Supra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, my car has it's head off. took it to a motor shop here in Turkey. Helped them out, should cut me a bit of a discount, I hope.

Anyway, as of Friday, we had the cam covers, both manifolds, and all the accessories off the engine. They pulled the head bolts out and said they'd continue on Monday. I showed up a little late today (monday) and they had already pulled the head off and taken it to be milled. I don't know much Turkish, but I guess it was in pretty bad shape if they didn't even ask me. This thought was proven after I took a look at the head and exhaust gaskets they had left behind.

The engine had obviously been worked on before, a few minor missing nuts, etc, so I figured it had had a head/gasket job at some time. I was right.

*suspensful music* However, when I looked at the gasket, I realized that the idiot who had done it originally...

TOOK THE HEAD OFF, AND PUT THE ORIGINAL GASKET BACK IN WHEN HE PUT IT BACK TOGETHER.

big wtf there. No wonder it had shitty power to begin with and was losing antifreeze little by little. Damn. I have never seen a gasket this fawked before. 160k miles on an original gasket. That's gotta be some kind of record, at least.

Anyway, picked up an Ishino set and ARP studs, which should be installed by Wednesday, driveable by Thursday.

Pictures hosted at the website below, take a look and comment if you wish.

Stupid Supra Owner?

I didn't intend to frame up those pictures with the gasket, by the way, it just kindof happened. Looks nice. And yes, the Average Turkish Girl does look like that. I'm here in Izmir for another few monhts if anybody wants to come over and experience it for themselves.
 

·
25psi = 14" brakes :)
Joined
·
2,306 Posts
Are you using another stock HG in your engine?

If so, perhaps you need to re-think the title...

Something along the lines of "I did not learn from this other guy's mistakes, so I used a stock HG again..."

I nominate that as your next thread title.... (If you go with a stock HG again.)

Spend the money, and buy a metal head gasket, and install it coated with brake quiet spray from Permatex. It will not deform and leak like that stock one did.

BTW, I put about 170k on my stock HG, and only wiped it out running 21psi of boost. Your first high pressure event will deform the stock HG, and from then on, it leaks untill you replace it.

Dang, on another note, those Turkish women are nothing like I'd have expected. Where are the hairy ones that look like Zorba? LOL (I guess that's the Greek ones eh?)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,409 Posts
adjuster said:
Dang, on another note, those Turkish women are nothing like I'd have expected. Where are the hairy ones that look like Zorba? LOL (I guess that's the Greek ones eh?)
HAHAHAHAHAHAH im sure Greek girls dont compare to what you get in boise. Time to make a trip down to europe bro. Walk around Athens during the day, you will never see finer ass.

As for turkey. No comments.

BACK ON TOPIC.

I Agree never use a stock hg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I agree about the Stock HG. However, I have my reasoning.

#1 is budget. I don't make enough pay to go MHG and all that comes with it. As it stands now I'm replacing the HG, and looking at valves. I have (Had, god willing) a valve tick that I hope I can correct at this time, my budget can hopefully extend that far. I'm following the whole teardown/rebuild process so that I can go MHG as soon as I get the budget to do it in the states. If I had the tools and garage space, I'd do it all myself now, and only fork out for machining and lapping, as well as any valve and lifter work that may need to be done. The Navy Base I'm going to in PA has tools and lift time galore so that I can accomplish this at my leisure.

I'm not intending to do much boosting at all. The car is, for all purposes, stock. About a month after I bought the car I lost interest in playing around at stoplights, as the average street racing car here is a "riced out" Tofash (cheap Fiat). Best thing I've seen here so far was a 7 series Beamer and I was waiting for parts when I saw it, so no go.

Anyway, it's 2, maybe 2 and a half months, tops until this car gets boxed up and shipped to the states. I'm taking it easy for now, and budgeted for ARP studs so that future work can be done without buying those again.

Once it's in the states, I'm intending to garage it and buy a cheap 4 banger for daily driving, if I need a car at all. Then I can start thinking about putting everything together to make this a decent car.
 

·
Street Sleeper
Joined
·
1,114 Posts
adjuster said:
Are you using another stock HG in your engine?

If so, perhaps you need to re-think the title...

Something along the lines of "I did not learn from this other guy's mistakes, so I used a stock HG again..."

I nominate that as your next thread title.... (If you go with a stock HG again.)
Nothing wrong with the Toyota gasket if its installed properly and torqued to 72lb/ft if your not aiming to run more than 12 - 14psi on the stock ct 26.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Edit: I intended to state that the idiot owner put the exact same (as in, the one he pulled from the car) gasket back into the engine.

That is the reason for the post title. As such, I hadn't intended to be labeled with the title myself. My reasons for going SHG are purely monetary at the moment, and this job is only designed put the car back on the road so I can get it to America without failing Customs, Emissions, etc etc.

Aside: It looks as though when this guy did his original work, he put a new timing belt on, as well as replacing all the others. Probably the only smart thing he did. There are no other major problems as yet, save for an odd clunk coming from the right rear (suspect the suspension bushings) but I think I'm going to end up having the block looked at and possibly torn down when I get back. Regardless, I think it's something that probably needs to be done on a motor with this kind of mileage (160+) on it anyway, but finding that ridiculous head gasket has popped the priority up a bit.

Any words of advice? I'd like to avoid being titled as my topic yet again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,385 Posts
how do you know he put the original head gasket back on? If you blew another stock one it would look exactly the same as the original.

adam
 

·
Not ur jizz, not ur bizz
Joined
·
6,571 Posts
sammydafish said:
I didn't even pay attention to the gasket... chics in the paper were hot :)






and BTW, this pic rocks :rockon:

that pic does rock!

hey, no offense dude, but you remind me of Arnold Poindexter from Revenge of the Nerds! (which is one of the best movies of ALL FUCKIN TIME!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,249 Posts
Buttmunch said:
Nothing wrong with the Toyota gasket if its installed properly and torqued to 72lb/ft if your not aiming to run more than 12 - 14psi on the stock ct 26.
you're dumb. bishop was running what, 400+ horsepower on an OEM headgasket/ARPs. detonation kills headgaskets, not boost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, I'm pretty damned sure that that's the original gasket. I've never seen anything so chewed up in my life. I could be wrong, it's just the impression I got. This is the first sport car I've owned. Everything else has been family sized v and straight 6. Regardless, it just looked like the crappiest thing I've ever seen come off an engine (cept a seriously cracked block on a diesel once).

The guys at the shop I have the car at looked at the gasket and just gaped. Pretty much said they've never seen anything like it, and it looks like it's never been changed. Maybe that's why I'm spouting off.

Thanks for the kudos on the wedding pic. I'm partial to that one myself, and the one of my loverly bride (Betul) with a big smile all by herself in the house.

I don't mind the nerds reference. I am a twidget in the Navy (work with electronics, dabble in mechanics), and I suppose that kind of lifestyle just shows. *grin*
 

·
Street Sleeper
Joined
·
1,114 Posts
Nocheez said:
you're dumb. bishop was running what, 400+ horsepower on an OEM headgasket/ARPs. detonation kills headgaskets, not boost.

when was the last time you got detonation at 12psi boost(unless you have a major leak in your accordian hose)??? from what I know about the tccs is it runs pig rich at wot so no worry of detonation there. and your statement vondicates what I said about there is nothing wrong with the stock head gasket only bad tuning will kill your head gasket wether it be oem or mhg.
 

·
Certified Supra Nut :P
Joined
·
2,001 Posts
Buttmunch said:
when was the last time you got detonation at 12psi boost(unless you have a major leak in your accordian hose)??? from what I know about the tccs is it runs pig rich at wot so no worry of detonation there. and your statement vondicates what I said about there is nothing wrong with the stock head gasket only bad tuning will kill your head gasket wether it be oem or mhg.

Detonation has nothing to do with being rich or lean. Detonation is the rapid uncontrollable burning of the mixture inside the chamber when cylinder pressures are high. This can be caused by a broad array of conditions. Lean conditions often contribute to detonation because cylinder temperature will rise and hot spots will often be created. The mixture may also loose homogeneity causing and inconsistent flame front. This is only one possible cause of detonation and going lean is only one possible cause for these conditions.

To much boost, poor tuning, going lean, detonation, none of these things cause HG failure and all of them do. The bottom line is that a HG will fail when the force applied to it is greater than the force it can withstand. As soon as peak cylinder pressure goes beyond the failure point of gasket it will fatigue and eventually fail. It doesn’t matter if it’s constant or momentary force. There are many things that can cause it to happen.
 

·
Street Sleeper
Joined
·
1,114 Posts
sammydafish said:
Detonation has nothing to do with being rich or lean. Detonation is the rapid uncontrollable burning of the mixture inside the chamber when cylinder pressures are high. This can be caused by a broad array of conditions. Lean conditions often contribute to detonation because cylinder temperature will rise and hot spots will often be created. The mixture may also loose homogeneity causing and inconsistent flame front. This is only one possible cause of detonation and going lean is only one possible cause for these conditions.

To much boost, poor tuning, going lean, detonation, none of these things cause HG failure and all of them do. The bottom line is that a HG will fail when the force applied to it is greater than the force it can withstand. As soon as peak cylinder pressure goes beyond the failure point of gasket it will fatigue and eventually fail. It doesn’t matter if it’s constant or momentary force. There are many things that can cause it to happen.
Thanx for clearing that up :urowned:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Guys, can we get back to topic here. I understand about detonation and stuff. Thanks for the rehash though.

Nasty gasket, eh? Looking at it, I can't understand how I wasn't burning more a/f, or putting it into the oil. No white smoke, no black smoke, nothing. Just a slow drain in the resivoir. Had to fill it up about once a week. Doesn't seem possible, now that I've seen the gasket. Also, any ideas on how this could have created a valve tick, or is it unrelated?
Accidentally let it get about a quart low once, that's about when the tick started, to my best recollection. It's certainly coming from the top end. It was faint at first, so i thought it was something to do with the injectors (a relay like ticking) but it got louder and nastier while I was waiting for my gasket. I should've grabbed a wav of it or something, but hindsight is always 20-20, neh?

Let me know your opinions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,249 Posts
Buttmunch said:
when was the last time you got detonation at 12psi boost(unless you have a major leak in your accordian hose)??? from what I know about the tccs is it runs pig rich at wot so no worry of detonation there. and your statement vondicates what I said about there is nothing wrong with the stock head gasket only bad tuning will kill your head gasket wether it be oem or mhg.
sorry, i didn't mean to sound like a prick (even though i did). lack of sleep and not feeling well.

anyways, what i meant is that an OEM headgasket with properly torqued hardware is good for over 400 horsepower. i'd rather detonation kill my headgasket instead of my internals, personally.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,409 Posts
Nocheez said:
sorry, i didn't mean to sound like a prick (even though i did). lack of sleep and not feeling well.

anyways, what i meant is that an OEM headgasket with properly torqued hardware is good for over 400 horsepower. i'd rather detonation kill my headgasket instead of my internals, personally.
Sure in theory. But even bishop blew his IIRC. i wouldnt trust a stock hg for anything over 12psi. Get a bigger turbo maybe. From what ive seen they just dont hold up.

Ang
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
I run well over 12 psi with a stock head gasket. 15 - 18 depending on what gear I'm in, actually. I've blown up a lot of parts, but the head gasket is not one of them.

Bishop and I have the same underlying theory - it only takes a few hours to replace an OEM gasket, and you can run them for at least a year, so just take into account that you will be tearing down the engine once every year or so. Gives you something to tinker with in the winter.

Makes me keep on top of valve clearances and carbon buildup, plus I always have fresh gaskets on the top end of the engine. :)
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top