[DT]

Howdy Folks -

I've been stockpiling the parts for a high end JZ2 buildup - Carillo rods, JUN pistons, ARP fasteners, polished crank, new JZ2 bottom end, topping it off with Ferrea valve components (on "street ported" heads) - Whew!

This motor would (should) be pretty stout - probably keep the T04R setup, and also go with some 264 cams. OK, this will obviously produce some great numbers when tuned, and be able to handle some serious boost with the right gas. But it will still be a little sluggish on the bottom end, and have special fuel requirements for big numbers (though my current setup makes over 500RWHP on pump gas so I don't know how much more I'm looking for )

So....I was wondering what might gain me some decent low end, still make big numbers, but with improved area-under-curve (vs. a JZ2) - and respond well to forced induction, *especially* considering it's capabilities on pump gas. And finally, I was thinking what motor would still have a "tie" to the Supra lineage.

It seems like a Lexus 32v V8, either the 4.0 or newer 4.3L would be very interesting. I've seen on a couple of sites where with performance parts, they're pushing 400HP *NA* - you figure lowering the CR a little, and add some boost it would be an interesting combo. Of course, you would need some exotic aftermarket engine management solution (Motec?). The motor is all aluminum, so it would be at least as light as the JZ2 - but on the tradeoffs, it would likely not be as capable of high levels of boost (?)

I'm aware that HKS has built a Supra based (tube) drag car using a Lexus V8 and twin turbos cranking out some *insane* HP levels, but at (I'm sure) equally insane costs too

Just thinking about alternatives - obviously I would need to work with a pretty knowledgable builder - someone with capabilities beyind just bolting on a turbo kit. I might contact Swift Racing who does Lexus upgrades including a number of boosted applications. And it would really be a one-of-a-kind upgrade.

Thanks for any opinions, insight and general nay-saying!

 

[mervinnn]

Got a TO4R and don't even know the proper name for the motor it's strapped to!!!!! It's 2JZ-GTE! I am just being an asshole. That's a sweet car you have there.

AKAIK increasing displacement is usually the answer for low end grunt or a smaller turbo. Why not do a stroker kit on the "2JZ-GTE" ?

Good luck!

 

[DT]

Oh Jesus!!

Heheheh, I guess when you post at 3am....(plus I "inverted" the 2JZ-GTE into JZ2-GTE when I setup my DSL account since the former/correct was taken as you can see in the links in my sig) - WOW, and I have a 2JZ-GE in my GS300 - I must wear the "Hondas Rule" shirt_of_shame all weekend

I've looked into the stroker solution too, which may be an interesting alternative - the JUN kit, while a bit pricey punches things out to 3.3 and the JUN pistons I have are a work of art (actually built by Cosworth) - so I would assume the whole JUN kit is ultra high quality. I see there also a kit using JE/Crower parts for about 1/2 the price of the JUN which produces a 3.4L.
I understand you produce more stress on the cylinder walls/pistons from the increases angle the "longer" crank creates, but I don't know how/if this effects a boosted application. Plus I believe the increased/longer reciprocation cycle also reduces yout top rpm, which might be a deficit on a turbo setup that needs plenty of top end.

Good food for thought thanks merv (now where's that t-shirt...)

DT

Got a TO4R and don't even know the proper name for the motor it's strapped to!!!!! It's 2JZ-GTE! I am just being an asshole. That's a sweet car you have there.

AKAIK increasing displacement is usually the answer for low end grunt or a smaller turbo. Why not do a stroker kit on the "2JZ-GTE" ?

Good luck!

 

[Guest]

if you plan on using a stroker kit, JUN & Crower have already taken into consideration the rod ratio. they move the pin boss higher up into the piston to accomodate a longer connecting rod to keep the same rod ratio as from the factory. the rod ratio dictates how much side load is placed onto the cylinder walls as transmitted by the pistons/rings. and obviously if you have less side load, you have the ability to rev faster and higher. optimally you would want a rod ratio of 1.6-1.7 but the higher the number the better. plus, both manufacturers sell ther stroker kits as a completely balanced reciprocating mass equally distributing forces onto the block and again raising the engine's ability to rev higher and faster. although by the numbers a stroked engine does reduce maximum potential for higher revs against a slightly oversquare engine, the difference would be minimal. but the decrease in turbo lag of a stroked engine definitely is worth the trade-off in my opinion.

 

[DT]

TRD...

Thanks - excellent information. Obviously, using a Supra based motor is much simpler than going with something that would require significant fabrication (i.e. the Lexus motor).

A rock solid bottom end, with extreme RPM capability and improved low end torque sound like just the ticket I'm looking for.

Do you have any direct experience with either the Crower/JE kit for the JUN kit? I know the JUN setup is considered as good as it gets, but it's 2X the price of the Crower. I see a store offering the Crower kit indicates the brand of all the components but the crank - I assume it's also a Crower product.

DT

 

[pooshda]

I also wanna stroke my supra... I like the 3.4liter Crower kit because it offers a little more displacement, but I think the Jun parts are probably very superior.. would it be possible to mix and match... ie, go with Jun pistons/rods.. and use the rest from the Crower kit and still get 3.4 liters... or wouldnt that work correctly?... I want as much increased displacement as I can get but someone was saying something about Crower parts not being as accurate or as good in general.. Im going with either Jun or HKS Cams though thats for sure.. in the stroker kits is the only thing changed to increase the displacement the crank? or are the aftermarket pistons a different size and the rods as well? I know they are probably .5mm or 1mm overbore, but so are all other aftermarket pistons.. I want the price of the crower and the displacement but I want the Jun quality ... plus the extra .2 liters of displacement would be nice... any input?

 

[MADMKIV]

When I spoke to someone at Crower a few month's ago, they really didn't know how the kit was IRL. From what they told me, all they do is build it under someone else's specs (Jarret's?) and told me to call Benson's Machine shop where they actually installed this kit.

Until it's proven I'd go w/ Jun.

 

[Guest]

JUN parts are higher in quality because of their inpection and final product standards. they are much more sringent on tolerances and therefore make a higher quality part. but in terms of strength, they are almost identical with the nod going to JUN. but is it worth the money? Crower's kit is based upon your specification. basically a made to order part. so i would figure out exactly what you want and discuss it with your engine builder. and remember, it's only as good as who builds it! everthing in the stroker kit is differnent and must be used together. the wrist pin boos is placed higher and the ring land grooves are consquently placed higher and closer together to keep the same rod ratio when used with a longer connecting rod. the block must also be notched out. extremely so if you're looking for .4L more displacement. but if ultimate power and outta this world revvability is what you're looking for. i'd get the Crower stroker kit with their titanium con. rods. more cc's, more power, more revs, and more torque than the JUN for the same price!

 

[pooshda]

Actually More for a lot LESS than the Jun stroker kit ... damn I love the name Jun and Id trust them much more with a SUPRA.. If I had a Camaro or something id go crower but hmm.. someone the other day was talking about how their cams are sloppy, maybe this isnt the case with the stroker kit since... for $5k it better be fucking GOOD.. Ah well Ill go with it I think, Id like to find someone who has used it first who can give me opinions, but the number of stroked supras I know if is almost non-existent.

 

[Guest]

he's not giving out too many details, Vinny Ten is running a Crower stroker kit on his second motor with the Accel DFI running a custom made distributor and the twin TO4S's. if it's good enough for 1000RWHP with steel rods, imagine what it'll be good for with titanium. their shelf stock parts have much to be sought after because they're quality standards are'nt as high as JUN's. but remember, this is a made-to-order part that's $4K with steel rods that you're comparing with $300 production cams. i would tend to believe that with the stroker kits, quality is very comparable to JUN's. but as far as strngth goes, they're are equal considering they're made of the same materials. i've had lots of experience with Crower con. rods & cranks and have no complaints but all praises.

 

[pooshda]

Thanks a lot for the reply... I would not be able to spend $9k+ on a stroker kit, but the $5k for the Crower sounds ok to me.. Ill just go with Crower stroker, and maybe get the titanium rod upgrade.. then for cams ill just go with Jun or HKS.... Im just hoping I get quite a bit more power before the turbo hits.. a little more low end torque would be bad ass on a supra.. but I know I cant have too much since the motor isnt all that big.. Im sure Ill be happy though if I do it

 

[Guest]

Hi guys, I'm very much interested in the combination of using the JUN pistons with the Crower rodsn crank. Do u think that will work well together?

This is cos I already have the JUN pistons and am now trying to choose whether to go for all JUN parts for the block or do i get crower rodsn crank since they are cheaper.

 

[silvino]

This has been talked about a few times now. Search for more details but basically no one has used the Crower setup yet and for a strange reason. Search again.

 

[MADMKIV]

Like I said many times about the Crower kit... It's not a Proven kit!!! I believe PHR had them create this kit to their spec and experimented with it but for some reason it never blossomed.

go with the JUN or HKS Stroker... Or spin it to 8500 RPM's

This has been talked about a few times now. Search for more details but basically no one has used the Crower setup yet and for a strange reason. Search again.

 

[Guest]

If you want displacement, how about a 1FZ-FE? It's a 4.5L I6 from the Land Cruisers (both Toyota and the rebadged Lexus cruisers).

You would need different cams I'm sure, as a truck engine has cams for low RPM operation only.

Stick with anything I6. The ideal turbocharging engine (space provided).

 

[Mark Conte]

Like I said many times about the Crower kit... It's not a Proven kit!!! I believe PHR had them create this kit to their spec and experimented with it but for some reason it never blossomed.

go with the JUN or HKS Stroker... Or spin it to 8500 RPM's

do you have any idea where to find the HKS stroker.

also how high do you think you would be able to rev the motor after the stroker kit? i want at least 8,200 rpm, because obviously in going with a stroker im looking for big power (i would just like some on the bottom too) but as said with wanting big power im gonna have a turbo that needs big rpm, so considering they moved the center of the piston upwards, and kept a good rod ratio, and the strength of the products (especially with titanium con rods, which i think ill be using) their light weight and strength should allow me to rev high, correct? obviously i would need a valve train as well, probably hks 272 cams as i believe they are just barely (9.30/9.35) higher lift than the comparable jun 272's. does anyone have any input on the valvetrain? like any reason to go with the jun cams. or which company they like better? (ferrera, crower, jun) thanks for any input and great thread lots of good info.

 

[MADMKIV]

The HKS Stroker was shown in the last "Turbo Magazine" where it showed pictures of the Japanese version of SEMA. There's no clue on how long it'll take before it's released, maybe call HKS or a major HKS dealer to find out the release date and specs on the stroker (Bore/Stroke, Rod ratio etc...)

I'm not positive what the strokers are rated too RPM wise but 8k shouldn't be out of the question, and for that reason I'd use some 264/264 cams from a proven high quality company like JUN(Cosworth built) or HKS.

Ti aftermarket rods are known to stretch over time and are usually a "race car" only item, stick with a steel rod like Pauter, Crower or Carillo

 

[Mark Conte]

thanks for the info on the titanium rods i didnt know they had any issues like that. also why would you choose 264's over 272s for a top end car, i understand they will give you a good amount of power at the bottom but once you pass 5-6000 the 272's should run away with it.

 

[MADMKIV]

My opinion is that 264/264 cams are more then good enough for Street motors that push ~800 RWHP and 8000 RPM's from what I've seen from the various dyno sheets on this board. If you want to spin 8500-9000+ then I'd go with 272's...

 

[Mark Conte]

ooooh preetttttyyyy youre right i had that issue and didnt even see it. that looks nice, i cant wait for some specs. probably will be about 15 years till we get it though, i really need a friend in japan. oh wow T04Z turbo? that thing is probably a monster. good stuff from hks. ya gotta love the supra, it gets discontinued, THEN HKS builds a stroker.

about the cams, that makes sence but id be more concerned with how much air they can flow at ultra high power. like the stock cams can flow enough lb/min for i believe its like 670-680 rwhp, i wonder how much the 264's and 272's can flow...or maybe the head is the problem at those flow levels and needs to be ported.