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www.ziptieracing.com
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hot damn. that is nuts. Have you had that on a road race engine yet?

Did you ever experience oil starvation to make this a requirement on the track?
 

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Wow, that looks awesome. But like Matt asked, has this been shown to be needed in a roadracing car? OTOH, I realize ultimate oiling can't be bad for any engine.

I can see if you're boosting ~60psi you would need a serious oiling system like this.
 

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.928 RWHP & Climing!
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Wow, that looks awesome. But like Matt asked, has this been shown to be needed in a roadracing car? OTOH, I realize ultimate oiling can't be bad for any engine.

I can see if you're boosting ~60psi you would need a serious oiling system like this.
Nick, to my understanding, dry sumps are even more important for Road racing than drag racing. Is not a matter of oil pressure, is a matter of constant oil supply.

Most of the time in road racing, you're pulling lateral Gs and with and oil sump, your conventional oil pump might starve for oil where the dry sump won't have any issues.


Miguel.
 

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Nick, to my understanding, dry sumps are even more important for Road racing than drag racing. Is not a matter of oil pressure, is a matter of constant oil supply.

Most of the time in road racing, you're pulling lateral Gs and with and oil sump, your conventional oil pump might starve for oil where the dry sump won't have any issues.


Miguel.
Thanks, Miguel. I understand the g's effect on lubrication, but many hardcore racecars use baffled oil pans and strategically designed oil pickups without a need for dry sump. But it does seem some cars are more prone to needing it than others.


Another question I have: does this reduce the size of the oil pan and hardware hanging below the motor so it might allow dropping the motor a couple inches? That would be cool in a racecar!
 

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.928 RWHP & Climing!
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Thanks, Miguel. I understand the g's effect on lubrication, but many hardcore racecars use baffled oil pans and strategically designed oil pickups without a need for dry sump. But it does seem some cars are more prone to needing it than others.


Another question I have: does this reduce the size of the oil pan and hardware hanging below the motor so it might allow dropping the motor a couple inches? That would be cool in a racecar!
Yes and yes.

First, you are right about baffles, but dry sump eliminates the need for all that and improves on the idea. Is A LOT more money, but you should have better engine response without the oil robbing power from the crank and as I said before constant oil supply regardless of how wide the turns are. Is definitely worth it if you have the money for the setup.

Second, with that setup, you can lower the engine a lot more in a race car. In a MKIV, no, maybe 1 inch if that. The crossmember is still in the middle of the engine.

Miguel.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
All good questions guys and let me try to answer a few. Sorry ahead of time for typing a novel.

First off there are many advantages to using a dry sump over a conventional wet sump system.
first off:
Better engine cooling and consistent oil temperatures. the dry sump pump moves so much oil over the bearing surface that there is always a fresh supply to cool and lubricate the bearings. This means a longer engine life and lower engine temperatures.

Consistent oil pressure, the dry sump system is fully adjustable and oil press can be changed for different oil weights, track temperatures, engine clearances and number/size of coolers.
Also, as mentioned the oil pressure will be delivered regardless of the engines position. where as in a wet sump if the engine is seeing severe lateral G's the oil pick up could run out of its supply and starve for oil, failing to pump, even for a second, causing engine damage. A dry sump will pump oil as long as the engine is running, and at whatever press you tell it to pump at.

The consistent oil pressure also means that we can now run -12 oil lines and flow more volume through the lines to feed the cooler/coolers, making them more efficient, and lowering the engine temps without a sacrifice in oil pressure.

larger oil capacity, we are building tanks that are 2.5,3.0 and 4.0 gallons in capacity. this will ensure a huge volume of fresh oil is available for the engine. The tanks can be mounted where you wish to place the weight also.

The term "dry sump" comes from what is happening inside the oil pan,or sump, it is dry. there is no oil in the pan, it is being scavenged and pulled out under pressure. this does several things for us.
the main 2 being.
1: no oil from the pan being flung onto the conn rods and crankshaft which causes a loss in power and a whipping effect on the oil in the pan. when the oil turns to foam it cannot be pumped through your engine. also, oil clinging to your rotating assembly is parasitic weight slowing down the engines ability to turn RPM as well as costing HP to turn the extra weight on the parts. Engines rev quicker and make more HP.
2: the scavenging effect of the pump will actually create a vacuum in the oil pan. this will eliminate the problem of FT and R main seals being blown out due to positive crankcase pressure. This is a very common problem with turbo cars that either run high boost pressures, or run for extended periods at WOT. The boost the engine is digesting will eventually get past the piston rings and pressurize the oil pan and cam covers through the oil drain back galleys. this is how you push out your seals or cam cover gaskets.

Now some of you have mentioned the fact that with the lower profile dry sump pan the engine can normally be lowered in the chassis. this is correct in most situations BUT, the engineers at Toyota did such a amazing job on the 2JZGTE that the 2 piece lower pan is designed to place the engine just about as low as it can be placed in the chassis. I will have more numbers soon but from what we have learned so far we would be looking at a less that 1/2" of space the engine could be lowered.
This is with the factory FT cross member and steering rack in place. If you were to re design them we could lower the engine as much as you wish. we could also run it on it's side, or upside down for that matter..

Again, sorry for the novel.
Eric
 

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Great stuff, Eric, thanks for sharing!!!

At what point would say say this is a neccessary upgrade for us roadracers? I don't know if any of us have had engine damage from oil starvation, as long as it's at the full mark, even with R-comp Hoosiers.
 

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www.ziptieracing.com
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good write up.

I have looked into going dry sump in my time attack car several times, but several people have told me you usually go through an engine or 2 trying to get the thing sorted out before it becomes more optimal than the stock configuration if you are blazing new trails with an engine that hasn't been dry sumped before. What are your thoughts here? Will you be reliable right out of the gate or are you expecting some teething time?

Also curious - if you are showing constant oil pressure in datalogs, does this indeed mean you are not getting any starvation? Or is it possible to get momentary starvation of the pump without showing any noticeable oil pressure drop?
 

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I usually hate "good job" posts, but I really want to give you props, Eric. You continue to innovate, and your classy posts and excellent explanations are a great model for people in business and on this forum as well as a great learning opportunity.

Thank you and great job!
-Chris
 

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Impeller Head
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good write up.

I have looked into going dry sump in my time attack car several times, but several people have told me you usually go through an engine or 2 trying to get the thing sorted out before it becomes more optimal than the stock configuration if you are blazing new trails with an engine that hasn't been dry sumped before. What are your thoughts here? Will you be reliable right out of the gate or are you expecting some teething time?

Also curious - if you are showing constant oil pressure in datalogs, does this indeed mean you are not getting any starvation? Or is it possible to get momentary starvation of the pump without showing any noticeable oil pressure drop?
There's a constant supply of oil to the pump, from the oil tank. The pump will not starve of oil on a properly working/designed system.
 

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www.ziptieracing.com
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There's a constant supply of oil to the pump, from the oil tank. The pump will not starve of oil on a properly working/designed system.
I meant on a wet sump setup...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Gadfly, no need to lose the power steering. The dry sump does not interfere with the PS at all. Just the A/C compressor, which means you should remove the condenser also and get a better flow of air to the radiator.
We will also offer the shorter serpentine belt needed to eliminate the A/C as an option to make things easier.

And thanks for the kind words guys. This room is always my favorite to share info in.
Eric

Looks good, but I am not willing to loose my power steering and AC..
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Also, this is why we took so long to test and develop the system. There is always a trial and error when you do something new. We wanted to work out all of the little things before we offered the kit. I can say that we are ready to go with confidence.
Eric


good write up.

I have looked into going dry sump in my time attack car several times, but several people have told me you usually go through an engine or 2 trying to get the thing sorted out before it becomes more optimal than the stock configuration if you are blazing new trails with an engine that hasn't been dry sumped before. What are your thoughts here? Will you be reliable right out of the gate or are you expecting some teething time?

Also curious - if you are showing constant oil pressure in datalogs, does this indeed mean you are not getting any starvation? Or is it possible to get momentary starvation of the pump without showing any noticeable oil pressure drop?
 

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Pays Cash, No Questions
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Outstanding! Man, that is so impressive, guys... I'm speechless.
 

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maximizing slip angles
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never mind I just found everything I just asked in the other thread.

thanks
 
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