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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, to complement this thread I thought I'd post up my dyno numbers since I finally managed to get to the dyno and pull the data off :) I have internal logs of the pull(s) from the AEM, the mapping, and the DynoJet data file available for anyone that wants them. :D This was a 34PSI pull and IMO the cams were probably choking it a bit. I have a set of 264 cams, a ported head from HeadGames, and a modified intake from JDMFantasy w\Q45 TB for the car. Oh yeah and 96lb injectors too! Seems I was hitting about 90% duty :lol: I will try to test the intake seperately followed by the head and cams together. I may also be running the bigger injectors as secondary injectors on C16 from a seperate fuel system - still researching that. This was a mix of 93, some 112, and 5 gallons of C16. Longblock is STOCK, never had the valvecovers off. Need to check leakdown and compression - 80K+ on the motor.
 

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I"m watching your tun ability, and you are great!
So my car is now in transformation from BPU to APU using BL T67Ptrim and BL 75lbs Fuelkit. Now the question: Using Map-ECU for fuel controling (maf removing) and LM1 (for analyze) .... what can be wrong? As i read you threads AEM will take more power because more power is in timing and A/F ratio is only good for safe EGT and keeps not so much power, right?
Do you have any instructions for my? Some tips and tricks? Or i schloud simply buy AEM?
My idea was to go APU, try to tune with relative simple map-ecu (i can understand what i am doing with it fine) and if i will grow up with my tuning ability i will went to AEM... what do you think , is it good idea? thanx for some constructive reply
 

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Nice info and right up as always BLKMGK, I'm not one of those people that is going to say well this person made this much power and this boost level with the same turbo etc. etc. but get ready for those type of replies to your thread ! Great numbers and very safe/rich tuning, makes me wonder how much more power is in their leaning it out a little , but safer is better than sorry ! Just so I understand, is the ported head and intake on the car in this graph/pull or not ? Keep up the good work and keep the knowledge/experiences coming !
 

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pass1914 said:
Nice info and right up as always BLKMGK, I'm not one of those people that is going to say well this person made this much power and this boost level with the same turbo etc. etc. but get ready for those type of replies to your thread ! Great numbers and very safe/rich tuning, makes me wonder how much more power is in their leaning it out a little , but safer is better than sorry ! Just so I understand, is the ported head and intake on the car in this graph/pull or not ? Keep up the good work and keep the knowledge/experiences coming !
I am almost positive he is going to test the intake manifold, the cams and headwork out for us. This run was WITHOUT those pieces meaning he even still has stock cams!:)

Nice BLK...did you make runs at different boost levels to see how much it was gaining say going from 30-34lbs?


Take Care
 

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AMAZING NUMBERS. Can't wait to see your gains with those other parts. I love your threads because you really go into details on everything, and no BS.

Steve K.
 

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Very nice numbers. :)

I’m looking forward to seeing your gains from the head, cams, and the intake.
 

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TT_6SPD_95 said:
I am almost positive he is going to test the intake manifold, the cams and headwork out for us. This run was WITHOUT those pieces meaning he even still has stock cams!:)

Nice BLK...did you make runs at different boost levels to see how much it was gaining say going from 30-34lbs?


Take Care
Thats for the clarification Tony, even more impressive now knowing its still stock items ! Hey any new numbers from you yet Tony, Jeff @ Induction speaks highly and I've been trying to make a decision on a turbo but still torn between 70 & 71, need too see the full potential/spool etc on that turbo so i can calculate if it will meet my low & high boost goals through the automatic ? PM me if you want to keep your results private, i can surely understand ! Sorry about the driveshaft mishap, hope all is now well and back together !
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've honestly not worked with a MAP ECU. The shop that I work with has once on an OBD-II car. After quite a bit of time on the dyno the car was doing great - until they drove it. It proceeded to go progressively leaner and it turns out the OBD-II was somehow learning fuel trims. They were told that they had to go OBD-I in order to solve this. They solved it with an AEM :lol: They may have had much better luck with an OBD-I computer, I don't know. I have never laid my hands on a MAP ECU so I cannot speak from personal experience but it may very well teach you some tuning basics. I would suspect that moving from a device which has no ignition control and can only really control fuel second hand to a device with full control would be like a breath of fresh air. I have little doubt that the MAP ECU is easier to learn than the AEM however the AEM does have a great deal of user support. I would suggest at least downloading the AEM software from their forum, playing with it, and reading all of the docs to get a handle on what it can do. If you're overwhelmed then you will know prior to spending money what you would be getting into.

These runs were with a stock longblock - no cams, no headwork, no intake. My mods are an AEM, Greddy 4ROW, 72lb injectors w\dual walbros, AEM boost control, Greddy header from a T78, 71GTQ from Boost Logic, 4inch DP from Boost Logic (fit great!), 4inch exhaust from WOTM (also fit great but a bit loud!). Boost Logic SFI damper, PWR radiator from MOHD, and a rewound OEM alternator. I also have a RaceLogic Traction Control box onboard to save my ass! My boost and EGT gauge are toasted:mad: but I still have a working differential fuel pressure gauge - volume was fine but duty cycle was HIGH :eek: I think that's all the important stuff...

I have a run previous to this with 3degrees less timing and it was down 20RWHP and 16ftlbs. I have a lower boost run prior to that that was down a bit more. My boost peaked at 323KPA at 5100RPMS and then tapered off at least 10KPA right after and held steady. My W/G spring is 1.2BAR and the solenoid was completely closed. I suspect that my W/G cracked open, I'll be moving a pressure hose in the future from the intake to the cold side of the turbo in order to gain a litle more pressure to hold the W/G closed. :)

What I expect to get from upcoming mods is better VE. I expect I won't be able to hold this boost level without a better W/G spring at least and it's possible I may run this turbo out of breath! I honestly don't want to run this much boost but I wanted a big number :D I want to see this number and hopefully better at a lower boost level. Judging from the dynos of others I may have a motor that's hurting some - I need to do a leakdown and compression test but haven't had time. Doing it by yourself is a PITA! Plus I've never done a leakdown, I do have the tool though - need to get another compression tester.

Oh, no meth on these runs - I had C16 in there. Jason S. was in town doing some training that I attended, my car was the dyno pig. He and I worked together on this tune and he totally redid my boost control. After adding 3 degrees of timing, seeing the power afterwards, and the numbers I wanted we stopped - there MIGHT have been more power but this wasn't really a tuning session so much as a learning session. The A/F waqs a bit whacky, lean in one area, rich in another. I have made some changes in the mapping afterwards in order to try and correct this. Going rich may have cost me SOME power but I wouldn't expect more than about 10RWHP or so tops. You can look at the other dyno I posted for a stock twin car to see what I can do when I'm concentrating on A/F curve ;)

My thanks to Howard at AR Fabrication in Winchester for lots of dyno time, C16 race gas, and some upcoming fabrication. If I do a dual fuel system Howard will be the guy modifying my intake and possibly building my fuel cell. He's done LOTS of AWD DSM and Honda work. Lately he's been doing LOTS of Supra work with my help tuning them - it's amazing the work done elsewhere that's come in. Wish I'd known him before buying my FMIC as he builds some NICE intercoolers. Vroom!

Keep the questions coming, I'll answer all that I can!
 

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Extremely nice numbers. Would you mind posting a
brief SOTP comparo between your current set-up and
your t-78 turbo? Thanks.
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
WayneCar said:
Extremely nice numbers. Would you mind posting a
brief SOTP comparo between your current set-up and
your t-78 turbo? Thanks.
Wayne
Normally I drive around on lower boost with methanol. I never maxxed out my T78 on race gas but it did take me to a high ten on a pump gas tune :) I figure that power is pretty close at that level which is 1.7BAR. At higher pressure levels is where the 71GTQ is going to be moving more air IMO.

This turbo lags a little more than my T78. My T78's boost went vertical at 4200RPMs, this one is more like 4600RPMs. That IS noticable on the street and takes getting used to. The T78 hit like a Mack truck, this turbo is MUCH smoother. I will try to attach a pic of the log from the dyno pull so you can see the boost curve. Even down at 3800RPMs I DO have boost and it's pretty driveable but since it hits smoothly you're not always aware of the boost - unless you blow an IC hose :eek:

This turbo doesn't have the anti-surge housing and it also has one of those damned elbows meant for running the IC pipe through the fender that I need to remove so that might also help. I MAY aso try a smaller turbo but I suspect it wouldn't be able to make this much power - I'm not sure. For street driving at low boost quicker spool might be nice. I'm going to try some tricks with the AEM to gain spool on the street (anti-lag) to see how it feels. With my exhaust I can CLEARLY hear the turbo spooling up and down - it's wild! I might be able to gain spool changing the hotside housing (.81 now I THINK) but I've obviously not yet tried this and am not sure of the effects on power output if I do.

On 30PSI with normal Nitto 555 275 series street tires I have broken the tires loose at 90+MPH passing someone in 3rd gear on the highway. DRs and having the RaceLogic turned on (ahem) would probably have solved that or at least helped. Nitto DRs go on this week for the season. :) At this boost level using race gas the car is a BLAST! I'm not comfortable running this much power with meth and pump but others do. I'm not comfortable puttering around on $9 a gallon gas though and my W/B O2 doesn't like the lead either. Having this much power is why I'm even considering a dual fuel system so I can putter around on unleaded pump and then have race gas levels when I go WOT - we'll see how the dollars work out. The biggest concern doing this other than fuel storage safety is that I'll have to pair the secondary injectors since I've only got 10injector drivers. I think that this will be fine considering the RPMs we're talking about. Arnout has an alternate idea that I may also try if pairing doesn't work - we're going to be doing a bunch of plug reading!

P.S. "Brief"?! You're kidding right? :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
The grey line in the middle graph is Load in KPA, the red line is where my cursor is and the numbers on the right are displaying what's going on at that point. You can see boost swelled then fell off, 34PSI is my peak number - my average is lower I'd expect. The red and yellow at the bottom is noise from the knock sensors, there's ONE spike there midway up that may be a brief knock spike - I pulled a small amount of timing there in my current mapping just in case :D The top graph is RPM and I let off around 7400RPMs. In the middle you can also see timing - high going down at torque peak\max VE and then rising at VE falls off again.

Hope that helps folks understand what was going on who don't have the AEM software to look at my logs. This is one of the reasons why I'm a BIG fan of the AEM - I know EXACTLY what occured on this pull so there's no guessing or having people trying to watch gauges for me. This is only SOME of the data I gathered on these pulls ;)

P.S. Looking closer that wasn't the 700RWHP run. The one attached to THIS message IS. Boost hangs in a little longer :) I've aloso added IAT to this one - we did NOT have much airflow on the dyno! Temp is Celcius and in green. You will note that this one ALSO has a little spike on the knock sensor, when it's consistant you know it's something like a W/G or actual knock. On the dyno my knock correction is turned off to ease tuning, a single ping like that is no biggie but it wasn't ignored:cool:
 

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BLK,

As always good stuff from you, a real resource right here guys and gals. In reading through your descriptions, I'm not so sure your motor is tired, although it may be. Yes, guys have made a lot more power at 34 psi with your turbo, but I'm not sure if many of them have been on the stock long block. I suspect that, with the cams and headwork, those numbers will be quite impressive and it's not as though the ones you posted aren't.

That's very good torque number for our motors, especially with that whp number. My guess is, with your new head and cams, this could go down a bit or, more likely, will not be in the same proportion as it currently is. Presently, your torque is about 93% of your whp because of the stock cams. I'd expect to see that percentage drop some with the head and cams and, possibly, drop some more with your new intake. With head, cams and a new intake, it will be more difficult for you to hit 34 psi and hold it. But, then again, it probably will not be necessary.

All of the above to say there may be nothing wrong with your motor that a few judicious mods won't fix. I'm guessing you'll have that BIG number you've been looking for. Good luck and keep us posted.

Ken.
 

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do you plan on trying a dyno run with the meth on? i'm curious what kind of timing you'd be able to run with the meth and some mixed gas....

good write up.

jay
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ken, if you look just a few posts down you'll see a comparison of a car with nearly the same setup before and after cams at a lower level of boost. I seem to be off a bit from those numbers although I'd REALLY like to see some AEM logs of the stock cam pulls for comparison's sake. That car is VERY close to my setup with perhaps a different intercooler. I'd actually love to get the dyno data to put the runs side by side as to look at them they look VERY close to one another. The cams do seem to be choking me at this point though. It's funny though - I don't actually have a power goal for the car or a time either although a nice fat mid 10 would be good. I'll do the head, cams, intake, injectors and probably call it a day somewhere just North of 800RWHP. I don't see myself going to a larger turbo with it's attendant lag anytime soon, I might even try a smaller 66mm turbo. I doubt I'd go to a larger set of cams either and my head will already be ported. I'm simply going to optimize what I have, try to ensure it's healthy, and enjoy it. Suspension and wheels will likely come before any radical power changes.

Meth - I don't know that I have any plans to do meth pulls with a mix of pump and race gas. Pump and meth maybe but not really soon. My next change will be my intake and T/B with the possible addition of a secondary fuel system running C16. I considered running meth as my secondary but the corrosiveness and volume needed makes that pretty unlikely at this point. There's a slim chance I'll swap my existing meth nozzle for a big injector for better control - I've not yet decided.
 

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Great numbers BlkMgk, especially on the torque side :)

There was a discussion a few years back regarding cam's. I remember a few of the guys running SP74's and tapping out around low 700whp(lower then yours). IMO, the cam's are holding you back a good bit. I'm sure you'll be posting up 800+ dyno numbers in the near future. I hope to see torque near 700 ;)
 
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