Nice deal on the car! Keep us posted on the conversion and take lotsa pics. 
New Supra Owner
G
What up everyone?
My name is Joe and I just bought a 1983 Celica Supra for 250 bucks. It was a private deal and the guy didnt know what he had. He kept telling me it was a V6......hahhahahahaha
Well, anyway the motor has a rough 265 thousand miles on it and in the next month I'm buying a 7M-GTE from Toysport and dropping it in there, the gearbox is fine except for the clutch. I plan on using a T3/T4 instead of the Ct26 Toyota turbo. My ultimate goal will be 500 rwhp with a 11 second 1/4 time.......Just telling all you MkII owners out there about my new coming to the Supra world.
Peace
My name is Joe and I just bought a 1983 Celica Supra for 250 bucks. It was a private deal and the guy didnt know what he had. He kept telling me it was a V6......hahhahahahaha
Well, anyway the motor has a rough 265 thousand miles on it and in the next month I'm buying a 7M-GTE from Toysport and dropping it in there, the gearbox is fine except for the clutch. I plan on using a T3/T4 instead of the Ct26 Toyota turbo. My ultimate goal will be 500 rwhp with a 11 second 1/4 time.......Just telling all you MkII owners out there about my new coming to the Supra world.
Peace
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
G
Why not just go with a 2jz/Getrag conversion? Then you don't have to worry about rebuilding the motor etc and you get a bulletproof setup running 320hp.
What steps are you planning to keep the rear from slamming to the ground under accel? I have a set of eibachs but I have been contemplating a custom bilstein coilover setup.
Good luck on your conversion - we should swap ideas cause I eventually want to run gobs of HP but only if the car can handle it.
What steps are you planning to keep the rear from slamming to the ground under accel? I have a set of eibachs but I have been contemplating a custom bilstein coilover setup.
Good luck on your conversion - we should swap ideas cause I eventually want to run gobs of HP but only if the car can handle it.
G
The 2JZGTE is the twin turbo 3.0 liter motor in the MK4 series of Supras. The 6-speed Getrag tranny came in the MK4 Supra and would allow for reliable high-HP applications and a higher top speed.
Don't get me wrong the 7MGTE conversion is great but I am sure this is the better way to go(for me). I am going to be converting my MK2 also in the spring and want about 500hp + too. With the 2JZ the 500hp mark is either a BPU+ or BPU++ ( I forget which). Not all that much money. The 7MGTE can produce 500 but it takes a lot of work and the most I have ever heard being sqeezed from a 7M is about 650.
So are you planning on drag racing or road racing? I am gonna try and see what this car can do on the race tracks with a full race suspension(unfortuntely most of it will have to be custom made) and a strong and responsive drivetrain. With the projected power to weight ratios we should be able to outrun all but the best MK4's =)
Opps forgot your question on price: ~4000-6000 for MK4 front clip
Don't get me wrong the 7MGTE conversion is great but I am sure this is the better way to go(for me). I am going to be converting my MK2 also in the spring and want about 500hp + too. With the 2JZ the 500hp mark is either a BPU+ or BPU++ ( I forget which). Not all that much money. The 7MGTE can produce 500 but it takes a lot of work and the most I have ever heard being sqeezed from a 7M is about 650.
So are you planning on drag racing or road racing? I am gonna try and see what this car can do on the race tracks with a full race suspension(unfortuntely most of it will have to be custom made) and a strong and responsive drivetrain. With the projected power to weight ratios we should be able to outrun all but the best MK4's =)
Opps forgot your question on price: ~4000-6000 for MK4 front clip
G
I would say to start with the 7M conversion first because the 2JZ conversion has never been done(yet, there is one person doing the swap now, check the mk2 list). The 7M swap is a MUCH easier one to do because the block is the same and the electronics are relatively similar. The 2JZ is a COMPLETELY different engine(size, electronics, etc). Joel Tanzman is running a built 7M in his mk2 and is pushing 900 ponies. *I think* He is running consistent low 10's.
I just purchased my 7MGTE today. It's in a Cressida. Heh. Talk about sleeper. Old 4 door family car with a pshhhhh.....
I just purchased my 7MGTE today. It's in a Cressida. Heh. Talk about sleeper. Old 4 door family car with a pshhhhh.....
IMO you're not going to get 500+ reliable hp out of a bpu 2jz. Those turbos will disintegrate after a short amount of time, don't forget that they use ceramic turbines. If you want a high hp mk2 the only cost effective way to go is 7m. The only way you are going to get good reliable hp out of a 2jz is by converting it to a single turbo, and that is big bucks. Not too mention the hassles of putting the engine in. Assuming you put a 2jz/6 speed combo in, you will need to fabricate new motor mounts, new gearbox mounts and a new crossmember. You might also have to modify the driveshaft to bold up to the 6 speed, not to mention beating the tunnel out so that the box will actually fit. And then you have the wiring, which will be a nightmare.
More than likely by the time you have a stock 2jz in and running you could have had a 400rwhp 7m. I know which one I would choose, and have in fact.
More than likely by the time you have a stock 2jz in and running you could have had a 400rwhp 7m. I know which one I would choose, and have in fact.
That's a 168 KW which = about 220RWH
G
Through Suprastore.com, a 7mgte engine swap is $8000. So getting the JZ would be a little more cost effective. I'm not looking for an 800HP monster, I want something in the range of 500HP that runs off 92 octaine at the pump. The 7mgte is said to deliver 275HP at the wheels installed, any idea on the JZ?
Don Culberson's 7mgte kit installed is only $4800. That 2jz conversion is gonna be some big bux.
Nope, not a joke. If I had a working scanner I'd scan the sheet. Exact conversion to hp makes it 223(i think). BTW it is also on a dynodynmics dyno, which gives a lower rwhp reading than the dynojet that is commonly is use in the USA. Theoretically it is over 300hp at the crank.
Haven't taken it to the track yet. Will one day I think. I would estimate, with practice, a low 13 I guess. At the moment it is off the road, during which I'm going to replace the intercooler and do over the suspension. With a good intercooler I would expect to put down even more, I'm only running a 1ggte core, which is smaller than the 7mgte ic.
I have no idea what a stock 2jz is supposed to put down at the wheels. Less than mine no doubt. Not sure where you got 275hp at the wheels, that is NOT a stock 7m. It is only rated at 230-232hp at the crank.
Haven't taken it to the track yet. Will one day I think. I would estimate, with practice, a low 13 I guess. At the moment it is off the road, during which I'm going to replace the intercooler and do over the suspension. With a good intercooler I would expect to put down even more, I'm only running a 1ggte core, which is smaller than the 7mgte ic.
I have no idea what a stock 2jz is supposed to put down at the wheels. Less than mine no doubt. Not sure where you got 275hp at the wheels, that is NOT a stock 7m. It is only rated at 230-232hp at the crank.
I don't believe the bell housing on the getrag tranny fits in the mk2 space, but I may be wrong. In any case the 7mgte conversion is very very nice, $8000 sounds outrageous, my buddy and I did it for about $1500, about 90% of the money went into the block for cleaning and making sure everything is tight with new rings and bearings....in any case, I believe that the 7m is just as bullet proof if not more than the jz. The conversion for the 7m from the 5m is pretty easy, relatively speaking, since the only new, major conversion being the oil pickup tube. I've logged about 3500 miles on the new engine, and even with a bad turbo, i'm very satisfied. Another major plus is the gas mileage on the highway. I travelled bout 120 miles to the border of ut and id to get some lottery tickets (ut sucks with that), and ended up doing about 29 mpg on the highway. Pretty amazing when you can get that much fuel economy out of a fast car.
The 2JZ conversion doesn't have to be outrageously expensive - in fact if you're happy to use an automatic transmission it can be quite cost effective. I bought a 2JZ front cut for $2900 (Aus dollars), which includes everything I need for the conversion apart from some custom engine mounts and gearbox crossmember (easy stuff). I don't anticipate any major dramas with this swap - I know the 1JZ-GTE goes in quite easily, and the 2JZ-GTE is very similar (on the outside anyway).
As for the 7M-GTE being as bulletproof as the 2JZ - you must be kidding!! Join the SOGI list and listen to their tales of woe as members constantly blow headgaskets. In fact I would have to say that the 7M-GTE is the least reliable Toyota engine I have had any experience with.
Toyota learned their lesson on that one, which is why the JZ engines have metal headgaskets from the factory - no more BHG's! The 2JZ-GTE is just a vastly superior engine in every respect. Why else do you think the 7M was retired?
As for the 7M-GTE being as bulletproof as the 2JZ - you must be kidding!! Join the SOGI list and listen to their tales of woe as members constantly blow headgaskets. In fact I would have to say that the 7M-GTE is the least reliable Toyota engine I have had any experience with.
Toyota learned their lesson on that one, which is why the JZ engines have metal headgaskets from the factory - no more BHG's! The 2JZ-GTE is just a vastly superior engine in every respect. Why else do you think the 7M was retired?
The 7M is as good as any, and can be as good as the 2JZ. The reason why the 2JZ is better is because of what it comes with in it's stock form.
First off, Toyota learned with the 7M, that the torque value on the head was wrong, and increased it on the 2JZ, in other words, they fixed the BHG problem with more torque.
Second, the 2JZ comes stock with forged pistons. This means you can run 500+ hp on stock internals
Third, the 2JZ comes stock with 550cc injectors, the 7M only 440cc.
Fourth, the twin turbo setup pushes more air than the ct-26
Fifth, the MKIV comes with a more efficient intercooler
Now, of course the overall design of the 2JZ is better than the 7M, but that comes with technology and improvents, such as a better oiling system, and better flowing head.
Now, if you port a 7M head, and drop in a set of 2JZ valves, run forged pistons, larger AFM, larger injectors, 2JZ IC, and get an upgrade on the ct-26 to push more air, at the same boost as a 2JZ, the 7M's output will be equivelent to the 2JZ.
They didn't stop making the 7M becuase it was a bad motor. They stopped because they made someting better to replace it.
And like Santerianumero1 said, I did his 7MGTE swap for around $1,500. This came with a rebuilt motor, and a port an polish on the head. As soon as the motor was rebuilt, the swap only took 1/2 day. Hmm, probably a little easier than a 2JZ. Problem with the 2JZ, is that the turbo's won't fit. The strut tower is in the way. So, if you ever plan on doing a 2JZ swap in a MKII or MKIII, plan on going aftermarket turbo with custem header manifold, or move the engine over to the drivers side(I have seen this done before in a MKIII, looked like hell) Aslo, to fit the getrag V160 6speed, you will more than likely have to cut out the tranny tunnel. The 6 speed is much bigger than the W series tranny.
My opinion is stick with the 7M. It is a good motor. If it is used, replace the HG, resurface the head, and torque it down to 72 ft lbs with some ARP studs. Unless you really overheat the motor, you should never have to deal with a BHG again.
7M not being a good motor, BLAH!
First off, Toyota learned with the 7M, that the torque value on the head was wrong, and increased it on the 2JZ, in other words, they fixed the BHG problem with more torque.
Second, the 2JZ comes stock with forged pistons. This means you can run 500+ hp on stock internals
Third, the 2JZ comes stock with 550cc injectors, the 7M only 440cc.
Fourth, the twin turbo setup pushes more air than the ct-26
Fifth, the MKIV comes with a more efficient intercooler
Now, of course the overall design of the 2JZ is better than the 7M, but that comes with technology and improvents, such as a better oiling system, and better flowing head.
Now, if you port a 7M head, and drop in a set of 2JZ valves, run forged pistons, larger AFM, larger injectors, 2JZ IC, and get an upgrade on the ct-26 to push more air, at the same boost as a 2JZ, the 7M's output will be equivelent to the 2JZ.
They didn't stop making the 7M becuase it was a bad motor. They stopped because they made someting better to replace it.
And like Santerianumero1 said, I did his 7MGTE swap for around $1,500. This came with a rebuilt motor, and a port an polish on the head. As soon as the motor was rebuilt, the swap only took 1/2 day. Hmm, probably a little easier than a 2JZ. Problem with the 2JZ, is that the turbo's won't fit. The strut tower is in the way. So, if you ever plan on doing a 2JZ swap in a MKII or MKIII, plan on going aftermarket turbo with custem header manifold, or move the engine over to the drivers side(I have seen this done before in a MKIII, looked like hell) Aslo, to fit the getrag V160 6speed, you will more than likely have to cut out the tranny tunnel. The 6 speed is much bigger than the W series tranny.
My opinion is stick with the 7M. It is a good motor. If it is used, replace the HG, resurface the head, and torque it down to 72 ft lbs with some ARP studs. Unless you really overheat the motor, you should never have to deal with a BHG again.
7M not being a good motor, BLAH!
So you agree with me that the 2JZ is superior to the 7M, but in the next paragraph you recommend staying with the 7M! Where is the logic in that??
And as for completely rebuilding the 7M to match the specifications of the 2JZ - sure, it could be done, but what's the point? I could spend a lot of time and money turning the 7M into a reliable big-horsepower engine - or I could simply buy a 2JZ and bolt it in. Hmmm, methinks I'll go with the second option!
Each to their own of course.
And as for completely rebuilding the 7M to match the specifications of the 2JZ - sure, it could be done, but what's the point? I could spend a lot of time and money turning the 7M into a reliable big-horsepower engine - or I could simply buy a 2JZ and bolt it in. Hmmm, methinks I'll go with the second option!
Each to their own of course.
you keep saying bolt in? Where do you get off on saying bolt in.
The 2JZ IS NOT A BOLT IN.
GET IT
NOT A BOLT IN
NOT A BOLT IN
This is why you stick with the 7M
I can do a complete swap for $1500, less if I buy a used motor.
I could do a complete 7M swap for as little as $800. I couldn't even come close to buying a 2JZ for that price.
And one more time just in case you don't get it NORBI.
The 2JZ IS NOT A BOLT IN
The 2JZ IS NOT A BOLT IN.
GET IT
NOT A BOLT IN
NOT A BOLT IN
This is why you stick with the 7M
I can do a complete swap for $1500, less if I buy a used motor.
I could do a complete 7M swap for as little as $800. I couldn't even come close to buying a 2JZ for that price.
And one more time just in case you don't get it NORBI.
The 2JZ IS NOT A BOLT IN
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