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Discussion Starter #1
Today Brembo released their rear brake kit for the MKIV Supra, finally! Details are:
4-piston Ferrari F50 calipers for rear
345mm (13.58") 2-piece rotors, cross drilled or slotted your choice
Rear Brake lines
Brembo brake pads for rear
Machined Hats (adapters) for calipers to fit Supra

MSRP: $2,795
Calipers are available in red, black, or silver

This kit requires 17" wheels and we highly recommend 18" as not all 17" wheels will fit.

This kit is balanced to work with their 14" front kit. I have one on the way today to put on my street car and see how it works. Brembo guarantees me I won't need a portioning valve, I'm sure their right but I'm anxious to see how it works regardless.

I bought all the kits Brembo had on their shelf, it was only 6 of them, so if anyone is interested let me know. We'll be selling these first kits for about $2500.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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Did Brembo send you any pics? If not be sure to snap some when you get your kit, I'm sure everyone is anxious to see these
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No pics yet but I'm fairly certain they will look identical to the front 14" kit pictured on the Brakes section of MVP's MKIV website.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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Not trying to flame here at all, but I question the need for a rear big brake kit on virtually any front engine, rear drive car. I am assuming that this kit will appeal more to people who already have the front F50/Brembo Gran Turismo kit and want a matching set for the rear?

Honestly, someone please tell me what performance gain could be hoped for with a rear "big brake" kit. I'd love to know.

Steve T.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I agree with you Steve, there may not be a substantial increase with this rear kit installed, and there may not be an increase at all...who knows.

I'm getting it myself for a few reasons:
1) As you identified, to match my front Brembo
2) To see if there is indeed any decrease (non-scientific test...) in braking distance. I try to know as much as I can about what I carry and I feel in the interest of knowledge and a tax write-off I must own this kit. ;)
3) Most important to me - balance. I heavily prefer the idea of a perfectly balanced kit front & rear. I have had a life-threatening & eye-opening experience in a car that had bad balance between F&R brakes. Granted you can just put in a valve (and I have done so with great success on my daily driver Supra) but for me personally I prefer it this way. I'll trust Brembo's brake knowledge & R&D over mine any day.

Also, if I remember correctly, when StopTech announced their F&R kit no one questioned the need for the rear kit. Instead they hailed its arrival. Odd... :)

Regards,

Dusty
 

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Thanks for pointing out these things Dusty. Again, I'm wanting to know if I'm missing something...not to say "Brembo isn't worth buying" or something silly since I know they are one of the premiere manufacturers of braking kits in the world bar none. I would question the exact same logic from StopTech so don't worry about that. :)

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Steve T.
 

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Steve,

As you know, I have Brembos front and rear (14s front and rear also) with a brake proportioning valve. When you lower our cars, or any car for that matter, you will decrease weight transfer to the front, meaning you can take better advantage of rear brakes. If you add RA coilovers like I have and adjust them accordingly (for a particular track), you can reduce weight transfer even further). With the proportioning valve, which I insisted on as a result of having the same size calipers and rotors in the front, you can dial in more rear brake bias, within reason of course.

Although I do not subscribe to the 60-0 brake test as the end-all-be-all, I have a best of 99 feet in less than optimal track conditions. The best I've seen for a stock Supra is 109 feet and Mani did 106 feet in one of the USCC contests with the StopTechs. If you don't deal with weight transfer you won't be able to take advantage of big brakes in the rear, seeing as how the stock rear brakes are pretty big in themselves. I'm going to have my car corner balanced fairly soon. I often wondered if this has an effect on braking as well. It seems to me it might, as long as you've dealt with weight transfer issues.

Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Very clear & informative post Ken, thank you. We could certainly use more members such as yourself.

Regards,

Dusty
 

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If the system is properly balanced to the car you will gain some stopping performance out of a rear set. However, just like the front stock system, it is very hard to beat a factory set-up if you're comparing it on a day-to-day driving. Where almost all of these big brake kits shine is when you're using them REPEATEDLY and hard. Also, as you increase your speed they will come into play. I 'estimate' the rear kit will help you stop few feet faster if you're to get on them back to back at high speeds.
The next comment is my own opinion ;)
Nothing look shttier than having a bad ass front brake system and as you move your eye toward the back of the car to see that ugly stock caliper and rotor. It's like doing to very cute fat chick :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the feedback Mani. Sounds like you're speaking from all kinds of personal experience...er...with the braking system that is...not about doing a fat chick. :D

Dusty
 

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Funny you should mention that Mani...I remember looking at Keith Ta's car in Vegas 2001 (when it was up on the trailer at the car show) and thinking to myself "man, the only thing I can find that isn't modified are the rear brakes". Obviously that isn't accurate, but it applies well to your own comments. ;)

Steve T.

Mani said:
...The next comment is my own opinion ;)
Nothing look shttier than having a bad ass front brake system and as you move your eye toward the back of the car to see that ugly stock caliper and rotor. It's like doing to very cute fat chick :D
 

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V8 Killer said:
Very clear & informative post Ken, thank you. We could certainly use more members such as yourself.

Regards,

Dusty
Thanks for the kind words, Dusty. Your work in the Supra community is very much appreciated as well. I'll be interested in your impressions when you get your rears installed.

Mani,

I agree wholeheartedly, about the brakes that is. The front and rear properly balanced big brake upgrades really shine when it comes to braking from really high speeds, and having to do it again and again.

FWIW, the aftermarket has had a devil of time improving upon the OEM brakes in most day to day driving conditions (the aftermarket has never met the initial bite standard of the OEM caliper/pad combo, IMO). I noted earlier the best 60-0 braking distance I've read about for our cars is 109 feet. For 70-0, our cars were the best in the 1997 C/D 10-Best issue at 149 feet. The best I've read about for 80-0 (don't remember the mag) was 204 feet. Someone find any car in any price category that meets or exceeds those numbers in OEM configuration. I'm not saying the car (s) doesn't exist, but I think it will be an interesting exercise for someone to go through.

Lastly, I believe its generally accepted that 100-0 in 300 feet or less is outstanding. I don't have any Supra numbers here. Anybody out there that does?

Ken.
 

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Ken,

I believe that both the 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and 2003 Dodge Viper SRT-10 can give the Supra TT a run for its money in terms of braking performance, but I don't have any numbers in front of me to prove my case. I am sure about the 60-0 numbers, but the 70-0 and up I'm not so sure. It's very refreshing to see the Supra still performing so well compared to machinery/technology that is 10+ years newer. :)

Steve T.
 

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Steve,

I don't know about the Lancer because I am so far behind in my reading, but you are right about the Viper. In M/T's SRT 10/Ford GT comparo, the Viper's 60-0 braking distance was 97 feet (!). I'll have to check when I get home whether they show any braking at longer distances.

Ken.
 

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Okay, I did a bit more research and found two additional 80-0 Supra braking distances at 201 and 199 feet. respectively. Interestingly, the 201 is from a 1997 Option magazine (did the JDM cars have the US-spec brakes at this point?) and the 199 is from Sports Car International magazine.

Anyway, I took a look at the the R & T Sports and GT Cars 2004 and found that braking performance, in general, continues to progress at a significant pace. To wit,

CAR 60-0 80-0

'04 ZO6 107 feet 189 feet

Ford GT 117 feet 199 feet

Mustang Mach 1 122 feet 217 feet

Z4 3.0i 113 feet 196 feet

Boxster 113 feet 199 feet

Enzo* 109 feet 188 feet

Saleen S7 125 feet 230 feet

RX-8 114 feet 202 feet

Crossfire 113 feet 203 feet

Pontiac GTO 132 feet 238 feet

Caddy XLR 125 feet 222 feet

Jag XK8 125 feet 222 feet

SC 430 123 feet 218 feet

Maserati Spyder GT 113 feet 202 feet

M-B SL 500 113 feet 203 feet

911 Carrera Cab 111 feet 198 feet
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93-98 Supra 109 feet 199 feet

*To be fair, like the McLaren F-1, Ferrari gave up a bit of low speed braking power (below 130 mph) to ensure the car stopped effectively on a continuous basis from 150-200+ mph. Manufacturers know that outright racing pads are not civil enough for the street and require gobs of heat to work effectively. To have a 200+ mph car that can exist, even thrive relatively speaking in bumper to bumper traffic on the 405 requires tradeoffs in pad material that augur against eye-popping low speed braking distances. Even so, the numbers are still fairly impressive.

I didn't include curb or test weights but when weight is factored in, it makes some of the above performances even more meaningful. For instance, the M-B SL 500 is a 4000+ lb car. Yet its braking performance is competitive with many cars as much as 1300 lbs lighter. Addtional food for thought.

Anyway you look at the ZO6 with a curb weight of exactly 3100 lbs has pretty awesome braking along with the '04 Viper SRT 10.

Hope this helps.

Ken.
 

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WOW, that's some awesome info. Thanks Ken :D

Dusty, can't wait to hear the results of your tests. I'm looking into buying a set of Brembo's myself (all 4), but it'll have to wait until after the single install :D
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Great info Ken, thanks again. That's all very interesting data & I'm glad to have it.

Greg - I'll definitely post some feedback after I get them installed and corner weighted. I think my car is the only reason Powerhouse ever dusts off their corner weight scales. :)

Regards,

Dusty
 

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A question for all those brake gods out there: Will it make a difference if someone uses a larger disc witht the stock calipers? If so, does anyone make a kit to utilize a larger disc with the stock calipers?..Darshana S...
 

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Here are some links to great information on braking... This is a must for anyone who's considering a brake upgrade or wants to know more about how the whole thing works.

Formulas for vehile braking dynamics
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/formulas for vehicle braking dynamics.pdf

MONOBLOC Versus Two Piece Calipers
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/monobloc3.htm

Rear Brake Upgrades ... Is Bigger Really Better?
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/rear_brake_upgrade_is_bigger_better120601.htm

Brake Systems and Upgrade Selection
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brake_systems_and_upgrade_selections_122701.htm
 
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