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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey,

I currently have a 89T and it has crossed my mind to start a 600hp buildup on her.

Now, I would get an N/A longblock for cheap. I would like to keep the downtime on my car as short as possible and would like to build the N/A block.

Basicly the Turbo and N/A engines are the same, except no oilsquirters and only one knock sensor. You can drill the second knock sensor and install it, but how neccessary are the oilsquirters?? You could machine them to the NA crank right? But is this an neccessity? Basicly the oilpressure would be better without the oilsquirters because you lose some oilpressure through the squirters. But is the cooling effect of the oilsquirters more important?

Here's what I've thought of using:

ROSS or JE-pistons 1mm oversize with rings
Eagle rods
All new engine bearings, clevite 77. (Or should I just use Toyota bearings???)
2.0mm MHG
New oilpump
New waterpump
Engine gasket set + cambelt
Remote oilfilter
Ported and flowed N/A head with stock valves.

Am I missing something?

Also I'm thinking of using an MAP ECU, 550cc injectors, 255 Walbro, Aeromotive FPR, Ebay header + Ebay 50mm wg and a Holset HX40 Turbo. Should be a nice budget setup and capable of 500rwhp+.

Any thoughts? :)

Krister
 

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SP74HO
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1,143 Posts
It would really be better to start with a T block! You will have to also make a provision for oil supply and return for the turbo.
 

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927 Posts
Turbo blocks are cheap anyways, why not just go with one in the first place?
And..MAP ecu isn't worth the money. Go with a maf-t or whatever instead.
If you want 600rwhp I would go dual walbro...
 

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Certified Supra Nut :P
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2,001 Posts
There are a few ways to look at this. One, and most importantly. If you want to make 600+ hp and do it even mildly reliably, starting your project by skimping on the block to save a few bucks not only shows a lack of common sense, but also a lack of dedication to the project.

The money you save in getting a cheap N/A block will cost you more getting the squirter machined in and the knock sensor tapped. The oil squirters are a very large benefit to piston cooling and is quite beneficiary on a high horsepower engine. You could rifle drill the rods, but squirters work better and come stock on a turbo block anyway.

That aside, using a turbo built for a diesel on a gas engine is not a good idea. Diesel engines run much cooler on the exhaust side than gas engines and the turbo is simply not built to withstand those kinds of heat. Also the flow characteristics of a diesel turbo most likely will not fit you gas powered engine at all.

Those two facts stated, you might want to put a whole lot more thought into this endeavor before getting started. Do a lot of research, work out a good plan, put together the funds and then go at it. good luck.
 

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Street Sleeper
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1,114 Posts
sammydafish said:
There are a few ways to look at this. One, and most importantly. If you want to make 600+ hp and do it even mildly reliably, starting your project by skimping on the block to save a few bucks not only shows a lack of common sense, but also a lack of dedication to the project.

The money you save in getting a cheap N/A block will cost you more getting the squirter machined in and the knock sensor tapped. The oil squirters are a very large benefit to piston cooling and is quite beneficiary on a high horsepower engine. You could rifle drill the rods, but squirters work better and come stock on a turbo block anyway.

That aside, using a turbo built for a diesel on a gas engine is not a good idea. Diesel engines run much cooler on the exhaust side than gas engines and the turbo is simply not built to withstand those kinds of heat. Also the flow characteristics of a diesel turbo most likely will not fit you gas powered engine at all.

Those two facts stated, you might want to put a whole lot more thought into this endeavor before getting started. Do a lot of research, work out a good plan, put together the funds and then go at it. good luck.
Sound advice :bigthumb:
 

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1/2 Na-T Project
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987 Posts
fstoy said:
It would really be better to start with a T block! You will have to also make a provision for oil supply and return for the turbo.
Thats easy, T off the oil pressure sender and weld a return bung onto your oil pan. Rabidchimp.com makes a nice looking set of oil lines for the 7MGE and CT-26 combo.

Edit: I do agree with Sammy though. I don't know of many people putting those types of numbers out on an N/A block without the oil squirters, could work but do you really want to find out the hard way?
 

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MUDKIP FARMER
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2,709 Posts
I also recommend starting with a turbo block. You can pick them up for cheap, and already have the engine out and ready to work on :)
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
sammydafish said:
There are a few ways to look at this. One, and most importantly. If you want to make 600+ hp and do it even mildly reliably, starting your project by skimping on the block to save a few bucks not only shows a lack of common sense, but also a lack of dedication to the project.

The money you save in getting a cheap N/A block will cost you more getting the squirter machined in and the knock sensor tapped. The oil squirters are a very large benefit to piston cooling and is quite beneficiary on a high horsepower engine. You could rifle drill the rods, but squirters work better and come stock on a turbo block anyway.

That aside, using a turbo built for a diesel on a gas engine is not a good idea. Diesel engines run much cooler on the exhaust side than gas engines and the turbo is simply not built to withstand those kinds of heat. Also the flow characteristics of a diesel turbo most likely will not fit you gas powered engine at all.

Those two facts stated, you might want to put a whole lot more thought into this endeavor before getting started. Do a lot of research, work out a good plan, put together the funds and then go at it. good luck.
First of all, I am not in the USA, and the only GTE-blocks we can get here are ones with rodknock or other BHG damage, I can also buy an import engine but that will cost me 1500Euro (1800USD) and that will be the whole engine, I already have an N/A head so I'd only need the shortblock.

I understand that there are no oilsquirters and no oilsource or return for the turbo. But there are NA-T's around and they work, why wouldnt it work on this setup? This is why I made this thread to get more info weather to buildup the N/A block or not. There is a member that is putting 800rwhp with a stockish 2JZ-NA engine and was thinking that maby the 7M N/A was capable of the same thing.

Using a dieseltrucks turbo is foolish and will not work on a gas engine? That is just ignorant :rolleyes: FYI most of the bigger Garret GT-series turbos were originally designed to diesel engines, several members here are using them in Supras with great success.

In Europe it is very popular to use Holset HX-series turbos in high hp gas street- and even racecars. The main difference in Turbos originally designed to diesel engines, is the exhaust housing A/R is bigger. FYI you can get smaller exhaust housings to Holset turbos to work better in gasoline cars. You can even make hybrid turbochargers and fit an exhaust housing from a Garret series Turbo if you like. Oh yeah, did I mention that they cost half less than PTE or ITS turbos? Please, if you are just guessing about stuff like that, please dont reply, you are giving wrong information to other forum members, do more research before posting.

Here's a few good threads for you to read about "POS" diesel turbos:
Swedish 7MGTE 748hp/1000Nm with a Holset HX50
DSM Tuners thread on Holset turbos

Krister
 

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I'm using a GE block and I'm making nearly 600hp on it. I'm also a believer in that I would rather have the oil pressure to the bearings than pissing it out against a piston. It's fine for crappy cast pistons but forged ones don't need it so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hennie Marais said:
I'm using a GE block and I'm making nearly 600hp on it. I'm also a believer in that I would rather have the oil pressure to the bearings than pissing it out against a piston. It's fine for crappy cast pistons but forged ones don't need it so much.
Finally some first hand experience and no guessing!! :)

Care to share your mods? Where have you tapped the turbo oilfeed and drain?

Krister
 

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Hennie Marais said:
I'm using a GE block and I'm making nearly 600hp on it. I'm also a believer in that I would rather have the oil pressure to the bearings than pissing it out against a piston. It's fine for crappy cast pistons but forged ones don't need it so much.

iam also running a n/a block. wihtout no problem. 600hp is my gold too. more than six year,n/a + boost. 11sec on a roto master diesel turbo. now iam going
for 10sec.
 

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Hennie Marais said:
I'm using a GE block and I'm making nearly 600hp on it. I'm also a believer in that I would rather have the oil pressure to the bearings than pissing it out against a piston. It's fine for crappy cast pistons but forged ones don't need it so much.

Got a Dyno chart?


Forged pistons benefit from cooling just as well as cast ones do, for the same reasons.

Even with oil squirters, you still have plenty of oil pressure to the bearings.

Unless you just can't find a GTE block, there is no reason to use a NA block.
 

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Krister said:
Finally some first hand experience and no guessing!! :)

Care to share your mods? Where have you tapped the turbo oilfeed and drain?

Krister
Oil feed is where the oil sensor was, the sensor was moved near the rear of the block. The return is in the sump, I drilled the part out where the cooler return was.

Other mods on the engine are:
T66 turbo p-trim 1.00:1 ratio housing(mostly for race use), custom intake manifold, 268 deg 8.6mm lift cams. 2mm oversize valves. Forged pistons but with low comp ratio for high boost 7.5:1. ported and flowed head. Perf valvesprings. light flywheel. Balanced. I'm running a distributor with MSD Digital6+ box and blaster 3 coil. Stand alone fuel management system. and some other mods.
 
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I’m not sure if it is commonly known, but many early jdm GTE engines lack the oil squirters from the factory. I was quite disappointed when I tore down the block only to see the bare oil squirter bosses :(. It seems to me that the oil squirters are worth it for a degree of detonation prevention. It stands to logic that one should find the best possible block to build off of. The cost of machine work on a single block far outweighs the change you would dish out for a GTE block...
 

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Robbman said:
Got a Dyno chart?


Forged pistons benefit from cooling just as well as cast ones do, for the same reasons.

Even with oil squirters, you still have plenty of oil pressure to the bearings.

Unless you just can't find a GTE block, there is no reason to use a NA block.
you must be on a crusade against the n/a block
 
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