far, I'm happy. It does what I want and it fits like stock, keeping my really nice 91 looking nice and no hack jobs.
 

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Bringing this back form the dead, but honestly qwikstrike, I wouldn't say that... Hardware is hardware, as long as it works and has the inputs and outputs.

The software is the magical part here. Tunerstudio is incredibly easy to learn I have about 4 hours in it so far, and it's been by far WAYYYY easier than the time it took to learn the EMU Black software. The map compare feature is INCREDIBLE compared to NONE with EMUB. Autotune features and all sorts of boost control/e85 control launch controls... It's really crazy how much this ECU can do for the money. Honestly, I think the majority of people who say bad things about this easy haven't ever used it or the software, or if they did they instantly hated it because "it was cheap DIY shit" the MS3 Pro's are generally PNP offerings that are on par with the features of other ECMs.

The perfect tuning version has the barometric meter, wb02, Bluetooth, and map sensor all built-in already on top of the MS3 pro board. All I can say is so far, I'm happy. It does what I want and it fits like stock, keeping my really nice 91 looking nice and no hack jobs.
Hard ware aside Eric its all about points of tuning. The Tuning maps for Haltech has finer more precise tuning rpms than the other. I won't debate the merits of the EMU BLACK just yet.

CHEAP and functional vs costly, and more capable and effective. I had a hard time trying to fine tune my EMU BLACK to the Rpm range points of by Wolf V 500. I have the Wolf Tuner Sport, and I am probably going Haltech to get volumetric tuning.
 

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The MS3 Pro module board is not the same class as MS3. You are not doing janky soldering. This is a proper board only missing some of the other sensors. MS3Pro Module | Power of MS3Pro for your custom ECU

Madison complaining about the ECU leaving him stranded is just bad tuning or bad assembly. Traditional standalone does not rely on someone to build them. The MS3-PRO is like a traditional in that sense because it's fully assembled with surface mounted chips.

Adding a daughterboard that has all the other sensors in an OEM fashion is what Perfect Tuning did. He added baro sensor, map, Bluetooth, WB02 (wifi optional). The only thing missing is IMO is optional EGT. But this can easily be added in his box as there is sufficient space to add this. Also because it's highly configurable inside I can do things that I could not with the ECUmasters PNP adapter where all the links are part of the PCB. There is an expansion port on the side meaning I can add sensors without hacking up the stock harness, or without hacking anything.

If you are going all out, then certainly there are options that have more outputs inputs and may meet your needs better.

I'm just saying for the 7m-GTE, stock computer is junk when it comes to using alphabet soup to get around the limitations. In my case I'm on a standalone FAR before anyone usually gets one, since I'm on a CT26 upgrade, stock airbox, and was stock intercooler until a few nights ago.

My 91 will have very little mods in terms of going all out and having a controllable ECU, which did not hack up the stock harness was extremely important to me since my 91 is a 65k mile gem which has original paint, interior and is in mint condition so all modifications that I do cannot be detected by just looking at the car (except for the Sparco now).

16x16 map has put people way past the 9's, I'll be lucky if my car hits 11's there is plenty of resolution for what I'm doing revving to 6800 rpm ;)

I even have the stock airbox on my car, so you can see what I'm talking about when I say no heavy modifications. Anyways, getting the ECU up and running and running decently under boost was the easiest experience I've ever had on ANY EMS.

There are so many videos around which freely explain this information since the roots were from people who wanted to share the knowledge. When I was searching for ECU masters stuff, it was pretty much nonexistent 3 years ago. I still have the black and it's a GREAT ecu, but the learning curve was much harder IMO and the software just wasn't nearly as mature as tunerstudio.

Total time invested to get a running car and boosting 6-8 hours. 3 of them just messing with the triggers. The base map included not only started the car, but also idled and drove pretty nice. I then had a 1.2 hr session with Sam who took care of the rest of what I didn't change. It's not perfect yet as I'm sure there is a ton of power left in there, but I'll say man it was so easy comparatively vs the AEM v1 and ECUmaster Black.

MS3 is VE based tuning as well, FYI simple software options make that possible. The best thing I loved is the search feature in the top right. Again, this is all moot if you are not tuning the car yourself since they all do the same shit and it's your turners preference which makes the choices in the end.
 

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Zazzn said : "Madison complaining about the ECU leaving him stranded is just bad tuning or bad assembly. "


A little of each and also a bit of bad product imho. I was dealing with megasquirt OG version 1, on a fuel only implementation. to compare the current (machine built I hope) pro v3 to this original disaster of a product is a bit like saying sony betamax sucked so their blue ray player sucks too.

what left a bad taste and still does all these years later was I waited until the new v3 pcb board came out before I went in on the megasquirt. second revision of the circuit board, fixes so much wrong with 2.2 right....

well you spend hours assembling it (soldering resistors, capacitors etc) to find out it works like crap for very simple reasons. reasons that didn't involve your assembly of the product. more like a shitty ground path design and a piss poor 12v feed to the injectors. Cut a trace on the pcb, add a wire here and presto, it works. like you build the thing to find out it works poor, then (as a user) you on your own to discover the hacks that make it functional. all on the 2nd version of the pcb. I get it, Im subscribing to the broken window theroy: ie things were certainly wrong over at bowling and grippo during megasquirt one days.....so some of that shitstorm may still persist

I understand installing a new ecu on the old wiring harness works for many.... but IMHO to get full bang for you buck out of a stand alone you need 2 things : 1) remove the old wire harness so all the crusty old wiring and connectors are gone and 2) ditch the multiplex igniter and setup for modern COP.

should add I dont disagree with what your saying Zazzn.... most any stand alones will function better than old school tccs ecu and I get why these are attractive to some ppl because you don't have to hack the car up.
 

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The MS3 Pro module board is not the same class as MS3. You are not doing janky soldering. This is a proper board only missing some of the other sensors. MS3Pro Module | Power of MS3Pro for your custom ECU

Madison complaining about the ECU leaving him stranded is just bad tuning or bad assembly. Traditional standalone does not rely on someone to build them. The MS3-PRO is like a traditional in that sense because it's fully assembled with surface mounted chips.

Adding a daughterboard that has all the other sensors in an OEM fashion is what Perfect Tuning did. He added baro sensor, map, Bluetooth, WB02 (wifi optional). The only thing missing is IMO is optional EGT. But this can easily be added in his box as there is sufficient space to add this. Also because it's highly configurable inside I can do things that I could not with the ECUmasters PNP adapter where all the links are part of the PCB. There is an expansion port on the side meaning I can add sensors without hacking up the stock harness, or without hacking anything.

If you are going all out, then certainly there are options that have more outputs inputs and may meet your needs better.

I'm just saying for the 7m-GTE, stock computer is junk when it comes to using alphabet soup to get around the limitations. In my case I'm on a standalone FAR before anyone usually gets one, since I'm on a CT26 upgrade, stock airbox, and was stock intercooler until a few nights ago.

So, what I'm reading is that you are on an MS3Pro standalone running a stock CT26, or on an upgraded CT26? Is that correct? If so, what can you share about drivability and numbers?

I've often wondered what old turbo engines, like the 7M-GTE, can do numbers wise/power under the curve using a modern ECU. Then once those numbers are established, see what changes, if any, there are from updating the ignition and AFM. Essentially, I'd like to see what can be had from a "stock" CT-26 powered 7M. After all that, then 57-1 CT-26 with Mamba upgrades, etc. I like the concept of potentiality......
 

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Yep I hear you on the issues, but that's why the MS3 PRO is great, it doesn't have that stupidity. There is no soldering, no fooling around. It's a full-fledged ECM package. If you do the MS3 PNP evo or in this case the perfecttuning.net unit. No issues in my case, none of that crap you are complaining about, but yes, regardless of what you choose a crank trigger and cam sensor will always be a better solution to the CPS.
 

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So, what I'm reading is that you are on an MS3Pro standalone running a stock CT26, or on an upgraded CT26? Is that correct? If so, what can you share about drivability and numbers?

I've often wondered what old turbo engines, like the 7M-GTE, can do numbers-wise/power under the curve using a modern ECU. Then once those numbers are established, see what changes, if any, there are from updating the ignition and AFM. Essentially, I'd like to see what can be had from a "stock" CT-26 powered 7M. After all that, then 57-1 CT-26 with Mamba upgrades, etc. I like the concept of potentiality......
Well, I don't think I'll be putting the stock CT back in too much work. I also installed a spearco intercooler. So far the driveability is amazing. Like stock... no joke.

I'm trying to dial in the timing right now and figure out numbers. I know I'm making way less torque because my stock clutch is no longer slipping. Even with about 5-6 more PSI of boost. I've got to do a pressure test as I found out my stock BOV was broken and just leaking charged air. Also hear some of the intercooler pipes squealing as the worm gear clamps I have (ones that don't eat into silicon) just aren't strong enough, so I ordered some T-bolts. (didn't want it to look non stock) I'm also on the stock airbox and AFM. I can rid my self of the AFM if I get a temp sensor as the unit uses the stock AFM temp sensor.

I suspect the gains will be minimal since the stock ECU has much better knock control that any EMS I've seen. Most EMS's have a weak knock control system, or people just don't know how to tune and set them up. (mostly the latter)
 

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So driveability has been great, tuning was ultra easy with ts and analyze live which can be live or off datalogged captured logs. I have had some trouble getting the 850s dialed in becuase I didn't know the dead times and what not. But think I have it all figured out. I haven't had a real tuner do anything for me but so far it drives great boosts hard.. while it did, stock clutch didn't last but 2 weeks lol. So now I can't go over 3 psi without it slipping. So going to try to get a clutch job done tomorrow along with fuel pump then I can really push it
 

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@ZaZZn

honestly i would stick with the OEM intake filter, it is at least pulling filtered air from a cooler area of the car (instead of the inferno of the engine bay).
the Temp sensor of the AFM is fine.

as mentioned on the other place, for knock/detonation, you want to use a set of detonation cans (ie Tuner Nerd, Plex Knock Monitor, Link G4 Knock Block etc) and essentially introduce knock/detonation at light loads and then bring it back a couple of degrees from that point. you would need a load bearing dyno or someone to tune while you drive.
 
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